Rear Subframe, Diff & Suspension Stuff (Video)

[Enoch]

Not really a "how to" video, but more of a 'this is what I did video" :doh:

Might be useful to some though;)

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[avocet]

Something I don't understand, where is the location to bolt the subframe back central, or is it a visual thing with bolts,or does the bmr lock out centre the frame.Could I drill and dowell the subrame before undoing it to get it back exactly right. Or even worse it's cocked from the factory to start with.
Great videos though!

 

[v8hgt]

Thanks Andy. Useful video, especially the tip about cleaning the bolts and threads of loctite.
So the Bmr lock out kit and the steeda alignment bushes ultimately tackle the same sub frame alignment issue by the looks of it. What advantages can you see in the Bmr solution vs the steeda solution? Looking at your misalignment beforehand has convinced me to do this job.

 

[Enoch]

I'll try and answer both

Avocet..... I started this job by loosening all 4 large subframe bolts by about 25mm, and letting the subframe just hang by its own weight on them.. As you can see, I'd say by the position of the bolts through the holes, my subframe was sat forward by around 10mm or so.

Personally I don't see that as a problem, as long as it's the same on both sides, and mine was.
What I don't like the idea of, is that it could just as easily be sitting scew whiff

But even then, it shouldn't be a problem, as long as the alignment of the wheels, is set correctly...

One of the reasons I've come to this conclusion, is that there is so much movement in the bushes Ie they're very soft, that I believe alignment would be constantly changing as you're driving anyway, and it's this that contributes to my feeling of a car that's easy to get unsettled, and doesn't feel planted especially at the rear...

I'm far from being an expert on suspension, but do have a good grasp of mechanical principles, and even an old thicko, like me:headbonk: can see that it appears the overriding design is with comfort in mind over road holding.. Which is fair enough.

I suspect that the above is why owners claim such a dramatic improvement in handling after fitting some of these kits.... Let's just hope it's not a placebo effect of spending money, and the HAVING to say it's an improvement to justify the spend:lol::lol:
Either way, for what it's worth, I will give an honest appraisal once I've driven the car again,but because I've done a few jobs all at once, we'll just have to guess which was the most effective:eyebulge:

Sorry for the long winded explanation, but in answer to your question, YES the BMR lockout kit centres the diff to the body holes.......It also clamps the whole lot back to the body... ( as do the original clamps) but the BMR ones are much more substantial.:clap2:
The STEEDA bushes do exactly the same, but rely on the original :ford: brackets for bolting back to the chassis....:amen:


V8HGT......yes, as above, they both do the same job, the main difference being BMR uses their own subframe to body bracket, to locate, and align.
STEEDA, use their location system to align only, and then rely on the original :ford: bracket to locate if that makes sense.....

But as I said above, I do believe the misalignment looks more "dramatic" than it is in reallity.....due to the fact that no matter how the subframe is sitting, in theory there should be enough adjustment for the wheels to be pointing in the right direction anyway....

For me, the benefit of either of these kits, is not that it bolts everything where it should be, but that it firms up the bushing.... I think this will be the most noticeable thing on the road.....
The other benefit is that, they're a relatively cheap way of "hopefully" feeling some improvement in the way the car drives

I will give an honest opinion of my findings, as and when the jobs done:cheers:

Oh I'd just like to add, that anyone tackling this, you'll need an M14 X 2.0 tap and die, to clean up the threads......
It is so easy to cross thread a bolt my starting it off on the scew, but there really is no need, if everything is in line, and you start them by hand........... It's just as easy to do it right:lol:

 

[McDoodle]

Useful video, cheers for that Enoch. I have both of these parts ready to put on the car as soon as I get a) the time b) some nice weather, so really useful to learn from your experience.

Thanks Andy. Useful video, especially the tip about cleaning the bolts and threads of loctite.
So the Bmr lock out kit and the steeda alignment bushes ultimately tackle the same sub frame alignment issue by the looks of it. What advantages can you see in the Bmr solution vs the steeda solution? Looking at your misalignment beforehand has convinced me to do this job.

I thought the BMR kit dealt with the sub-frame deflection and alignment, the Steeda kit just stiffened up the diff mounting bushes within the rear subframe but has nothing to do with the subframe alignment ..... the diff is bolted into the rear subframe, so the two mods are complementary rather than one replicating the function of the other. The Steeda inserts basically keep the diff centred and stop it from wa:censored:king around under load, but this has no impact on subframe (and hence rear wheel) alignment.

I would have thought if your subframe is out of alignment (but the wheel alignment I assume would be correct) before you fit the BMR kit, and then you align the subframe whilst fitting the kit you'd need the rear wheel alignment checked post fitting.

Ah! no. Sorry my mistake, you're talking about the Steeda IRS alignment kit, not the diff bush inserts :doh:. Would the Steeda alignment parts on their own stop the deflection in the rear subframe do you think? I suspect you'll say no?

