MT Head 2 Head - 2018 Camaro SS 1LE vs 2018 Mustang GT

[Syphon23]

Some here are singing the songs of the PP2 without realizing that it is yet another "skunk works" (Ford's words) collection of bits thrown together. The 1LE is a cohesive, well engineered package.

Here is just a short list of the things that are in the SS1LE that are missing on the GT PP2:
1 - Lighter two-piece rotors - one of the most important track items.
2 - Brembo rear calipers - making it harder and more annoying to change rear pads, etc.
3 - Transmission cooler - critical if you will be shifting at redline for more than a lap or two.
4 - Differential cooler - critical if you are going to be pushing the diffs out of corners for more than a lap or two.
5 - Track-speced Oil cooler - critical per above.
6 - E-Diff - this has been a step change in performance and is key to reduce understeer.
7 - Power adjustable Recaros - only manual - cheap
8 -Heated/vented Recaros on Premium, like in the 2SS1LE - again cheap
9 - HUD. Helpful on track to get new drivers to keep their eyes up.
10 - Optional Video/Data Performance recorder - great tool help you get faster on track.
11 - Tow Hook provision (???) - good to have you go off on track, particularly wet tracks and need a tow. (I put this in ??? because I'm not sure if the Mustang has them - i don't think it does)
12 - Factory installed front spoiler. Probably meaning the PP2 spoiler does not meat minimum height and durability for trailering, driveways, etc.
13 - Sub 3,800lbs weight

Put it all together you have a vehicle that is significantly less capable if you are going to track it for whole sessions (vs a single magazine lap) over many seasons.

I do think the PP2 has a chance to get close in performance to the SS1LE for one lap. But will it still be there at the end of 30 min track session in the summer? Even if it does, what are the long term reliability implications of running an engine, tranny and diff without coolers for a couple of seasons? What will wear or break faster as a result?

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[bluebeastsrt]

I refuse to get a PP2. Til it comes with a cool hood sticker. Like the Camaro.

 

[millhouse]

Some here are singing the songs of the PP2 without realizing that it is yet another "skunk works" (Ford's words) collection of bits thrown together. The 1LE is a cohesive, well engineered package.

So when GM engineers a car, it's cohesive...but when Ford does the same it's a collection of bits? Bwahahaha, what a tool. Have you forgotten that the camaro is a parts bin car?

Here is just a short list of the things that are in the SS1LE that are missing on the GT PP2:
1 - Lighter two-piece rotors - one of the most important track items.
2 - Brembo rear calipers - making it harder and more annoying to change rear pads, etc.
3 - Transmission cooler - critical if you will be shifting at redline for more than a lap or two.
4 - Differential cooler - critical if you are going to be pushing the diffs out of corners for more than a lap or two.
5 - Track-speced Oil cooler - critical per above.
6 - E-Diff - this has been a step change in performance and is key to reduce understeer.
7 - Power adjustable Recaros - only manual - cheap
8 -Heated/vented Recaros on Premium, like in the 2SS1LE - again cheap
9 - HUD. Helpful on track to get new drivers to keep their eyes up.
10 - Optional Video/Data Performance recorder - great tool help you get faster on track.
11 - Tow Hook provision (???) - good to have you go off on track, particularly wet tracks and need a tow. (I put this in ??? because I'm not sure if the Mustang has them - i don't think it does)
12 - Factory installed front spoiler. Probably meaning the PP2 spoiler does not meat minimum height and durability for trailering, driveways, etc.
13 - Sub 3,800lbs weight

Put it all together you have a vehicle that is significantly less capable if you are going to track it for whole sessions (vs a single magazine lap) over many seasons.

I do think the PP2 has a chance to get close in performance to the SS1LE for one lap. But will it still be there at the end of 30 min track session in the summer? Even if it does, what are the long term reliability implications of running an engine, tranny and diff without coolers for a couple of seasons? What will wear or break faster as a result?

All of that, and you're still stuck with a car that looks like shit and makes you feel like your driving a pillbox. You can add coolers, but you can't fix ugly.

You're going to shit yourself when the PP2 keeps up with the 1LE without 2 piece rotors, rear Brembo's, an e-diff or the transmission and rear end coolers and a sub 3800lb weight. :clap2:

 

[Baron95]

Imma go find a 1LE, test drive it and see what all the fuss is about. I wonder if I'll be able to feel that 3.3 second advantage going around the Costco parking lot looking for a stall.

That is fair. Just don't try that with the PP2. Those undulations in the parking lot will cause that dealer tacked-on front spoiler to scrape everywhere.

Not to mention how hard it will be on your kidneys, since in a desperate attempt to fix a bad chassis/suspension, it sounds like Ford resorted to astronomical spring rates on the PP2.

And I'd be remiss if I didn't tell you to not do it in the rain either, as those Cup 2 tires are undrivable in the rain, particularly when at "parking lot" tire temps.

Finaly, I hope it is not too cold, since you won't be able to turn on the heating on those Ford Recaros that cost $1,7000 extra.

Also, you will not have any built in video from the Performance Data Recorder to show us what the speeds/performance were.

But you are right, you will be able to put more of those giant packages of adult diapers that you get at Costco in the trunk of the Mustang.

Costco - the primary mission for the Mustang GT according to the above poster.

Enjoy.

 

[15GTBEN]

Many here say the Camaro is ugly but I'm just not seeing it, especially the ZL1.
The s550 only looks a little better than the 6 gen from some angles to me.
I always thought the stangs and C7 vette rear quarter view looked a bit funky.
I'll takes performance over looks any day.

 

[UAmach1]

Many here say the Camaro is ugly but I'm just not seeing it, especially the ZL1.
The s550 only looks a little better than the 6 gen from some angles to me.
I'll takes performance over looks any day.

