New EPA regs coming phaseout gas engines

[Gregs24]

Honestly, guy, this isn't even hard. the 100% effective was all over. How many links do you want?

Sadly they too missed the crucial difference - you know that because they were quoting the very study you posted saying efficacy. Not surprising the MSM get things wrong but they are surely not the reputable source somebody like you would use?

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[Gregs24]

People like you always want to hang your hat on a specialty. I don't *have* to know 1 thing about epidemiology. I know about the scientific method. I understand what it is to create, test and use a part in the field. I know when someone is playing by the rules and when they're not.

You are exposed.

That is where you are completely wrong.

That one sentence demonstrates the problem - You know better even in a subject that you have no training in. If you really believe that then you are in big trouble. Perhaps you would like to explain supersonic airflow in engine intakes, or the Higgs boson particle or does your expertise not allow that?

You see there are things that you don't know, that you don't even know about.

How do you make conclusions about epidemiology when you haven't done inferential statistics or other types of analysis. Many years ago I spent many weeks learning statistics as part of my degree so that I could read and understand scientific papers, without that knowledge you simply cannot understand some of the stuff out there. I'm not an epidemiologist (although I do have some knowledge of the subject) but I wouldn't be happy to make anything other than very basic comments on the subject because I know that I don't have the skills to do it.

You don't seem to have that safety valve fitted? What a bizarre comment to say you don't need to know anything about epidemiology in order to make a valid comment on epidemiology - you do realise how stupid that sounds?

 

[TeeLew]

The central part of your post there was the 100% effectiveness.

No, the central part of my post was the insincerity with which the vaccines were sold to the public. You want to grab onto the difference between efficacy and effectiveness to somehow justify the subterfuge and inflict some mortal wound on me. You've failed. They were sold as 100% EFFECTIVE and that's what all the talking heads were all pushing. We all know this. From the President to the local news, the message was consistent.

You do make 1 interesting point. The study says one thing and then the politicians use that to claim something similar, but significantly different. This is the exact same thing that happens in climate change, which is why I originally drew the parallel.

Here's what I don't have to have a medical specialty to know.

• If the vaccine was just produced for a newly emergent illness and it's experimental, then there is not even a potential for long term test data.
• If the manufacturers of the vaccine cannot be sued for problems with the vaccine they have less motivation to make it safe.
• The Covid vaccine was worth $36+ Billion to Pfizer in 2021 alone.
• Natural Immunity was always the best protection (still is) until there was money to be made vaccinating
• The introduction of Covid passports and travel apps removed any semblance of personal freedom. We may not be owned by the state, but we're definitely controlled by it.

This is all just common sense. It takes no special degree or education.

 

[Gregs24]

No, the central part of my post was the insincerity with which the vaccines were sold to the public. You want to grab onto the difference between efficacy and effectiveness to somehow justify the subterfuge and inflict some mortal wound on me. You've failed. They were sold as 100% EFFECTIVE and that's what all the talking heads were all pushing. We all know this. From the President to the local news, the message was consistent.

You do make 1 interesting point. The study says one thing and then the politicians use that to claim something similar, but significantly different. This is the exact same thing that happens in climate change, which is why I originally drew the parallel.

Here's what I don't have to have a medical specialty to know.

• If the vaccine was just produced for a newly emergent illness and it's experimental, then there is not even a potential for long term test data.
• If the manufacturers of the vaccine cannot be sued for problems with the vaccine they have less motivation to make it safe.
• The Covid vaccine was worth $36+ Billion to Pfizer in 2021 alone.
• Natural Immunity was always the best protection (still is) until there was money to be made vaccinating
• The introduction of Covid passports and travel apps removed any semblance of personal freedom. We may not be owned by the state, but we're definitely controlled by it.

This is all just common sense. It takes no special degree or education.

Assuming you don't die of course! The vaccine was there to reduce the severity of disease and minimise deaths - which it did. Natural immunity only helps those that survive the illness.

Anyway I'm not going to spend any more time clogging up an already way off topic thread and certainly not drifting into climate change where you clearly have a similarly politically blinkered view. I would suggest you keep a close eye on the UK Covid Inquiry as it is EXACTLY what you say isn't happening (but is) and is open to all those involved ,from the PM to experts, to families of victims to businesses that suffered during lockdown to those that were saved by various controls and on and on.

