MT Head 2 Head - 2018 Camaro SS 1LE vs 2018 Mustang GT

Discussion in 'Mustang S550 General Forums' started by Chris@CJPP, Jan 16, 2018.

  1. thehunterooo

    thehunterooo Well-Known Member

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    Evan Smith’s run?
     
  2. Ohthatguy

    Ohthatguy Well-Known Member

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    #302 Ohthatguy, Jan 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
    Published Times:

    2016 SS (Mk VI) Auto 12.21@114.93 Hot Rod Magazine pro driver

    11.905@@117.69 (fastest stock time claimed on the fast list at camaro6.com for a 2016+ SS Auto from thousands of forum member passes, based on honor system re: mods, beating Hot Rod Magazine's professional driver by a whopping .3 seconds and 3 miles per hour.)

    2018 Mustang GT Auto PP1 11.83@119.51 Hot Rod Magazine

    (Keep in mind that once thousands of owner passes go down on 2018 Mustang GT autos, if they beat the Hot Rod Magazine staff times by the same margin, that's an 11.53@122.3 mph pass!)

    2018 ZL1 1LE Package (Mk VI)
    11.7 s @ 123.0

    ZL1 (Mk VI)
    11.5 s @ 125.0 mph

    C7 Corvette Grand Sport Mag Times
    12.0@116.6

    C7 Magazine Times
    12.2@119
    12.1@117.8
    11.86@120.29 (carsillustrated.com run)
     
  3. thehunterooo

    thehunterooo Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that was Evan Smith’s run. C6G proclaimed it was BS and that the run is fraudulent and does not count. That is supported by the Camaro owners on this fourm.
     
  4. Ohthatguy

    Ohthatguy Well-Known Member

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    Well fortunately we don't get to just claim BS when some other brand's car is faster than we want it to be. They go into great detail about their process and numerous times and speeds they ran that day. The time stands but it will be eclipsed by other runs in auto '18+ GTs once thousands of passes have been made by owners and car mags.
     
  5. bootlegger

    bootlegger Enginerd

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    You aren't wrong. My first ever track day at the drag strip with my wife's 2007 WRX, I pulled a time equivalent to C&D. I know different conditions and whatnot, but I was inexperienced and learning. This can also be seen with the magazine 1/4 miles times of 12.6 sec in the 6spd 2018 GT, while Evan Smith managed a 12.2.
     
  6. 02gtnh

    02gtnh Well-Known Member

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    Most mag 1/4 times are not on prepped tracks. Evan Smith run was on a very prepped track. But again mag test likely represents most average drivers.:cheers:
     
  7. thehunterooo

    thehunterooo Well-Known Member

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    Rented* prepped track. Forgot about that one myself :eek:
     
  8. millhouse

    millhouse Well-Known Member

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    Is that why the buy rate on the MY15-17 PP1 was somewhere in the neighborhood of 30% of all GT’s sold? You really are clues aren’t you?

    I’m curious, does that mean that because the 1SS has similar equipment as the PP1, that it too is not intended for the “general public”? I guess that explains their terrible sales.

    I remember hearing that they thought the swaybar and seats were removed to accomplish those times…as it was totally unbelievable.

    Most mag times represent what some owners would be able to run on the street. The track is a completely different environment.

    As soon as you take an auto on the track with VHT, it is extremely easy with newer cars to get very good ¼ mile times. Once owners ¼ mile times start rolling out, you will see a lot of low 12, high 11 second ¼ mile runs in cool spring air.
     
  9. Glenn G

    Glenn G Well-Known Member

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    Drivers and tracks are such major variables especially with a manual that anything within a half second reported by magazine is a dead heat as far as I'm concerned and probably couldn't be taken advantage of by your average driver. Someone with damn near my setup ran 11s. I went to an event and couldn't match the stock times the magazines put out, So I won't be reporting that lol. Mph was decent though when I actually didn't miss a shift.
     
  10. 16 GT MM/Auto

    16 GT MM/Auto Well-Known Member

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    That is no joke.

    Here's a small compilation of what professional testers have said about the Camaro's ergonomics:

    ... you should probably pass on the $900 sunroof to seize precious millimeters of headroom
    ... the form-over-function exterior creates some ergonomic woes inside
    ... Hang an arm on the windowsill and your elbow rises to ear level
    ... The high trunklid and low roofline squeeze the view out the back into a sliver
    ... Wide B-pillars and the rising beltline render the rear quarter-windows useless
    ... When the feds make blind-spot monitoring mandatory in the coming years, you’ll have this car to thank
    ... There’s more natural light entering Guantanamo’s solitary cells than the Camaro’s cabin

    http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-page-3

    ... Still can’t see out of the thing, hanging your arm out the window can cause hyperextension of your shoulder
    ... its narrow slits for side windows, fat C-pillar, and short rear glass—has, indeed, done nothing to improve the outward visibility in this new car. It is abysmal
    ... The tanklike construction also prevents much light from entering the cabin
    ... every drive in the Camaro feel like an adventure in spelunking
    ... Other ergonomic misfires include center HVAC vents mounted so low in the center stack that they dispense air directly onto your shifting hand
    ... the world’s most useless door pockets
    ... an infotainment screen canted curiously down toward the floor

