Moderna Vaccine

[Burkey]

speaking of Israel, there seems to be some strong debate there regarding another round of booster shots. you wouldn't happen to know why would you?

I can‘t speak for Gregs24 but I’d suggest that if I lived in nation where the vaccination program has quite clearly worked, averaging about one death per day of late, I can see why people might want to know why they need another booster.

Is that the reason?

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[Mitch03]

if its been around for 120 years, and herd immunity will never happen, why are we going to all this trouble? the world's population has exploded in the last 120 years so can we agree to just live with this and get back to normal?


ah, the rest of the world doesn't engage in this type of behavior! that's good to know. for a second i was under the impression there were politicians all around the world. i didn't realize only the US has them, and only the US has self serving ones at that....that will exploit any situation in front of them for personal gain. silly me.
back in the real world, we understand that just because all political spheres in a given region agree on something, doesn't make it true. furthermore, just because you claim benefits of vaccination doesn't make it so. we were specifically talking about children no? you couldn't promise there wouldn't be adverse long term reactions and your only suggestion is it possibly could help society. thats quite a burden to place on the backs of other peoples children.


call me old fashioned but i've never wanted to be the first in line for any type of medical procedure. wouldn't you like to give at least some time before those that essentially have no risk from the virus are forced into getting these shots? i fail to see the downside for them.
in the meantime we can do what we should have done all along. get back to living. there is inherent risk on this planet nonstop. everytime you get in your car you face the reality that a drunk driver could hit you. this is a more likely cause of death for a young, healthy person than covid. everytime you go to sleep you could have a heart attack and not wake up. don't worry, i wont make a vaccine/myocarditis joke here.
at some point the adults have to stop sacrificing the future to save the unhealthiest of our population. its selfish and disgusting how cowardly we have behaved since this all started. there are therapeutics of all kinds now. you are free to take as many of them as you would like. others can decide not to. if you have the luxury of hiding at home for the rest of your life and care to do so, fine. but you nor anyone else get to mandate what i do with my body or what kind of life i get to lead if i don't agree to your medical procedures. asking questions and being skeptical is supposed to be a foundational tenet of scientific discovery, but look how anyone that goes against the narrative is treated. it creates only more skepticism so congratulations, i guess?


i clearly did not call sufferers of long covid pussies. i pointed out that SOME people could be pussies and don't actually have anything wrong with them. please do not try and twist things i say into something they are not. maybe you should reread what i wrote if you still don't understand what i said because i'm pretty confident my words were clear.


again, covid has been political since the day it left china. it will always be political. i do have a crystal ball and looking into it i can tell you with absolute certainty the next pandemic, and there will be one, will also be political. welcome to earth, where a bunch of human beings that do human stuff live.
as far as looking elsewhere, you may have been busy misconstruing what i said about long covid and missed where i pointed to data from Israel that supports natural immunity over vaccine immunity. maybe you think Israel also plays silly games, should i find a different country you approve of? speaking of Israel, there seems to be some strong debate there regarding another round of booster shots. you wouldn't happen to know why would you?

that’s typical of Gregory. Always twisting what you post to discredit your view. He especially doent like the p word......Which I know you didnt say it in the context that he descibes......but in his view it shows his true Identity. Ask me how I know......

what you said in your post is spot on.

 

[Atlas1]

I can‘t speak for Gregs24 but I’d suggest that if I lived in nation where the vaccination program has quite clearly worked, averaging about one death per day of late, I can see why people might want to know why they need another booster.

Is that the reason?

Not quite. There is concern in Israel that the reliance on a never ending protocol of booster shots could prevent the population from achieving any type of natural immunity. So it appears a choice has to be made and luckily for us, we have that freedom. You either accept that you have had/will have the virus and develop much longer lasting immunity OR you go down the path of signing up for the pharma immune system cocktail forever. The second choice, despite @Gregs24 trying to avoid it, comes with none of us knowing the LONG TERM implications of this. What we do know is for some of us, the virus does not pose a major risk and the idea that the shot is a good idea and doesn’t carry any risk is not necessarily true.

 

[The Demon]

He especially doent like the p word......

What p word?

 

[Burkey]

There’s a LOT to unpack here.