You almost certainly will not follow it because you already have a cast iron opinion based on incorrect assumptions and you simply don't want to know the real evidence and information.

One final thing - Covid (as with climate change) is a global issue and you would do well to look outside your politically divided nation to places that don't blame everything on 'the state' or 'government over reach' - your politics mean nothing to Covid and funnily enough there were many disparate countries that had to deal with the same problem as the US. Some did better and some did worse and we can all learn from what others did. Your closed, blame it on the government' approach in no way helps in preparing for the next pandemic, of which there will most certainly be one.

 

[TeeLew]

Assuming you don't die of course! The vaccine was there to reduce the severity of disease and minimise deaths - which it did. Natural immunity only helps those that survive the illness.

Anyway I'm not going to spend any more time clogging up an already way off topic thread and certainly not drifting into climate change

The people with natural immunity still had to take the shot. They had already "not died." This was purely a money grab. These people had *nothing* to gain by adding the vaccine.

Climate Change is what started this conversation.

 

[Gregs24]

The people with natural immunity still had to take the shot. They had already "not died." This was purely a money grab. These people had *nothing* to gain by adding the vaccine.

Climate Change is what started this conversation.

Incorrect re vaccinating people that had previously had covid. There were very good reasons for it and still are for some people even now.

Again your lack of knowledge on the subject showing through. It's hilarious how you claim you don't need expert knowledge and then repeatedly demonstrate how your lack of knowledge means you come to wrong conclusions. Still in your world it doesn't matter as nothing will change your mind no matter how clear the evidence.

On the contrary those of us who actually work in the relevant area of expertise are constantly re-assessing what is happening and how things could be improved for the future.

Anyway you keep on hating your government and anybody in authority who has the temerity to tell Tim from So Cal what to do and keep on not believing anything your doctor tells you, I'm sure he is part of the same conspiracy

 

[sk47]

Natural immunity only helps those that survive the illness.

The people with natural immunity still had to take the shot. They had already "not died." This was purely a money grab. These people had *nothing* to gain by adding the vaccine.

Incorrect re vaccinating people that had previously had covid. There were very good reasons for it and still are for some people even now.

Hello; TeeLew beat me to the punch lines. The already immune still had to take the shot even medical folks who knew better and did not want it. Take the shot of lose the job was the Mantra.
A main reason to "force" the naturally immune to get the jabs was the "Money grab" as mentioned. Another portion was the apparent glee those in positions of power mush have gleaned from exercising that power.
A possible other outcome was finding out just how many lemmings exist in a population. way more than i had expected. I still see people wearing masks. Saw one today. I still see occasionally folks alone driving in a car with a mask on.

Two stories. First Gregs and i went at each other for months over "natural immunity" on more than one level. He posted all sorts of links and was much the same then as he is now in terms of attitude. So eventually more and more evidence emerged from behind the censorship screen validating my take on natural immunity. Not that there was ever any doubt among those who knew about natural immunity before Covid. ( NOTE- Gregs must have known being the medical authority he claims to be.)
So briefly Gregs had a lapse or perhaps was trying to weasel away from the stance he had championed during the height of the pandemic. I called him on the apparent about face and he came up with what i termed the "heads I win/tails you lose response." I will try to summarize it. It is a classic.
He contended during the time when authorities were forcing the naturally immune to get the jabs, he was correct because he was following the guidelines of the proper authorities. Many months later when the cat was out of the bag, he then changed his tune to align with my ongoing stance. My stance among the other aspects of natural immunity was that the naturally immune do not need shots was incorrect. Because i did not heed the advice of the proper authorities at the time, therefore to him I was incorrect. He felt he was correct in his actions all along. I was on the other hand only correct many months later. Hope I expressed that well enough. The exchange should still exist in a different thread.