 

[Enoch]

Spot on McDoodle..

The Steeda diff bushes just help stop the diff from twisting during heavy loads...my honest opinion, is that they're more use on a manual than an auto, as the auto has a smoother gear change anyway, but they ain't expensive, and are easy to fit, so whilst doing the rest of the work I fitted them to my Auto:headbonk:

The Steeda subframe alignment kit, is just simple bushes, that fit up into the SF mounting holes.....it will put it in the right place, but still relies on the original brackets to keep it there......
I wouldn't have bought these if I'd thought about it a bit more, but they did come in handy....

The BMR kit appears to do 3 things...
Firms up the SF bushes
Aligns the SF
Keeps it there, with the HD brackets...:clap2:

 

[McDoodle]

The Steeda subframe alignment kit, is just simple bushes, that fit up into the SF mounting holes.....it will put it in the right place, but still relies on the original brackets to keep it there......
I wouldn't have bought these if I'd thought about it a bit more, but they did come in handy....

Thanks for the feedback. From what I can see of the BMR lock-out kit it works by a) aligning the subframe by means of the sleeve on top of the large front brackets and b) by constraining the horizontal movement of the subframe by capturing the rubber bushes (front and rear) from the outside.

I can't quite make it out from the video, but do the Steeda IRS alignment bushes go through the subframe bracket, the subframe itself and up into the chassis? .... or do they not actually fit inside the bracket or chassis, just the subframe? Am I right in thinking the BMR kit does nothing for the rear subframe mounting in terms of an alignment sleeve, it just captures the rubber bushes to stop them deflecting? If so, could you use the Steeda alignment bushes for the rear mountings with the BMR kit?

As your subframe seemed to be mis-aligned have you had your rear wheel alignment checked since you fitted the BMR kit, and did it need adjusting? Cheers .....

 

[Enoch]

The Steeda bushes go through the subframe, at the 4 main mounting points. The bolts then go through the bushes....

Haven't done alignment yet.....still up on axle stands.....

Will be starting the front end mods tomorrow...

 

[Eclipsar]

Thanks for the video and I look forward to the next installment

 

[BMR Tech]

Awesome!

That is a whole lot of goodness!

Enjoy!

 

[Enoch]

Well.... I said I'd give an honest appraisal of my findings once the job was completed...

And here they are....these are obviously subjective, and are just my own seat of the pants impressions..:eyebulge:

1.. The BMR lockout kit seems to have made the rear end more planted, car has lost that floaty feel when pushing on, on bumpy or undulating roads.

2. Steeda progressive sport springs and ARB's... Big improvement over standard set up, even though I've got the ARB's set at the softer end of the scale, the body roll is much reduced, turn in feels sharper (although I always felt this was a strong point of the car anyway) so any improvement is hard to tell...the biggest difference comes from the lack of body roll.
The springs themselves have made no difference whatsoever, to ride comfort, they're very compliment and feel really nice, even on bumpy roads...

3. Steeda diff bushes..... These are now on the classifieds, they induced an annoying vibration at higher speeds, and it was somthing that I didn't expect and didn't like.... So I've removed them.... The fact that the vibration has gone, is evidence enough for me that it was the bushes that caused it...

 

[MrWolf]

You've got me second guessing whether or not to get the Steeda bushes fitted this Wednesday. I just don't know now

 

[Enoch]

You've got me second guessing whether or not to get the Steeda bushes fitted this Wednesday. I just don't know now

To be honest, I'm not really a fan of telling others what they should and shouldn't do..... Everyone is different, and what appeals to one may not appeal to another.... All I can do is report my findings.....it's not my first rodeo when it comes to modifying cars and bikes, but I do like to be honest with myself with regard to what I think works (for me) and what doesn't.....

I can honestly say I'd have no qualms whatsoever, in ripping the whole lot out if I felt it wasn't an improvement..

So with that said, I'm sure the bushes would be fine, without the BMR kit, but the 2 items together didn't work for me..... So I suppose it depends on what else you're doing:shrug:

Now the only advice I can give, is that if you've seen the video on YouTube where the diff is twisting back and forth under harsh acceleration, then like me, you'd have thought this is a bad thing, and the bushes will help eliminate it....

But thinking about it a bit more, that car was a manual, IMO the auto is far kinder to the diff under hard acceleration, the gear changes are smoother, and I suspect the same video on an Auto would show a different level of movement..

What I can say with out any doubt, is that it was the bushes causing my vibration... As soon as they were removed, the car feels like it did before I fitted them...... If it hadn't been to bad, I'd have probably left them in in the hope that I'd get used to it, but honestly it was that bad I couldn't wait to get them out....

I notice you have an auto also, so like I say, depending on what else you're doing, give it some thought as to do you need them or not..... If like me you haven't had major issues with wheel hop, then my suggestion would be not to fit them.....

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