MT Head 2 Head - 2018 Camaro SS 1LE vs 2018 Mustang GT

[16 GT MM/Auto]

You are conveniently leaving out Mag ride on the 18 PP. So that 1700$ for the MagRide. and on top of that you have to get the 301a Pack as well.. another 2k... So add that up 3700$ on top of the 3k for the PP. So 6700$ to be 3.30 sec slower LoL.

You are conveniently leaving out Ford allows it's customers to choose what options they want, whereas Chebby laughs at their customer's ability to choose and tells them to take a hike.

And many did, right over to Ford dealers. lol

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[xDUMPWEEDx]

I dont think any of you realize what it takes to shave 3+ seconds off a lap time.

Please enlighten us, Chevy fanboy god.

 

[16 GT MM/Auto]

I dont think any of you realize what it takes to shave 3+ seconds off a lap time.

I don't think any of the trolls realize you don't make definitive assertions about something that hasn't even been released yet.

 

[TomcatDriver]

Fair enough, but there are people (like me) that would remove that stuff if they could. I drive with just me. I don't care about dual zone, blind spot monitoring, backup cameras, lane drift warnings... I'd gladly remove that stuff if it meant a cheaper/lighter car. I'd be happy if a rear set was an additional option and a delete was standard. I'd also like it if you could get 1 recaro seat.

My point is that in 2018 I would be hard pressed to find another $35K base price car that has a radio and basic amenities as sparse as a base Mustang GT. I get the argument that there are some people who don't want to pay for those things, but in 2018 I think that's like saying you don't power windows and don't want to pay for a camera on your phone. You get a camera on your phone if you buy a $150 ZTE or a $1000 iPhone. In 2018 a reasonably sized touch screen should be standard. For many manufactures some form of safety package is standard. If you are a serious racer you're going to rip out all that stuff along with your airbags, insulation, heater and AC etc.

 

[millhouse]

I dont think any of you realize what it takes to shave 3+ seconds off a lap time.

Seems that Ford knows how....they shaved 3.5 seconds at Grattan raceway with the PP2.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...g-gt-performance-package-level-2-info-photos/

Gratten is 2 miles long while streets of willow is 1.8 miles.

Waiting for the excuse here....let's hear it.

 

[TomcatDriver]

They don't sell many Camaros over here (less than 18 per year). I'm getting the impression the Chevrolet Camaro is the poor man's Mustang over in the States?

I don't know about that. The Ford vs Chevy emotions run high, and not always logically. If you are a Chevy guy you probably wouldn't even consider a Mustang, and vice versa.

Pricing wise, Camaro and Mustang are pretty close. The past couple years Mustangs were a *little* cheaper, and arguably the Camaro (6th gen) is a better base platform on the track, but many faults that make it hard to live with daily (visibility, interior, trunk). Also, most people prefer Mustang looks, but that's obviously subjective. The Camaro 1LE (track pack) is certainly a very nice package on paper including nice tire/wheels, magnaride, upgraded suspension, upgraded interior, HUD, and a few more bits for about $6500. Mustangs start cheaper but when optioned comparably the price is pretty close. Mustangs consistently outsell Camaro.

 

[Syphon23]

Seems that Ford knows how....they shaved 3.5 seconds at Grattan raceway with the PP2.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...g-gt-performance-package-level-2-info-photos/

Gratten is 2 miles long while streets of willow is 1.8 miles.

Waiting for the excuse here....let's hear it.

They "Claim". We just gonna have to wait and see.

 

[Syphon23]

It's like dood, you drive a 10 year old C6. You didn't even buy it new. The thing is literally made out of plastic with a leaf spring front suspension set up. Everyone knows GM just copies Ferrari's design. Don't believe me, look it up.

And that 10 year old C6 stock is still as fast as the 6th Gen SS or 18 GTs.

 

[TomcatDriver]

You are conveniently leaving out Ford allows it's customers to choose what options they want, whereas Chebby laughs at their customer's ability to choose and tells them to take a hike.

And many did, right over to Ford dealers. lol

OK, to be fair (and I am no Camaro fan) the options on the Camaro far outweigh the Mustang options. Starting with 4 engines and 6 base trim levels, 9 colors, something like 30 stripe and hash combinations, 9 packages, 10+ rims, etc. You can buy various suspension bits, including lowering kits (short of the 1LE package) from the factory.

I would argue that there are way too many options. The odds of finding one configured the way you like without ordering are slim.

 

[millhouse]

They "Claim". We just gonna have to wait and see.

Typical response from a cheby fanboy.

Another article...

