ON3 Turbo Kit recommendations?

[Angrey]

I know a guy that has the top mount twins. The installer is about 6 miles away from where I grew up. I talked to him about getting one installed before the on3 single showed up. He literally said to me, "I will never install another on3 turbo kit at this shop. It's not worth the cost to the customer, not worth my time, and not worth the headache."

So yea save a little on the front end and pay more on the back end.

If paramount speed didn't want 9k for a turbo-less kit I'd been all over that one.

Once you do a couple, it's easy breezy after that. My local crew loves On3 and they have about a half dozen guys running either twin top mounts or big singles. The piping is all custom at the shop and a guy who side hustles helps with the other stuff. Ballin' on a budget. Buddy of mine has twin top mounts and has made an assload of power (pretty far into 4 digits). The kits with the right component options work. But it's a bit like flying Spirit or Frontier. If you don't know what you're getting into the first time is traumatic

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[illtal]

Once you do a couple, it's easy breezy after that. My local crew loves On3 and they have about a half dozen guys running either twin top mounts or big singles. The piping is all custom at the shop and a guy who side hustles helps with the other stuff. Ballin' on a budget. Buddy of mine has twin top mounts and has made an assload of power (pretty far into 4 digits). The kits with the right component options work. But it's a bit like flying Spirit or Frontier. If you don't know what you're getting into the first time is traumatic

Ah, Well if you're going to do that then yeah just toss out the "undesirable parts" and make your own.
I just bought the cx racing hot side and built my own cold side. Comp Turbos are expensive though.

Yea you fly spirit or frontier when you get to the plane, you find out they charge you for breathing plane oxygen too. You will need to apply this to On3 lolol.

 

[Cue_5oh]

Once you do a couple, it's easy breezy after that. My local crew loves On3 and they have about a half dozen guys running either twin top mounts or big singles. The piping is all custom at the shop and a guy who side hustles helps with the other stuff. Ballin' on a budget. Buddy of mine has twin top mounts and has made an assload of power (pretty far into 4 digits). The kits with the right component options work. But it's a bit like flying Spirit or Frontier. If you don't know what you're getting into the first time is traumatic

A lot of valid points, I really appreciate the insight. I heard of a lot of fitting issues with the downpipes having horrible fitment and leaks as well, I have experience with builds luckily even though this is my first American car (funny enough I work for FoMoCo and never owned a Ford or any USDM until now lol). I plan for this to net me the 800 whp on E85 I am looking for and to just enjoy the car for about a year or two at that level, then expand further into the platform if I still enjoy it at that point and possibly look into building a separate engine to swap in and a better trans. For me I am just looking for the torque of a turbo build and the power that is limitless that superchargers can't produce without having to spend an excessive amount of money as well, but also there are not many kits on the single side that are purchasable. If I had an accessible garage to where I could decommission the car I would probably end up buying front facing headers and build my own kit from the ground up, but alas I do not and it doesn't seem to be coming in the future anytime soon. The biggest expense I plan on spending is regarding the fuel system and any boost controlling electronic bits. Id always rather run rich than lean, even though lean can be mean on the strip haha

 

[illtal]

A lot of valid points, I really appreciate the insight. I heard of a lot of fitting issues with the downpipes having horrible fitment and leaks as well, I have experience with builds luckily even though this is my first American car (funny enough I work for FoMoCo and never owned a Ford or any USDM until now lol). I plan for this to net me the 800 whp on E85 I am looking for and to just enjoy the car for about a year or two at that level, then expand further into the platform if I still enjoy it at that point and possibly look into building a separate engine to swap in and a better trans. For me I am just looking for the torque of a turbo build and the power that is limitless that superchargers can't produce without having to spend an excessive amount of money as well, but also there are not many kits on the single side that are purchasable. If I had an accessible garage to where I could decommission the car I would probably end up buying front facing headers and build my own kit from the ground up, but alas I do not and it doesn't seem to be coming in the future anytime soon. The biggest expense I plan on spending is regarding the fuel system and any boost controlling electronic bits. Id always rather run rich than lean, even though lean can be mean on the strip haha

If you want to have a go at making something, there are front facing headers that are made by fab shops that doesn't impact the AC. I found them while searching around for hotside only kits.

It would probably take the same effort and it seems as though you're not afraid to weld and/or make your own bits

 

[Cue_5oh]

If you want to have a go at making something, there are front facing headers that are made by fab shops that doesn't impact the AC. I found them while searching around for hotside only kits.

It would probably take the same effort and it seems as though you're not afraid to weld and/or make your own bits

I can weld albeit not the best at it, I can do it however. It is an idea I think about doing to cut cost and be able to piece exactly what I want, my only discrepancy is my current set up, I would need the weekend at minimum and if the job isn't done by then I have problems and will have to push the car out which would have nowhere to go :/ maybe best to just wait it out a couple months until I can set aside the time for it.

