New high flow IC pump for Whipple Kits

[evo8904]

Thanks Whipple for making another awesome product! I'm get some track times next month after I get a clutch

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[Whipple SC]

A PD with a dedicated IAT sensor in the manifold post compressor/intercooler (hot side). We actually installed two stand alone units (different brands) along side the IAT sensor triggering the ECU.







And that's the rub. We originally ran ours with the sensor in the MAF and a second sensor in the manifold wired through the IMRC connector. The post compressor sensor was reading WAY wrong. At the time Lund told us to abandon the IMRC method and wire the IAT sensor in the manifold to the wiring that goes/went to the IAT sensor in the MAF. He fiddled around with how it was sampled from that point (it reads on the dash and the N Gauge) and it's a lot closer to reality, but it's still not 100% right. We no longer have the IAT being sampled at the MAF. But at least we're getting a close-ish reading post compressor/intercooler where it counts.





It responds instantly. But it can take up to 8 seconds to show what the actual temp is. For example. If you whack it with a 200deg air charge it will start to show you a temp rise instantly. But it will take up to 8 seconds to show the entire 200deg. So if you make a 4sec dyno pull with a 200deg air charge you may only see a 150deg reading. Which is of course not accurate and could be problematic if stuff is on the edge.



A friend of mine (a tuner) had suspected this for a long time and last year finally set up conditions to test it. It's a thing.

How were you running through the imrc and reading temp? That has to be written in the code to allocate that pin for temp reading. I can assure you those readings are accurate.

As for sensor response time, they are far faster then 50deg off over a 100deg rise in 4 seconds. Of course this depends on the type of sensor. A k-type sensor with an open element is extremely fast an accurate and is best for development.




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[Department Of Boost]

http://www.lethalperformance.com/shop-now/vehicle-selector/ford-mustang-v8-gt/2015-ford-mustang-gt/supercharger-upgrades/whipple/vmp-2015-2016-mustang-gt-5-0l-iat-harness-and-brass-air-temp-sensor-for-pd-blowers.html


^^^ This is what I had to use for my Lund tune so that we could see the after blower temps. Lund wouldn't finish my tune prior to me installing this.

This is effectively what we ended up doing in the end. But when we did it there was no kit so we had to make it from scratch. Lund supplied us with the wiring schematic.

 

[Department Of Boost]

How were you running through the imrc and reading temp? That has to be written in the code to allocate that pin for temp reading. I can assure you those readings are accurate.

We originally wired into the IMRC but when it came time to tune Lund was not able to get that pin allocated for temp reading. Or reading correctly. Maybe he doesn't have the software access you do???

I can assure you that the way we were hooked up/programmed those temps were not reading correctly. We had two additional stand alone IAT sensors/gauges to check it against. The reading was WAY off.

As for sensor response time, they are far faster then 50deg off over a 100deg rise in 4 seconds. Of course this depends on the type of sensor. A k-type sensor with an open element is extremely fast an accurate and is best for development.

Correct, the sensors that are used with PD blowers (I refer to them as "bulb style" for no reason in particular) that you find in most kits, GT500's, etc are nearly instantaneous. The sensors built into MAF sensors (I refer to them as "vane style" for no reason in particular) are very slow to stabilize and show the actual max temp. Maybe the sensor in the MAF's are updated/different in 2015+ cars, IDK. But all of them before won't read full IAT until up to 8 seconds.

 

[Grim12]

Thanks Whipple for making another awesome product! I'm get some track times next month after I get a clutch

What clutch are you running now?

 

[Whipple SC]

We originally wired into the IMRC but when it came time to tune Lund was not able to get that pin allocated for temp reading. Or reading correctly. Maybe he doesn't have the software access you do???

I can assure you that the way we were hooked up/programmed those temps were not reading correctly. We had two additional stand alone IAT sensors/gauges to check it against. The reading was WAY off.


Correct, the sensors that are used with PD blowers (I refer to them as "bulb style" for no reason in particular) that you find in most kits, GT500's, etc are nearly instantaneous. The sensors built into MAF sensors (I refer to them as "vane style" for no reason in particular) are very slow to stabilize and show the actual max temp. Maybe the sensor in the MAF's are updated/different in 2015+ cars, IDK. But all of them before won't read full IAT until up to 8 seconds.

What I'm asking is how are you referencing the temp from the imrc channel of its not able to be read without the specific pid info? To be clear this reading is very accurate for our cal and is accurate if you have the pid info. The temp reading is of OEM quality and reacts and reads exactly like any ecoboost engine.

As for temp response time, I think you are confusing that with sample rate. The speed in which each sensor is updated varies depending on cal and there importance level. A proper iat2 sensor will have an increased sample rate compared to iat1 because its importance level and variation can change far quicker and more frequent.


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[Department Of Boost]

What I'm asking is how are you referencing the temp from the imrc channel of its not able to be read without the specific pid info?

I don't know why it's not reading correctly. That's a tuner thing, and I'm no tuner.

Lund couldn't get it to work.

To be clear this reading is very accurate for our cal and is accurate if you have the pid info.

I'm guessing it's because you have deeper access in to the ECU.

The temp reading is of OEM quality and reacts and reads exactly like any ecoboost engine.

Yes, the IAT2 sensors are accurate (not perfect though) and they react almost instantaneously to temperature changes.

As for temp response time, I think you are confusing that with sample rate.

I'm now assuming we're talking about IAT1's/MAF temp readings.

I'm not confusing them. What I'm referring to is completely different.

The speed in which each sensor is updated varies depending on cal and there importance level.

Correct. But no matter how often you update/prioritize the MAF temp sensor doesn't react to the temp change any faster. The issue isn't sample rate. It's how fast the actual sensor element reacts to change. And it's slow to see big temperature fluctuations..

A proper iat2 sensor will have an increased sample rate compared to iat1 because its importance level and variation can change far quicker and more frequent.

Correct.


The "problem" with the IAT1/MAF sensors is the actual sensing element doesn't "catch up" to extreme temp changes for a long time. In PD blower applications it's not a big deal because the air at the IAT1 doesn't change in temp much or very quickly. If the IAT1/MAF sensor is used in a blow through turbo/centri application it's a different story.

A friend of mine suspected this and did a very elaborate test to confirm it. He installed an additional IAT sensor (IAT2 "bulb" style sensor) at the MAF on a centri/blow through combo to see what the MAF/IAT sensor told him vs what the additional sensor did. The MAF/IAT sensor took up to 8 seconds to stabilize where the IAT2 style sensor in the same location was instantaneous. No amount of prioritization or sample rate trickery changed how long it took the IAT1/MAF sensor to stabilize.

In the PD universe it's a non issue. It is in the Centri world though. The Procharger Tech guy on this board knows all about it and commented that when they do instrumented testing they run an additional IAT2 style sensor at the MAF so they can get correct/timely information.

I do not know if the slow temp sensing MAF element in the S550's reacts like the previous generation cars. This information is based on prior model years. Maybe Ford started using faster stabilizing IAT sensors in the MAF starting with the S550. Someone would have to test it to know for sure.

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