Question for guys who actually have the the Roush Kit

[Stage_3]

That 138 mph trap speed is much higher than any run on a Roush cal that I have seen.

I agree.
But, he was using a race gas too, I believe.

 

[Azul Assasin]

I wonder how much the headers helped Brenspeed, considering they kept the Roush cal. The headers and losing the cats must have helped considering that 138 mph trap speed. That is pretty incredible.

Catless headers are good for about 60whp. That trap speed is pretty incredible though.

 

[brucelinc]

Catless headers are good for about 60whp. That trap speed is pretty incredible though.

I know headers are worth some HP but I thought you had to tune for them.

 

[Azul Assasin]

I know headers are worth some HP but I thought you had to tune for them.

You definitely don't have to tune for them although a tune would help maximize that setup. I personally was at a dyno with the same guy who picked up almost 90whp from catless headers and a full catback system. Same dyno but different days I'm sure the weather played a role in it but I was there for both days. It was about a month apart and in the summer last year. Still running on the roush tune with no issues.

 

[hlfbkd420]

I'm honestly calling BS on this one.. Not sure the angle that's being played but 138mph? No..

<puts on flame retardant suit>

 

[hlfbkd420]

I agree.
But, he was using a race gas too, I believe.

500, or 5000 posts ago, Or another thread ago, it was revealed that the Roush tune does NOT compensate for octane like the stock ford tune.. It doesn't do much above 93 octane.. Ford tune goes up to 96 or something... Don't shoot me if I'm off by a few decimals but...

 

[Jmtoast]

500, or 5000 posts ago, Or another thread ago, it was revealed that the Roush tune does NOT compensate for octane like the stock ford tune.. It doesn't do much above 93 octane.. Ford tune goes up to 96 or something... Don't shoot me if I'm off by a few decimals but...

Yeah 97 according to Boostane. On stage 1 I asked Roush and they said no that it didn’t but I’m not sure they know what their own tune does.

someone asked the question a couple pages back and one of the guys who know tuning said the Roush tune adjusted timing. One thing is for sure. Indiana where breenspeed is in January isn’t Arizona. I’d say that makes the biggest difference whether the trap speed is legit or not

 

[brucelinc]

I'm honestly calling BS on this one.. Not sure the angle that's being played but 138mph? No..

<puts on flame retardant suit>

I called it incredible.....but I was thinking unbelievable.

He said he mixed some 109 with 93 for safety. Even if the tune doesn't increase timing, the higher octane could prevent detonation if the 93 wasn't quite sufficient. I doubt the increased octane accounts for the 138 mph.

What about the headers? If the 138 is legit, they must make a helluva difference. I didn't expect that much without tuning for them but I don't know.

We don't know exactly when or where this run occurred. There were other cars there so it was either a test/tune or track rental. The track workers were not dressed like it was a cold winter day. Grass was green. Are tracks open in Indiana this time of year?

 

[engineermike]

The roush cal commands 18-19 deg spark at wot, depending on exact load. It will add up to 3 deg if no knock is sensed, but has a hard limit at 21.5. If you’ve ever logged a supercharged gen3 on 91-93, you know that pump gas won’t get you anywhere near 21.5 deg. Fwiw this limit is set much higher than whipples.

When my 2018 car was stock I was able to hit the timing max on just 93, so it wouldn’t benefit from more octane.

I wouldn’t get too hung up on OAR being active. OAR just gets the starting point closer to the knock limit when you change loads or speeds. It still advances until it sees knock, backs off, then advances again with oar on or off.

 

[Jmtoast]

The roush cal commands 18-19 deg spark at wot, depending on exact load. It will add up to 3 deg if no knock is sensed, but has a hard limit at 21.5. If you’ve ever logged a supercharged gen3 on 91-93, you know that pump gas won’t get you anywhere near 21.5 deg. Fwiw this limit is set much higher than whipples.

When my 2018 car was stock I was able to hit the timing max on just 93, so it wouldn’t benefit from more octane.

I wouldn’t get too hung up on OAR being active. OAR just gets the starting point closer to the knock limit when you change loads or speeds. It still advances until it sees knock, backs off, then advances again with oar on or off.

What about with boostane mixed to say 103 (random) octane? Any benefit? Also what is your opinion on the catless headers with the Roush cal?

 

[brucelinc]

So, Mike, to boil it down, for the Roush cal to advance to 21.5, a mix of boostane or 109 is probably needed? Unlikely to advance that far on just high quality 93?

 

[engineermike]

So, Mike, to boil it down, for the Roush cal to advance to 21.5, a mix of boostane or 109 is probably needed? Unlikely to advance that far on just high quality 93?

To get to 21.5 would require a pretty strong dose of Boostane. Ms109 would probably get it there. No way 93 alone is getting there. That’s e85 numbers.

 

[engineermike]

What about with boostane mixed to say 103 (random) octane? Any benefit? Also what is your opinion on the catless headers with the Roush cal?

More octane will definitely benefit your roush phase 2, up to about 100. Beyond that, you’re just paying for safety.

Catless headers benefit roots/screw/TVs blown engines different than what most people think. You’re really just getting a reduction in pumping losses and reduction in knock. The air flow rate through the engine is virtually unchanged. If you’re already running max timing due to octane, then you just improve pumping losses.

 

[Stage_3]

I'm honestly calling BS on this one.. Not sure the angle that's being played but 138mph? No..
<puts on flame retardant suit>

I'm with you.
Is the Roush calibration compensating for the way higher octane?? I always thought it wouldn't.
Something seems fishy here.

 

[hlfbkd420]

I'm with you.
Is the Roush calibration compensating for the way higher octane?? I always thought it wouldn't.
Something seems fishy here.

138mph with just headers on the Roush tune is beating almost anything I have seen from PBD or VMP.