There is concern in Israel that the reliance on a never ending protocol of booster shots could prevent the population from achieving any type of natural immunity.

1. Who is raising these concerns? The medical fraternity or the people?
2. Where are you getting this information from? Typically, when I see someone using Israel of an example of how not to do it, I have a fair idea where they’re getting their information from. This particular claim, not so much.

So it appears a choice has to be made and luckily for us, we have that freedom.

Youve already had the idea of the herd immunity hoax explained elsewhere. No reason to rehash the reasons as to why it won’t happen with a constantly evolving virus.
Think “influenza” for a practical example.

You either accept that you have had/will have the virus and develop much longer lasting immunity OR you go down the path of signing up for the pharma immune system cocktail forever.

False premise. People who’ve had Covid previously are still becoming infected a second and third time. They could possibly avoid those infections by getting a booster, raising the bodies natural antibodies.

The second choice, despite @Gregs24 trying to avoid it, comes with none of us knowing the LONG TERM implications of this.

Given that the vaccine is clear of your system within a short period, what future effects do you expect to see?
The vaccine can’t mess with your DNA, some viruses can.
HIV being one example. I don’t believe we have any evidence of this virus being capable of doing so.
Having said that, given that this particular virus hasn’t been around for a decade, how do you know what the long term effects of infection might be? I sure don’t have a clue.

What we do know is for some of us, the virus does not pose a major risk and the idea that the shot is a good idea and doesn’t carry any risk is not necessarily true.

Referencing the above point, given the relative youth of this virus, how do you “know” that the virus doesn’t pose a major long term risk?
I don‘t think anyone is saying that the vaccines are risk free. Even the CDC (as just one example) publishes a list of potential side effects.

The risk/benefit ratio is determined by the evidence. So far, the vaccines have proven to winning by a mile on that front. When >800,000 Americans have died from the shots, I’ll review that statement.

 

[Balr14]

Hello; Afraid the statement above is not correct. The more traditional types of vaccine were made in a very much different manner than the mRNA vaccines. The new covid vaccines are the mRNA type.
Traditional vaccines had to be made from large amounts of live virus. To grow a live virus, you had to use some living substrate. Chicken eggs were used to grow virus. So, any one allergic to egg products would be affected.
I am not certain large animals such as horses were used to make vaccines exactly but were used to make medications. Perhaps antibody-based medications. Some are allergic to horse serum product.

The mRNA vaccines are a new sort of vaccine that does not use live hosts or live virus is what I have read and also posted about in a different thread.

I stand corrected. However, mRNA is even less likely to cause adverse reactions than older types of vaccines.

 

[Burkey]

I stand corrected. However, mRNA is even less likely to cause adverse reactions than older types of vaccines.

Not containing the virus in any way shape or form is probably a good start. Ask anyone who received the dodgy batch of the polio vaccine from Cutter Labs back in the 50’s.

Or, there‘s this, which is worrying.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/polio-cases-now-caused-vaccine-wild-virus-67287290

 

[FreePenguin]

I would rather just do natural immunity. I’m not vaccinating, easier to just get it. Get over it and move on. Vs calling, setting up doc appointments, shots, boosters etc. screw that. Just too much work. I’ve already had COVID, pretty sure twice. Doesn’t honestly phase me to get it. I’m healthy though. My roomies and I seem to pass it among ourselves.

 

[Burkey]

I would rather just do natural immunity. I’m not vaccinating, easier to just get it. Get over it and move on. Vs calling, setting up doc appointments, shots, boosters etc. screw that. Just too much work. I’ve already had COVID, pretty sure twice. Doesn’t honestly phase me to get it. I’m healthy though. My roomies and I seem to pass it among ourselves.

It doesn’t bother you that whilst you’re infectious, you’re potentially passing it onto other people who might not cope so well with it?

 

[FreePenguin]

It doesn’t bother you that whilst you’re infectious, you’re potentially passing it onto other people who might not cope so well with it?

I stay at home when I’m sick. It’s just my roomie gets sick then we get sick, we get sick then roomie gets sick. Rinse repeat.