For me it's ugly on the inside. I feel like it's going to date much faster than the mustang.

 

[Baron95]

For me it's ugly on the inside. I feel like it's going to date much faster than the mustang.

I agree. The Camaro interior layout from materials to visibility is just not as good as the Mustang. The trunk opening is also ridiculous.

The seats on the 1LE though are better than anything the Mustang has. Power adjustable Recaros with leather on 1SS and even heated cooled power Recaros on 2SS.

 

[Syphon23]

For me it's ugly on the inside. I feel like it's going to date much faster than the mustang.

For me the new Mustang front looks derp derp.

 

[16 GT MM/Auto]

A couple of tenths quicker on a drag strip, a few seconds faster (PP1, not PP2) on a longer road course ...

And the Camaro still loses out to the Mustang in sales, beating it 34 out of the 44 years that they've competed.

 

[thill444]

Many here say the Camaro is ugly but I'm just not seeing it, especially the ZL1.
The s550 only looks a little better than the 6 gen from some angles to me.
I always thought the stangs and C7 vette rear quarter view looked a bit funky.
I'll takes performance over looks any day.

I think Chevy dropped the ball with the Gen6. They nailed the driving dynamics and engine, but completely missed the mark on styling by trying to cater to gen 5 owners. Being honest one of the negatives about the C7 is sightlines and the Camaro is way worse. The interior materials are pretty good in the Camaro but vent placement and the downward tilting head unit are poor choices. The backseat is harder to traverse than Mustang. I could live with most of this but the really poor sightlines are probably a dealbreaker for me.

It's why I'm looking at Mustangs vs Camaro. I think the Mustang is a much better looking car inside and out and an overall much better daily driver.

If your main priority is track time and lap time I would get a Camaro. If your primary focus is a daily driver and occasional track car the Mustang is a much better choice.

 

[JChors]

Unless you own stock in FMC why do sales figures matter to you? It won't make your car any quicker, and i've yet to meet anyone who's lost a race and then quotes sales numbers as a crutch.

Back to the numbers that matter...Oh, yeah! The guys over at the Ferrari 458 italia forum are just as butt-hurt!

 

[15GTBEN]

I think Chevy dropped the ball with the Gen6. They nailed the driving dynamics and engine, but completely missed the mark on styling by trying to cater to gen 5 owners. Being honest one of the negatives about the C7 is sightlines and the Camaro is way worse. The interior materials are pretty good in the Camaro but vent placement and the downward tilting head unit are poor choices. The backseat is harder to traverse than Mustang. I could live with most of this but the really poor sightlines are probably a dealbreaker for me.

It's why I'm looking at Mustangs vs Camaro. I think the Mustang is a much better looking car inside and out and an overall much better daily driver.

If your main priority is track time and lap time I would get a Camaro. If your primary focus is a daily driver and occasional track car the Mustang is a much better choice.

My 2SS has been a more comfortable daily driver than my 15 base gt ever was on my same 80 mile commute. Much more fun an engaging as well. I don't frequent the track either. S550 back seats were only a little roomier. No body site back there anyway. Works for me. :shrug:

 

[Syphon23]

A couple of tenths quicker on a drag strip, a few seconds faster (PP1, not PP2) on a longer road course ...

And the Camaro still loses out to the Mustang in sales, beating it 34 out of the 44 years that they've competed.

Sales does not equal quality.

Taco Bell is prob the best selling taco shop. Doesnt mean its the best taco shop.

 

[thill444]

Too many people are magazine racers. All the debates about performance and the truth is very few owners of either of these vehicles can likely push their car to the limit at the track. For the vast majority of people who buy these cars I bet very few see the track and the ones that do, most drivers are likely at the novice level.

Through some local C7 clubs I was amazed how many Grand Sport and Z06 owners don't track at all. Most of these cars are garage queens.

 

[Trackaholic]

Some here are singing the songs of the PP2 without realizing that it is yet another "skunk works" (Ford's words) collection of bits thrown together. The 1LE is a cohesive, well engineered package.

Here is just a short list of the things that are in the SS1LE that are missing on the GT PP2:
1 - Lighter two-piece rotors - one of the most important track items.
2 - Brembo rear calipers - making it harder and more annoying to change rear pads, etc.
3 - Transmission cooler - critical if you will be shifting at redline for more than a lap or two.
4 - Differential cooler - critical if you are going to be pushing the diffs out of corners for more than a lap or two.
5 - Track-speced Oil cooler - critical per above.
6 - E-Diff - this has been a step change in performance and is key to reduce understeer.
7 - Power adjustable Recaros - only manual - cheap
8 -Heated/vented Recaros on Premium, like in the 2SS1LE - again cheap
9 - HUD. Helpful on track to get new drivers to keep their eyes up.
10 - Optional Video/Data Performance recorder - great tool help you get faster on track.
11 - Tow Hook provision (???) - good to have you go off on track, particularly wet tracks and need a tow. (I put this in ??? because I'm not sure if the Mustang has them - i don't think it does)
12 - Factory installed front spoiler. Probably meaning the PP2 spoiler does not meat minimum height and durability for trailering, driveways, etc.
13 - Sub 3,800lbs weight

Put it all together you have a vehicle that is significantly less capable if you are going to track it for whole sessions (vs a single magazine lap) over many seasons.

I do think the PP2 has a chance to get close in performance to the SS1LE for one lap. But will it still be there at the end of 30 min track session in the summer? Even if it does, what are the long term reliability implications of running an engine, tranny and diff without coolers for a couple of seasons? What will wear or break faster as a result?

I agree with much of the list, although I think you have exaggerated the importance of some of the items. But my main question is given how superior you believe the SS 1LE to be, do you plan on getting one? If not, why?

-T

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