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[Angrey]

I called the dealer and swapped to the 72002 controller which is the pwm controller. I will be buying a fuelab electronic fuel pressure regulator. I want to run one regulator, @Angrey are you running a dual regulator setup?

As banky said, I don't have the DI or high pressure side. So I'm using just single regulator. It brings up an interesting point about how this would work with a 2 regulator setup. I guess you could simply index them both for boost but use a typical mechanical FPR for the high pressure side and then use the electronic regulator for the port injection side.

There's another thread where I questioned how the dual regulators don't end up fighting each other somehow being close together.

One the first regulator passes along flow (being satisfied) then I suppose the second regulator would keep calling for fuel until it's satisfied. If you ran them in series the electronic regulator would definitely need to be both the low pressure side AND the last regulator.

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[bankyf]

As banky said, I don't have the DI or high pressure side. So I'm using just single regulator. It brings up an interesting point about how this would work with a 2 regulator setup. I guess you could simply index them both for boost but use a typical mechanical FPR for the high pressure side and then use the electronic regulator for the port injection side.

There's another thread where I questioned how the dual regulators don't end up fighting each other somehow being close together.

One the first regulator passes along flow (being satisfied) then I suppose the second regulator would keep calling for fuel until it's satisfied. If you ran them in series the electronic regulator would definitely need to be both the low pressure side AND the last regulator.

The DI regulator is typically not boost indexed and Lethal shows them running in series with the DI regulator first. I don't see any reason it won't work exactly like your setup with fuel labs as the primary(second in series) regulator.

 

[illtal]

The DI regulator is typically not boost indexed and Lethal shows them running in series with the DI regulator first. I don't see any reason it won't work exactly like your setup with fuel labs as the primary(second in series) regulator.

I don't think 2 regulators are even needed anymore. I have seen members run the 58 base with the 1:1 rate increase. The DI pump seems not to care about the increased pressure. The low side is where we need the differentials, but at 4bar base it wouldn't be a problem.

 

[bankyf]

I don't think 2 regulators are even needed anymore. I have seen members run the 58 base with the 1:1 rate increase. The DI pump seems not to care about the increased pressure. The low side is where we need the differentials, but at 4bar base it wouldn't be a problem.

Lethal rates the single regulator setup to 1000hp and the dual regulator setup to 2000hp for the Gen 3, where the Gen 2 systems are rated to 2000hp on the same single regulator (obviously depending on pump setup). It doesn't appear that they are worried about the Di side being boost indexed either, so I'm not sure what about single regulator limits the power. But for that matter, I still don't understand why we can't make returnless support big power.

 

[illtal]

Lethal rates the single regulator setup to 1000hp and the dual regulator setup to 2000hp for the Gen 3, where the Gen 2 systems are rated to 2000hp on the same single regulator (obviously depending on pump setup). It doesn't appear that they are worried about the Di side being boost indexed either, so I'm not sure what about single regulator limits the power. But for that matter, I still don't understand why we can't make returnless support big power.

Hmm I'll look into this.

Returnless has a problem with speed. How fast it can react to a huge demand increase. I deguise it would never be a problem with petroleum based fuels with high stoich values, but low stoich value fuels (E-85, Methanol) needs much more flow.

I think the radium setup isn't a true returnless there is a regulator and a return built into the hat. I think the volume is the problem. We need someone to test out the returnless design.

 

[Angrey]

The reason returnless doesn't work in big power applications is because the entire system isn't upscaled accordingly.

In the current returnless setups, the PCM can accomodate swings in demand through changing the pulse width (it can momentarily inject more fuel at lower pressures/flows while the pumps ramp and catch up). Obviously that elastic feature has limitations. Once you get to bigger jumps in demand, the injector can be wide open and still not keep up with the motor.

This is where the return style with excess flow in reserve (by way of the return line) comes in. I'm betting if you doubled the size of the entire system, a returnless system could probably work, although it would solve one problem and create another (tune issues on the low end, low load).

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