I won’t vax. But I’m not stopping someone else from doing so? I believe if you are worried get it. Me, I’d rather keep getting it over and over til I don’t get it anymore w immunity tbh. I only took stuff in army cuz made me.

i never get any shots since I got out. I won’t even do blood work, I won’t donate blood or plasma. I don’t want anything to do with doctors tbh. Other than wreck stuff. It’s a choice and right. If you’re concerned then vax. Can’t express this enough

nope no docs here. Hell my family is cancer ridden and I won’t even get checked. No point. I already said I’m not going through what my dad did.Treatment was awful for him.

like I mentioned earlier. My brothers mom got vax’d and died 2 days later. Fuk that. No sir not for me or anyone I know. I support people vaccinating and I support those like me who won’t.

 

[Atlas1]

There’s a LOT to unpack here.


1. Who is raising these concerns? The medical fraternity or the people?
2. Where are you getting this information from? Typically, when I see someone using Israel of an example of how not to do it, I have a fair idea where they’re getting their information from. This particular claim, not so much.


Youve already had the idea of the herd immunity hoax explained elsewhere. No reason to rehash the reasons as to why it won’t happen with a constantly evolving virus.
Think “influenza” for a practical example.


False premise. People who’ve had Covid previously are still becoming infected a second and third time. They could possibly avoid those infections by getting a booster, raising the bodies natural antibodies.



Given that the vaccine is clear of your system within a short period, what future effects do you expect to see?
The vaccine can’t mess with your DNA, some viruses can.
HIV being one example. I don’t believe we have any evidence of this virus being capable of doing so.
Having said that, given that this particular virus hasn’t been around for a decade, how do you know what the long term effects of infection might be? I sure don’t have a clue.


Referencing the above point, given the relative youth of this virus, how do you “know” that the virus doesn’t pose a major long term risk?
I don‘t think anyone is saying that the vaccines are risk free. Even the CDC (as just one example) publishes a list of potential side effects.

The risk/benefit ratio is determined by the evidence. So far, the vaccines have proven to winning by a mile on that front. When >800,000 Americans have died from the shots, I’ll review that statement.

Apologies in advance, this post is on my phone and I don’t have the patience late at night to break down each individual point in response to yours.
1. Both.
2. I believe it was October or November that research from Israel highlighted the effectiveness of the vaccines wearing off and the concern for a need to possibly continue doing boosters every time a new wave hits. They also studied infection rates showing that those with natural immunity or natural +1 shot had the most robust protection in comparison to those with 3 shots only. Also, I work for an Israeli company and correspond with a handful of coworkers there on a very regular basis. Naturally this is a topic that comes up frequently and I trust their assessment of what is happening there.

herd immunity hoax - we can’t have it both ways. If this is influenza like, and is going to just be a thing forever, I again fail to see how mandating shots especially for those not at risk somehow is a solution and a way out of the virus as has been promised.

false premise - the vaccines do not offer any protection whatsoever against infection. The pharma companies are at least finally being honest about this. If natural immunity does not prevent infection, no amount of shots will either.

given that the vaccine… - I do not know what long term effects the vaccine might bring with it, if any. My point has been that for people that statistically have no risk from the virus, any risk due to the vax is too much. It seems that anytime someone mentions the adverse reactions that have come from these shots they are mocked. I can assure you for the few individuals that have had a bad reaction, there is no mocking taking place. Certainly not for those that have died. I would think given the choice, someone that died from a vaccine related event would like to go back and take their chance with the virus no? Again, my point has been the freedom to make one’s own decision. My parents have both received booster shots and I’m glad they did. But they are old and have health related issues. Their risk from the virus is statistically greater than the vaccine. That is not true in my case or many others, certainly not children.

referencing - I do not know what the long term effects are of the virus. Could it be something that even after getting over, it lays dormant and then comes back with a vengeance later in life? Unlikely, but certainly possible. But what difference does it make, considering there is no way to avoid it? The vaccines do not prevent infection. Therefore long term effects of the virus are unfortunately something we will all have to live with. Any concerns regarding this should be delivered to China. At the risk of detailing this convo, if this lab created virus does in fact produce that devastating of a future for us, I am not being hyperbolic when I say they should be nuked into oblivion.

risk/benefit - sadly I don’t think we know how many have died FROM covid. 800k+ is certainly a number given but how many of those were individuals that were knocking on deaths door already? When you are 500lbs, it’s hard to apply that data to me for example. Someone that is 95? Again, not applicable. And I’m 37! For children? They might as well be a different species. Just because these vaccines are not killing more people than the virus does not mean they present zero risk and therefore this risk must be taken into account when deciding who should get them. This blanket idea that ALL must get the shots and continue getting them one booster after another until the pharma CEO’s decide otherwise is insane.

again sorry for the late night response on my phone. I’m sure it’s not easy to follow it all.