 

[illtal]

I can weld albeit not the best at it, I can do it however. It is an idea I think about doing to cut cost and be able to piece exactly what I want, my only discrepancy is my current set up, I would need the weekend at minimum and if the job isn't done by then I have problems and will have to push the car out which would have nowhere to go :/ maybe best to just wait it out a couple months until I can set aside the time for it.

Ah, I see.
I was wondering why no one has attempted a big boy bottom mount .

 

[Timbuck]

hi. Food for thought for sure , I recently brought a s550 here in Australia. 2017 5.0L one owner 17,000kms ( shed queen).
I’d 100% be interested in a single mid mount set up. Something like a G42-1200 compact or one of the oil less set ups 70mm+ size.
our cars in Oz are set out a little different. brake cylinder , ABS module , steering all on opposite side.
looking at it , I think it it would be relatively easy process To mid mount. Single.
by the looks , if I did an alternator relocation I could run cold side from the turbo back under headers ( passenger side) Maybe a custom made engine mount to allow inlet pipe to pass through easy.
Just looking for a fun 650 rwhp responsive daily driver set up.

anyway. I guess that might be a new thread discussion.

cheers from australia

Tim.

 

[Racinjason65]

A lot of valid points, I really appreciate the insight. I heard of a lot of fitting issues with the downpipes having horrible fitment and leaks as well, I have experience with builds luckily even though this is my first American car (funny enough I work for FoMoCo and never owned a Ford or any USDM until now lol). I plan for this to net me the 800 whp on E85 I am looking for and to just enjoy the car for about a year or two at that level, then expand further into the platform if I still enjoy it at that point and possibly look into building a separate engine to swap in and a better trans. For me I am just looking for the torque of a turbo build and the power that is limitless that superchargers can't produce without having to spend an excessive amount of money as well, but also there are not many kits on the single side that are purchasable. If I had an accessible garage to where I could decommission the car I would probably end up buying front facing headers and build my own kit from the ground up, but alas I do not and it doesn't seem to be coming in the future anytime soon. The biggest expense I plan on spending is regarding the fuel system and any boost controlling electronic bits. Id always rather run rich than lean, even though lean can be mean on the strip haha

Curious about your opinion that a single turbo kit can make the torque of a supercharger with ”limitless” power that a supercharger can’t match. What single turbo do you plan on going with that has no lag and can support 1200+ rear wheel like an out of the box Whipple can do with no expensive upgrades? I paid $8,500 for a Stage 2 Whipple kit on sale, I installed one on my 20 GT in my garage in a weekend with no fabrication, no issues and it doesn’t require maintenance for 100k miles and makes 732 at the tires on 91 octane. On my GT350 with headers and full exhaust that Whipple make 757 (knock limited) on 91 and with the same 3.6 pulley on e85 makes 910 @13 psi. The GT is apart again now for engine, trans and rear end upgrades and I plan on making 1200 ish to the wheels with the Whipple 3.0.

 

[illtal]

hi. Food for thought for sure , I recently brought a s550 here in Australia. 2017 5.0L one owner 17,000kms ( shed queen).
I’d 100% be interested in a single mid mount set up. Something like a G42-1200 compact or one of the oil less set ups 70mm+ size.
our cars in Oz are set out a little different. brake cylinder , ABS module , steering all on opposite side.
looking at it , I think it it would be relatively easy process To mid mount. Single.
by the looks , if I did an alternator relocation I could run cold side from the turbo back under headers ( passenger side) Maybe a custom made engine mount to allow inlet pipe to pass through easy.
Just looking for a fun 650 rwhp responsive daily driver set up.

anyway. I guess that might be a new thread discussion.

cheers from australia

Tim.

You will need a big a/r to make a mid mounted t4 housing turbo to work on a coyote. Something like a 1.45. I don't know if any housing bigger than a t4 will fit. Twins can poke out depending on the design of the header.

 

[Timbuck]

You will need a big a/r to make a mid mounted t4 housing turbo to work on a coyote. Something like a 1.45. I don't know if any housing bigger than a t4 will fit. Twins can poke out depending on the design of the header.

Yeah I agree illtal. I haven’t punched the numbers through a calc yet , these new turbo’s sure flow nice. I read on the garrett website they actually recommend one for a coyote so I guess they have done the numbers on airflow LBS/m. . I should contact them and ask if they know of someone who has used one on a coyote. The G42-1450 is just too big I think.
On the 1200 , I think the biggest AR is t4 1.28 , that might achieve my hp goal With out too much back pressure. No idea as of yet.
anyway I’m only kicking a can down the road at this stage. Just enjoying the car atm. Going to start doing skid pan days and short track days and get a feel for it and have some fun before bolting a hair dryer to it And all the other mods needed To hold things together.
I haven’t been under the car yet to measure what exact area there is to play with Next to the gearbox. Also I guess a Little bit of tunnel modification , cut and shut to make some more room might help Fitting a single under there. if you look at The 1200 specs on garrett it’s quite a compact turbo.
I do like the idea of front bar mount , like the older hellion single kit.

cheers Tim.

