maximum camber settings

[dmann]

I had FRTP suspension and Steeda camber plates installed last week. Before I went to the alignment shop the installer measured the front at -3.25 camber. I settled at -2.7 front and -1.9 rear. I think the max for the rear is -2 without mods.

My question is, In a race setup what would the front and rear look like camber wise? Of course, this would be for maximum tire contact/wear. Also what mods are required to get the max out of the rear? The intent for this car is to be a full on track car within 3 years.

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[NightmareMoon]

I had FRTP suspension and Steeda camber plates installed last week. Before I went to the alignment shop the installer measured the front at -3.25 camber. I settled at -2.7 front and -1.9 rear. I think the max for the rear is -2 without mods.

My question is, In a race setup what would the front and rear look like camber wise? Of course, this would be for maximum tire contact/wear. Also what mods are required to get the max out of the rear? The intent for this car is to be a full on track car within 3 years.

2.0 is the most I’ve every seen anyone recommend for track use. In my experience grip starts to fall off quickly above that, so you’re in good shape for rear camber.

For the front 2.7 is what I run. Its almost enough for track use You really do need like 3 degrees or more to keep tire wear even across the tread when cornering 1.2-1.4Gs (street tires cap out at about 1.2 but R-compounds can go higher) but 2.7 is where I’m at and tire wear at the track is pretty good. I’m still going to need to dismount and flip tires on the wheels mid-life to make the most out of the tires at 2.7 but braking performance doesn’t suffer too much and street tire wear is not disasterous.

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[NightmareMoon]

TL;DR 1.9-2.0 and you’re there for rear camber. Front camber can go up to 3.5 or so in a race setup.

 

[dmann]

I went 2.7 based on your experience of it not being to bad on daily tire wear.
So, F-3.5 and R-2.0.
Sounds like a plan, as always, much appreciated!

 

[NightmareMoon]

I went 2.7 based on your experience of it not being to bad on daily tire wear.
So, F-3.5 and R-2.0.
Sounds like a plan, as always, much appreciated!

I would get another opinion on the exact dedicated track camber. 3.5 is a ballpark figure and it may depend on the tires you intend to run.

 

[Grintch]

I thought Vorslag was running 3.5 and almost 3, and said they STILL got more outside than inside tire wear.

 

[BmacIL]

I thought Vorslag was running 3.5 and almost 3, and said they STILL got more outside than inside tire wear.

Dependent on many variables....
Tires
Spring rates
Bar rates
Ride height (from lowering)
Driving style
Aero

Terry's car is very low despite being quite stiff. The geometry isn't working in his favor.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I thought Terry’s tire wear was quite good, at least in one configuration.

Perfect tire wear is a unicorn. Lets settle for decent tire wear.

 

[Eritas]

Perfect tire wear is a unicorn. Lets settle for decent tire wear.

Why is that? If you're wearing the outer edge, add more camber until you don't.

 

[EFI]

Why is that? If you're wearing the outer edge, add more camber until you don't.

Yes but then you start wearing the inner edge. Because there are many oscillations of the wheel and suspension during various points of a track outing that there can't ever be a perfect camber setting 100% of the time. Camber is static for the most part, so until you can have adjustable camber that changes hundreds of times a second (kind of like magnetic shocks) based on the situation, there can only be suitable for a single specific load while all others it's not ideal. Racers set the camber for the situation that wears tires the most in order to reduce the event that makes the biggest difference, while sacrificing the others.

 

[Eritas]

Yes but then you start wearing the inner edge. Because there are many oscillations of the wheel and suspension during various points of a track outing that there can't ever be a perfect camber setting 100% of the time. Camber is static for the most part, so until you can have adjustable camber that changes hundreds of times a second (kind of like magnetic shocks) based on the situation, there can only be suitable for a single specific load while all others it's not ideal. Racers set the camber for the situation that wears tires the most in order to reduce the event that makes the biggest difference, while sacrificing the others.

Maybe for a car that does a lot of street miles. But purely on track, you add more camber until you don't wear out the outer edge, or ideally until your tire temps have a nice spread.

 

[EFI]

Maybe for a car that does a lot of street miles. But purely on track, you add more camber until you don't wear out the outer edge, or ideally until your tire temps have a nice spread.

That's true, but it also depends on the track, configuration, temps etc. There's no one single perfect camber setting for all those variables...unless you run the same exact track in the same exact configuration in similar track conditions.

That's why for most of us that don't customize camber for every track day and that go on multiple tracks, camber is a general setting to minimize wear but it's rarely if ever perfect.

 

[Eritas]

That's true, but it also depends on the track, configuration, temps etc. There's no one single perfect camber setting for all those variables...unless you run the same exact track in the same exact configuration in similar track conditions.

That's why for most of us that don't customize camber for every track day and that go on multiple tracks, camber is a general setting to minimize wear but it's rarely if ever perfect.

If you're at a track that is heavily biased in one direction (PBIR), you can always swap tires right to left. But tire wear on track and using the tire effectively in a turn doesn't really change from track to track, so ideal camber shouldn't change. Now if you use those same tires on the street and don't change your camber, yes you're in a compromise of excess inner tire wear.

 

[Stuntman]

If you're at a track that is heavily biased in one direction (PBIR), you can always swap tires right to left. But tire wear on track and using the tire effectively in a turn doesn't really change from track to track, so ideal camber shouldn't change. Now if you use those same tires on the street and don't change your camber, yes you're in a compromise of excess inner tire wear.

The truth is somewhere between you and EFI. "Ideal" camber will vary from track to track depending on the types of corners but it usually won't vary more than a few tenths of a degree. (Which should be determined by a PROBE type tire pyrometer).

The biggest gain in lap time and tire wear is taking camber out of the less-loaded 'inside tire' (the right front at PBIR). In general I agree with you that once you get a good temp spread, you won't really need to change the camber and perfectly optimize it track to track and you can swap tires R-L at tracks that have more corners in one direction like PBIR or Lime Rock.

 

[Grintch]

Yes but then you start wearing the inner edge. Because there are many oscillations of the wheel and suspension during various points of a track outing that there can't ever be a perfect camber setting 100% of the time. Camber is static for the most part, so until you can have adjustable camber that changes hundreds of times a second (kind of like magnetic shocks) based on the situation, there can only be suitable for a single specific load while all others it's not ideal. Racers set the camber for the situation that wears tires the most in order to reduce the event that makes the biggest difference, while sacrificing the others.

True, but radials like camber. And a little too much camber (based on wear) is usually faster than too little. Of course when you start having a multipurpose car, that sees a lot of street use, compromises have to be made. Unless of course you changes pads, alignment, etc. before and after every event.

I wonder what Steeda is running on their T1 car...

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