 

[Burkey]

Apologies in advance, this post is on my phone and I don’t have the patience late at night to break down each individual point in response to yours.
1. Both.
2. I believe it was October or November that research from Israel highlighted the effectiveness of the vaccines wearing off and the concern for a need to possibly continue doing boosters every time a new wave hits. They also studied infection rates showing that those with natural immunity or natural +1 shot had the most robust protection in comparison to those with 3 shots only. Also, I work for an Israeli company and correspond with a handful of coworkers there on a very regular basis. Naturally this is a topic that comes up frequently and I trust their assessment of what is happening there.

herd immunity hoax - we can’t have it both ways. If this is influenza like, and is going to just be a thing forever, I again fail to see how mandating shots especially for those not at risk somehow is a solution and a way out of the virus as has been promised.

false premise - the vaccines do not offer any protection whatsoever against infection. The pharma companies are at least finally being honest about this. If natural immunity does not prevent infection, no amount of shots will either.

given that the vaccine… - I do not know what long term effects the vaccine might bring with it, if any. My point has been that for people that statistically have no risk from the virus, any risk due to the vax is too much. It seems that anytime someone mentions the adverse reactions that have come from these shots they are mocked. I can assure you for the few individuals that have had a bad reaction, there is no mocking taking place. Certainly not for those that have died. I would think given the choice, someone that died from a vaccine related event would like to go back and take their chance with the virus no? Again, my point has been the freedom to make one’s own decision. My parents have both received booster shots and I’m glad they did. But they are old and have health related issues. Their risk from the virus is statistically greater than the vaccine. That is not true in my case or many others, certainly not children.

referencing - I do not know what the long term effects are of the virus. Could it be something that even after getting over, it lays dormant and then comes back with a vengeance later in life? Unlikely, but certainly possible. But what difference does it make, considering there is no way to avoid it? The vaccines do not prevent infection. Therefore long term effects of the virus are unfortunately something we will all have to live with. Any concerns regarding this should be delivered to China. At the risk of detailing this convo, if this lab created virus does in fact produce that devastating of a future for us, I am not being hyperbolic when I say they should be nuked into oblivion.

risk/benefit - sadly I don’t think we know how many have died FROM covid. 800k+ is certainly a number given but how many of those were individuals that were knocking on deaths door already? When you are 500lbs, it’s hard to apply that data to me for example. Someone that is 95? Again, not applicable. And I’m 37! For children? They might as well be a different species. Just because these vaccines are not killing more people than the virus does not mean they present zero risk and therefore this risk must be taken into account when deciding who should get them. This blanket idea that ALL must get the shots and continue getting them one booster after another until the pharma CEO’s decide otherwise is insane.

again sorry for the late night response on my phone. I’m sure it’s not easy to follow it all.

Wait…
on the one hand you’re saying that the vaccines don’t prevent infection, but also claiming that the vaccines “wear off” (which is true).
Do you not see what you’ve done there?
If they don’t work, how exactly do they “wear off”?


I‘ll quote a passage from the link at the bottom.
Please note, they’re specifically referring to the reduced risk of INFECTION.
In fairness, this article comes from September of this year and probably doesn’t account for Omicron data.

“According to the UK's Office for National Statistics, the AstraZeneca vaccine is 67 per cent effective against infection with Delta, while the Pfizer jab is 80 per cent effective.

Other preliminary research suggests there isn't much difference between the two, and that they both reduce the risk of infection by 80 per cent.

Estimates for vaccine effectiveness against infection vary considerably from country to country, and depend on the type of vaccine, the prevailing COVID-19 variant, and the time elapsed since the second vaccine.

Estimates vary from around 55 to 80 per cent, with most hovering around the 60-70 per cent mark.”