 

[illtal]

Yeah I agree illtal. I haven’t punched the numbers through a calc yet , these new turbo’s sure flow nice. I read on the garrett website they actually recommend one for a coyote so I guess they have done the numbers on airflow LBS/m. . I should contact them and ask if they know of someone who has used one on a coyote. The G42-1450 is just too big I think.
On the 1200 , I think the biggest AR is t4 1.28 , that might achieve my hp goal With out too much back pressure. No idea as of yet.
anyway I’m only kicking a can down the road at this stage. Just enjoying the car atm. Going to start doing skid pan days and short track days and get a feel for it and have some fun before bolting a hair dryer to it And all the other mods needed To hold things together.
I haven’t been under the car yet to measure what exact area there is to play with Next to the gearbox. Also I guess a Little bit of tunnel modification , cut and shut to make some more room might help Fitting a single under there. if you look at The 1200 specs on garrett it’s quite a compact turbo.
I do like the idea of front bar mount , like the older hellion single kit.

cheers Tim.

The problem isnt that the turbo can fit and all the piping can fit. The problem is that you have a SINGLE outlet of ~3 in with that setup. This is why these (single) kits always run dumps.

You would still have a problem with back pressure due to the sizing of the downpipes which have to be used. As you increase RPM at any power level the engine consumes more and more air, and thus there will be more exhaust. You'll be trying to put all of that through a single ~3" down pipe.

Realistically the best setup would be a T6 with a smaller AR like .96 - 1.00 that would give good response, and the larger housing would still be able to move gas.

When you are looking at the garrett maps, look at the turbine gas flow maps that they provide. Garrett is the only company that provides this.

Also there are companies that make various housings for all kinds off turbos. definitely they won't be as nice as the investment housings (stainless steel) but they will get the job done.

This is why the twin setup is good, you have two 3" downpipes, and little to no restriction with a full 3" exhaust. The restriction if any would come from the header design, and the AR choice. that's it.

 

[Angrey]

There's no answer to all prayers. A big single is great(er) for dedicated drag applications but needs to spool (more than twins) so requires more sophistication with either manual or automated brake boosting.

Big singles are nasty, but the car has more limitations in that it has to be "ready" in the proper gear, rpm, built up boost, etc. A positive displacement blower or even a centri are much more forgiving in that regard (but come with other drawbacks). Every system has it's pros and cons.

 

[illtal]

The problem isnt that the turbo can fit and all the piping can fit. The problem is that you have a SINGLE outlet of ~3 in with that setup. This is why these kits always run dumps.

You would still have a problem with back pressure due to the sizing of the downpipes which have to be used. As you increase RPM at any power level the engine consumes more and more air, and thus there will be more exhaust. You'll be trying to put all of that through a single ~3" down pipe.

Realistically the best setup would be a T6 with a smaller AR like .96 - 1.00 that would give good response, and the larger housing would still be able to move gas.

When you are looking at the garrett maps, look at the turbine gas flow maps that they provide. Garrett is the only company that provides this.

Also there are companies that make various housings for all kinds off turbos. definitely they won't be as nice as the investment housings (stainless steel) but they will get the job done.

There's no answer to all prayers. A big single is great(er) for dedicated drag applications but needs to spool (more than twins) so requires more sophistication with either manual or automated brake boosting.

Big singles are nasty, but the car has more limitations in that it has to be "ready" in the proper gear, rpm, built up boost, etc. A positive displacement blower or even a centri are much more forgiving in that regard (but come with other drawbacks). Every system has it's pros and cons.

electronics are the answer to drag applications, hell most all motorsport applications can benefit from more control electronics. it's a neverending money pit this sport

 

[Timbuck]

Absolutely. Everything is a compromise and goal posts chance all the time. I just like the idea of keeping heat out of the engine bay And the sound on a single. Just thinking out loud if a hidden single would be an option.

This is one of my favourite ozzy video’s showing just that , bigger is not better In this case at the power level needed. Our boy and steer as well

 

[illtal]

Absolutely. Everything is a compromise and goal posts chance all the time. I just like the idea of keeping heat out of the engine bay And the sound on a single. Just thinking out loud if a hidden single would be an option.

This is one of my favourite ozzy video’s showing just that , bigger is not better In this case at the power level needed. Our boy and steer as well

I'm assuming he used similar ARs to illustrate, but it was dumb to put a 480 on a car making 400 wheel.

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