Story #2. I moved into my current home 14 years ago. I got a decent internet connection so was able to do more online. I joined a tropical fish site. Monster Fish Keepers I think. (MFK) I became active and began to post advice about aquarium running and keeping fish. I was new to the online forums but not to fishkeeping. Anyway I was being called out for the advice i was posting. Seems some of my notions ran afoul of a dogma which was common in the online community. Thing is I started keeping freshwater tropical fish around 1959. They tried to cow me into submission. Had i been a newcomer to the hobby such might have worked. But with decades of the hobby behind me, I held my ground. Point being the forum was/is much like this one. People take sides. There emerged a guy from Canada who is almost an online spitting image of our Gregs. Every bit as arrogant. Even good at throwing insults.
I joined this Mustang form some years later. I have had successful aquariums for a long time. I do not know everything but some things i know very well. I was a Biology teacher. I do not know everything about medicine but some i know well enough. Among those things was an understanding of natural immunity. I was not going to be cowed by Greg's or all the talking head experts on TV.

Same with regard to green energy & EV's. I wound up with an area in science so had studied disciplines other than Biology. In place of easy electives, I took as many physics and other science classes as i could fit in. I wound up as a teacher having science classes other than just Biology. Point being I know enough to decipher the information and filter out much of the BS. Gregs would have us allow only "experts" have a say in transportation and energy as well as medicine. Clear enough he wants to retain the former exalted position in society.

 

[shogun32]

Incorrect re vaccinating people that had previously had covid. There were very good reasons for it and still are for some people even now.

Now I see how Jones managed to murder 70 followers. There isn't a shred of credible evidence for the above let alone for reducing symptoms etc. Go read the papers. The methodology fraud and rank misuse of statistics drips off the pages.

But more fun today was this.

The World Health Organization’s Dr. Hanna Nohynek testified in court that she advised her government that vaccine passports were not needed but was ignored, despite explaining that the COVID vaccines did not stop virus transmission and the passports gave a false sense of security.
...
Dr. Nohynek is chief physician at the Finnish Institute for Health and Welfare and serves as the WHO’s chair of Strategic Group of Experts on immunization. Testifying yesterday, she stated that the Finnish Institute for Health knew by the summer of 2021 that the COVID-19 vaccines did not stop virus transmission

and keep on not believing anything your doctor tells you, I'm sure he is part of the same conspiracy

And here you can read what credentialed doctors had to say on the behavior of their peers. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24543473-dr-aseem-malhotra-helsink-court-statement

 

[sk47]

Testifying yesterday, she stated that the Finnish Institute for Health knew by the summer of 2021 that the COVID-19 vaccines did not stop virus transmission

Hello; a reasoned guess is most any other competent health service at a national level knew the same thing. Must have been leading indicators some time before. So, the information was suppressed/censored if it got out. Gotta figure folks at health agencies understood the lack of benefits for people generally. Some, if not most at official levels, went to great lengths to try to be clever in the way the phrasing evolved regarding to the vaccines. From get the shots and stop Covid thru several revisions down to take the shots and best you can hope for is not to be as ill. That is except for those vaccinated who got covid anyway and died. I realize i took some liberties and the talking heads did not say what I wrote exactly. Gives ammunition to Gregs so he can quibble over a distinction without a difference between two words for a few pages. I guess the medical experts who started the vaccine will stop covid announcements must have had their fingers crossed behind their backs.

Even if we give them a benefit of the doubt with regard to good intentions at the start of the vaccine rollouts, by the time these results must have been known to the top Docs, they kept pushing the shots. Then continued to push the shots. Then continued to push the shots. Maybe the stacks of money obscured things too much. Hard to concentrate on mere facts.
Maybe they actually thought for a bit that the vaccines were harmless even if they did not work well at all. So why not get rich while doing no harm.
Of course, we simpleton lay people know and have been told for decades that medicines/shots can and do have side effects. The do no harm bit had to have been known to be false by the top docs a lot sooner than the rest of us.

Dr. Hanna Nohynek testified in court that she advised her government that vaccine passports were not needed but was ignored, despite explaining that the COVID vaccines did not stop virus transmission and the passports gave a false sense of security.

Hello; Docs who were the exception during the pandemic and who spoke truth to power ought to be running things now. I wonder if such is the case. Have these shining light Docs been given the due they deserve? I sort of doubt such is the case.

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