Now, onto the claim re: China.
You honestly think they deliberately created a virus that only kills about 0.5% of the population? Seems like a really poor quality biological weapon to me. You‘d think they’d ramp it up a bit. Never mind the fact that the virus shows all the hallmarks of a virus that evolved naturally. To the point that if a person were to create this deliberately, there’s much simpler ways of going about it. Much less troublesome.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/...es-do-they-change-risk-of-infection/100484432

 

[Gregs24]

if its been around for 120 years, and herd immunity will never happen, why are we going to all this trouble? the world's population has exploded in the last 120 years so can we agree to just live with this and get back to normal?


ah, the rest of the world doesn't engage in this type of behavior! that's good to know. for a second i was under the impression there were politicians all around the world. i didn't realize only the US has them, and only the US has self serving ones at that....that will exploit any situation in front of them for personal gain. silly me.
back in the real world, we understand that just because all political spheres in a given region agree on something, doesn't make it true. furthermore, just because you claim benefits of vaccination doesn't make it so. we were specifically talking about children no? you couldn't promise there wouldn't be adverse long term reactions and your only suggestion is it possibly could help society. thats quite a burden to place on the backs of other peoples children.


call me old fashioned but i've never wanted to be the first in line for any type of medical procedure. wouldn't you like to give at least some time before those that essentially have no risk from the virus are forced into getting these shots? i fail to see the downside for them.
in the meantime we can do what we should have done all along. get back to living. there is inherent risk on this planet nonstop. everytime you get in your car you face the reality that a drunk driver could hit you. this is a more likely cause of death for a young, healthy person than covid. everytime you go to sleep you could have a heart attack and not wake up. don't worry, i wont make a vaccine/myocarditis joke here.
at some point the adults have to stop sacrificing the future to save the unhealthiest of our population. its selfish and disgusting how cowardly we have behaved since this all started. there are therapeutics of all kinds now. you are free to take as many of them as you would like. others can decide not to. if you have the luxury of hiding at home for the rest of your life and care to do so, fine. but you nor anyone else get to mandate what i do with my body or what kind of life i get to lead if i don't agree to your medical procedures. asking questions and being skeptical is supposed to be a foundational tenet of scientific discovery, but look how anyone that goes against the narrative is treated. it creates only more skepticism so congratulations, i guess?


i clearly did not call sufferers of long covid pussies. i pointed out that SOME people could be pussies and don't actually have anything wrong with them. please do not try and twist things i say into something they are not. maybe you should reread what i wrote if you still don't understand what i said because i'm pretty confident my words were clear.


again, covid has been political since the day it left china. it will always be political. i do have a crystal ball and looking into it i can tell you with absolute certainty the next pandemic, and there will be one, will also be political. welcome to earth, where a bunch of human beings that do human stuff live.
as far as looking elsewhere, you may have been busy misconstruing what i said about long covid and missed where i pointed to data from Israel that supports natural immunity over vaccine immunity. maybe you think Israel also plays silly games, should i find a different country you approve of? speaking of Israel, there seems to be some strong debate there regarding another round of booster shots. you wouldn't happen to know why would you?

Oh dear. Let the virus run free, vaccination is too dangerous, there are too many people in the world, the authorities are too powerful, it's all political. The only thing you forgot to mention was the revolution. Your true colours shine through clearly

End of discussion - Goodbye

 

[Gregs24]

I stand corrected. However, mRNA is even less likely to cause adverse reactions than older types of vaccines.

This is correct. The way in which some vaccines are made involves proteins such as those derived from eggs which can cause anaphylaxis in some people. This is a well understood process and with flu vaccines for example, 'non-egg' based vaccines are available for those that need them.

 

[Gregs24]

I would rather just do natural immunity. I’m not vaccinating, easier to just get it. Get over it and move on. Vs calling, setting up doc appointments, shots, boosters etc. screw that. Just too much work. I’ve already had COVID, pretty sure twice. Doesn’t honestly phase me to get it. I’m healthy though. My roomies and I seem to pass it among ourselves.

Wow

Is getting out of bed too much work as well ?

Some other people have taken that approach - they didn't live to post about it however. Good Luck!

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