OAR deviation concern

[jbailer]

The joys and perils of modifying a factory perfect car...

It could have been just a learning phase as that was the first WOT pull I did after the flash. We'll find out soon.

The piston in mine seemed fairly worn after only 7 months of use. There might be a more permanent lubrication solution for something like this, might just have to dig around on the internet.

Haha you are generous with it being a factory perfect car! I think Ford did a particularly crappy job with the tuning, especially the power at the top end and if you have an automatic, the shifting schedule. I think Ford Performance did a great job at making the car perform more like it should, not creating a monster or blowing anyone away by any means but in general, making it more drivable.

In reading something I learned about the ECU learning after any KAM reset, it's recommended to let it idle for a bit with the AC on as a first step to start the learning process and eliminate some of the drivability issues as it learns. I'd never heard that before. I'm pretty sure that came from the Helm technical manual.

I've sent a question to GFB's support asking about lubrication of the piston. I'll share what I get if any response.

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[CustomS550]

I had to do a similar relearning procedure on my previous RX8. By perfect I mean in intention by its engineers and by its assembly off of the factory line

I believe the VW guys were having some issues with the DV+ drying up, too.

 

[jbailer]

It's hard to tell what's going on in the stock log, the tuned log looks good. In the stock log, it isn't showing time and throttle position. The throttle position you're logging isn't physical, it's what is delivered. So if you were on the pedal 100%, it was pulling for some reason and that explains the boost dropping.

What are you using to log? If it's a phone with an OBD2 app for the stock, try closing anything else on the phone and make sure the phone isn't sync'd to the car. Anything will slow down the logging. Next only log as few parameters as you absolutely need. Every extra parameter slows it down. Notice the string of like 8 or so RPM the same in a row? What happens with most loggers is if they don't get an update for that PID, they will just repeat the value they had last reported.

With the data there, I couldn't really see anything to do with boost I'd be concerned about.

 

[stevnoof]

what tuning device are you using? this was full throttle the whole pull? There is no data for knock, oar, or ignition corrections? why is it so choppy and not linear at all is it the device you use to datalog?

 

[CustomS550]

Thanks for the feedback. I don't plan on sticking with the stock tune for long given all of the aftermarket parts the car has on it. The tuner should be getting back to me sometime next week i'm told.

 

[CustomS550]

I've replaced the filtered stock tune log with the raw data - same as the tuned log so we're comparing the same data.

 

[CustomS550]

what tuning device are you using? this was full throttle the whole pull? There is no data for knock, oar, or ignition corrections? why is it so choppy and not linear at all is it the device you use to datalog?

That looks very neat, thanks man!

Unfortunately, the tuner I have doesn't offer logging so I have to rely on torque pro.

 

[jbailer]

That looks very neat, thanks man!

Unfortunately, the tuner I have doesn't offer logging so I have to rely on torque pro.

Oh that explains a lot. There is a different PID for the physical throttle position, I don't know what it is though and don't use Torque because I'm on iPhone. I REALLY wish there was a good standalone datalogger available. The Cobb AP is fantastic for datalogging but you have to actually install it to the car which minimally loads a simulated factory tune. You're logging 22 PIDs which is asking a LOT out of a phone OBD2 app. You'll probably at best get about 50/second if you have a good quality OBD2 adapter and phone. So you have to really trim down the PIDs you log so it's more meaningful.

 

[stevnoof]

So LOR is the OAR? nothing changed during the pull so that is fine, I don't know why the throttle is doing whatever its doing though unless you are doing that physically

 

[CustomS550]

So LOR is the OAR? nothing changed during the pull so that is fine, I don't know why the throttle is doing whatever its doing though unless you are doing that physically

That's correct, and that was all done by the ECU. Should probably not expect anything else with the aftermarket mods.

 

[jbailer]

So LOR is the OAR? nothing changed during the pull so that is fine, I don't know why the throttle is doing whatever its doing though unless you are doing that physically

Yes, LOR (Learned Relative Octane Adjustment) is the actual PID in the OBD2. The throttle is a relative position the ECU is adjusting to.

That's correct, and that was all done by the ECU. Should probably not expect anything else with the aftermarket mods.

You're right. Especially if you have an aftermarket WGA, the ECU will be fighting it. Personally if you have many aftermarket mods, I wouldn't be pushing it until you get your tune back in it.

Out of curiosity, how does your tuner get logs from you?

 

[CustomS550]

You're right. Especially if you have an aftermarket WGA, the ECU will be fighting it. Personally if you have many aftermarket mods, I wouldn't be pushing it until you get your tune back in it.

Out of curiosity, how does your tuner get logs from you?

Stock WGA. Their device doesn't offer logging and they don't ask for any as everything is pre-tuned based on their fleet of vehicles. But I sent them one anyway

 

[jbailer]

Stock WGA. Their device doesn't offer logging and they don't ask for any as everything is pre-tuned based on their fleet of vehicles. But I sent them one anyway

They don't ask for one? :shrug:

So it's a canned tune which are done pretty safely by not pushing the numbers. Every engine is a little different though and like you, I'd still like to send a tune for peace of mind. I don't know how I missed this before:

My mods are: CAI, IC, TBE (Catted w/ 3 HF mufflers), DV+ BPV adapter, stock plugs gapped to .028.

None of those mods require a tune. I'm a little more confused now why your stock tune isn't more well behaved. I'm not sure if Torque has the feature or not but can you reset the KAM? If so, I think I'd start there, give it time for a decent re-learn and then try again. Your mods don't require a tune and you should be good.

If anything, I'd be even more concerned now about your gas. If you're getting knock which would explain the OAR (LOR), that would definitely explain what we saw in the stock datalog you provided.

 

[TEXAS HEAT]

They don't ask for one? :shrug:

So it's a canned tune which are done pretty safely by not pushing the numbers. Every engine is a little different though and like you, I'd still like to send a tune for peace of mind. I don't know how I missed this before:



None of those mods require a tune. I'm a little more confused now why your stock tune isn't more well behaved. I'm not sure if Torque has the feature or not but can you reset the KAM? If so, I think I'd start there, give it time for a decent re-learn and then try again. Your mods don't require a tune and you should be good.

I disagree with you on this... He has an aftermarket downpipe, even with a cat it will flow significantly more than the stock downpipe. This changes the boost and spool characteristics. If the tune has not been adjusted to compensate for this change, you can experience an overboost condition, throttle closures, potential knock events and negative ignition corrections which directly impact OAR. The factory tune deals with boost overshoots by closing the throttle and retarding timing. I'm not saying that this is why the OP is having his issues, but I don't think you can rule it out either.

I'm curious which tune/tuning device the OP is using? If it is a canned tune that hasn't been adjusted for the downpipe, this could be part of the problem.

 

[jbailer]

I disagree with you on this... He has an aftermarket downpipe, even with a cat it will flow significantly more than the stock downpipe. This changes the boost and spool characteristics. If the tune has not been adjusted to compensate for this change, you can experience an overboost condition, throttle closures, potentially knock and negative ignition corrections which directly impact OAR. I'm not saying that this is why the OP is having his issues, but I don't think you can rule it out either.

You're very possibly correct. I'm going by experiences people have shared in the past. The general consensus from early development was if you got an O/R DP, it was significant enough to require a tune to compensate but if it had a cat at all, even high flow, a tune wasn't needed. I can't say for sure because i haven't experienced it. The DP would be the only component that would require a tune, if that...

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