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-automatic-test-review

    ... the 2016 has about as much glass as does the Unabomber’s supermax cell
    ... GM design seems obsessed with exploring how small it can make windows
    ... Blinkered visibility (again)

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-chevrolet-camaro-v-6-manual-test-review

    ... thick slab sides and the bunkerlike greenhouse
    ... Visibility remains compromised
    ... the parcel shelf that rises from the base of the rear window to meet the rear backrest—feel like jokes taken a step too far.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-manual-first-drive-review

    haha!

    The reason I've been buying V8 Mustangs from 1982 through today is due to their combination of great performance, upright seating position, and outward visibility.

    And I don't "hate" Camaro's either, they just don't offer everything I'm looking for in a car. That's separate from the owners themselves, of which some are great people.
     
  11. HISSMAN

    HISSMAN Large Member

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    ^ That was a hilarious read. "Jokes taken a step too far" Ha ha ha ha!!
     
  12. wireeater

    wireeater Well-Known Member

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    I'm still failing to see how the PP2 is going to make a big difference (like 3 seconds +....). What exactly does the PP2 have that I missed? Wheels, tires, stiffer suspension (like 20% claimed) and a few appearance aeros and....? I'm not a track racer so maybe my impressions are wrong that it would take more than that to close a gap of 3+ seconds?
     
  13. Ohthatguy

    Ohthatguy Well-Known Member

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    The biggest gap closer there is the wide tires. The widebody Hellcat that runs 305's cut some time off of what the standard hellcat on 275's was running on a course with turns (I.E. not a 1/4 mile track situation).
     
  14. EFI

    EFI Well-Known Member

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    Significantly wider and grippier tires will make a HUGE difference in lap times. As good as the MP4S tires are, they are just a great street tire and nothing more.

    Comparing 255/275 MP4S tires to square 305 Cup 2 tires is night and day difference...hose are borderline track only tires. Just that change alone can knock a few seconds of a lap time in the right hands.

    I can see better suspension tuning and those tires putting a 3 second gap on the PP1.
     
  15. wireeater

    wireeater Well-Known Member

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    What does the 1LE run in the rear, a 305 Eagle F1 right? I mean isn't that tire meh... So I know I'm going off track (no pun intended) here but then if you put a Cup2 tire on it, how much of a difference is there? To me if if it takes those things to match the 1LE which is on worse tires then it still sounds like the 1le is a better performer for those who will actually be tracking the car.
     
  16. Ohthatguy

    Ohthatguy Well-Known Member

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    Either the 1LE or PP2 may emerge as a slightly better performer than the other but that shouldn't matter too much to anybody who hasn't attached their sense of self worth to their preferred brand. Two great performers. Pick your poison.

    I love that Camaros perform so well. Nothing but respect. But for a couple of reasons unrelated to their track performance, they just never make my shortlist when it's time to get a new car.
     
  17. EFI

    EFI Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone on here is saying that the 1LE is not the better performer stock for stock, even against the PP2. What we're saying is that the PP2 should close if not match the gap between the 1LE and current PP1.

    And yes, the F1 tires are not as good as the Cup 2s, but not by much. And of course you can play that game eg. if this car had this also then it would be much better. Mustang owners can say well if our cars had 6.2 liters of displacement it would be game over in a straight line.

    Point is, you run what you have and don't make excuses. In the end, the PP2 is a much closer competitor to the 1LE than the PP1, but as before just about everyone agrees that the 1LE stock for stock is the better performer overall.
     
  18. nastang87xx

    nastang87xx Well-Known Member

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    The Eagle F1 has come a long way. Version 1? Yes, very meh. Version 3? Look out...
     
  19. likeaboss

    likeaboss Well-Known Member

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    It's pretty sad that you can't at least match the performance of your competitor's couple year old model with your latest. Even more so since the price advantage isn't there over the Camaro like the 15-17 models.

    Performance:
    Mustang GT = Camaro SS
    Mustang GT PP1 = Camaro SS 1LE
    Mustang GT PP2 > Camaro SS 1LE....oops we carried over the GT350 for 2018 so scratch all that :tsk:

    By carrying over the GT350 Ford pretty much capped performance of the GT. You think GM is just going to leave things alone performance wise with their 2019 Camaro refresh?
     
  20. millhouse

    millhouse Well-Known Member

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    Except the Mustang GT doesn't match up with the camaro SS. Yes, both are the base models, but GT comes fairly stripped down and only has narrow all season tires by default. The SS comes much more optioned and is only available with wider summer tires.

    Word on the street is, GM is looking to offer a V8 camaro optioned similarly to the GT to bump up sales.
     
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