"Performance wise, the new package has 40 percent more grip than the regular GT Performance Package and can pull 1.05 gs on a skidpad. That last figure is a large improvement over the regular pack’s 0.97 gs. Around Grattan Raceway, which is located in Belding, Michigan, Ford’s engineers claim the grippier pack is capable of slicing 3.5 seconds off of a Mustang with the GT Performance Pack’s time"

http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/got-grip-2018-ford-mustang-gt-offers-performance-pack-level-2

 

[UAmach1]

OK, to be fair (and I am no Camaro fan) the options on the Camaro far outweigh the Mustang options. Starting with 4 engines and 6 base trim levels, 9 colors, something like 30 stripe and hash combinations, 9 packages, 10+ rims, etc. You can buy various suspension bits, including lowering kits (short of the 1LE package) from the factory.

I would argue that there are way too many options. The odds of finding one configured the way you like without ordering are slim.

But there is no white /w orange stripe and orange interior, so the number of combos doesn't matter XD

 

[TomcatDriver]

But there is no white /w orange stripe and orange interior, so the number of combos doesn't matter XD

Neither does Mustang. I think there is a joke there, but I don't get it.

 

[Mazman]

Guys

what are we arguing here that one car is 2000-3000 USD cheaper/more expensive than the other. Is the money that one is driving or the car.

The 1LE is a beast on track even if it would cost 55k dollar. Look at the cars it competes with from a time perspective and for the price it is offered for it is astonishing. I really do hope that the PP2 can compete with it. The stiffer swaybars, stiffer springs and re-programming of the magneride will most likely reduce the "floaty" feel reported by MT. How all of this plays with the tires remains to be proven. The type of tires on the PP2 compared to a "regular" street tire(as the pilot sport 4s)can be 1 or 1 1/2(maybe more) seconds difference on a track.

Think of it this way two cars for less than 50k that can hang with most of the sport cars out there in the world for less than 50k or there abouts in some trims more or less fully optioned as well. Also to consider the availability of spare parts and the price of those spare parts compared to the competition, now it is getting really intersting if you see the whole packade. On top of that both cars have freakin back seats and trunks......

The mustang and camaro delivering the same type of thrill in slightly different ways. Living in Sweden I don't have the same type of brand loyality as in you guys have in Sweden. I just shop what I like for the moment.

You are lucky you have the 1LE, GT350 etc available there from dealers. We don't have those cars over here, you should be glad that you have the options. If you want a more track oriented and which is build for the purpose you have the 1LE available to you(hopefully the PP2 will compete with it), if you want to have a more fun car on the streets that is more livable as a DD you have the GT and SS.

With that said it is a but upsetting that the 18 PP1 did not improve its time on Willow compared to the outgoing model with a larger margin event hough having magneride, better tires, more HP and torque.

My 2 cents, drive safe and have fun

 

[UAmach1]

Neither does Mustang. I think there is a joke there, but I don't get it.

1969 Camaro RS/SS Pace Car. Probably one of the most popular/recognizable Camaros of all time.
My dad had one. I think between that and the 70 SS El Camino he had they are the 2 things he regrets selling the most. Mostly the Camaro though.
https://philsclassicchevys.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/054.jpg

If I could build a similar SS 1LE I'd be more inclined to buy one, but I can't so oh well.

 

[Baron95]

Some here are singing the songs of the PP2 without realizing that it is yet another "skunk works" (Ford's words) collection of bits thrown together. The 1LE is a cohesive, well engineered package.

Here is just a short list of the things that are in the SS1LE that are missing on the GT PP2:
1 - Lighter two-piece rotors - one of the most important track items.
2 - Brembo rear calipers - making it harder and more annoying to change rear pads, etc.
3 - Transmission cooler - critical if you will be shifting at redline for more than a lap or two.
4 - Differential cooler - critical if you are going to be pushing the diffs out of corners for more than a lap or two.
5 - Track-speced Oil cooler - critical per above.
6 - E-Diff - this has been a step change in performance and is key to reduce understeer.
7 - Power adjustable Recaros - only manual - cheap
8 -Heated/vented Recaros on Premium, like in the 2SS1LE - again cheap
9 - HUD. Helpful on track to get new drivers to keep their eyes up.
10 - Optional Video/Data Performance recorder - great tool help you get faster on track.
11 - Tow Hook provision (???) - good to have you go off on track, particularly wet tracks and need a tow. (I put this in ??? because I'm not sure if the Mustang has them - i don't think it does)
12 - Factory installed front spoiler. Probably meaning the PP2 spoiler does not meat minimum height and durability for trailering, driveways, etc.
13 - Sub 3,800lbs weight

Put it all together you have a vehicle that is significantly less capable if you are going to track it for whole sessions (vs a single magazine lap) over many seasons.

I do think the PP2 has a chance to get close in performance to the SS1LE for one lap. But will it still be there at the end of 30 min track session in the summer? Even if it does, what are the long term reliability implications of running an engine, tranny and diff without coolers for a couple of seasons? What will wear or break faster as a result?

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