Mike@KenneBell
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2014
- Threads
- 6
- Messages
- 48
- Reaction score
- 58
- Location
- So. California
- First Name
- Mike
- Vehicle(s)
- 2015 Mustang GT
- Thread starter
- #1
50 STATE LEGAL
Judging from the comments, I guess Kenne Bell needs to work on our presence with this forum. There appears to be some confusion on EO’s so I’ll start there. Yes, EO’s can be a little confusing. First, let me say that Kenne Bell does, in fact, have an EO for the ‘15-‘16 Mustang (CARB EO D-271-28 8/17/15) which supersedes our ‘11-‘14 5.0 D-271-18 1/31/11).
However, the EO D-271-28 supersedes the D-271-18 as we wanted all our ‘11-‘16 kits to be 50 State Legal with the big 168mm Mammoth Throttle Body. And now the entire line of rear inlet superchargers (2.8, 3.2, 3.6 and 4.2) are 50 Sate Legal on the ‘11-‘16 cars.
I might add that any CARB EO, particularly the higher emission standard and complex ‘15-‘16 Mustang 5.0 is a very expensive, complex and time consuming commitment for any supercharger company.
I have always had a lot of respect for Whipple – or any manufacturer who steps up and succeeds in calibrating and passing ‘15-‘16 Mustang emissions standards.
Since 1990, both Kenne Bell and Whipple have always spent the time and resources necessary to obtain 50 State Legal CARB Exemption Orders (also EPA legal). Lack of an EO can result in serious consequences for owners. We freely admit to spending 8 months perfecting the driveability and meeting emissions with our two 2015 Mustang test cars (auto and manual trans). The above might explain why some supercharger companies have not yet obtained EO’s or may never get one. Fortunately, Kenne Bell has always possessed the necessary in house equipment, calibration software, experience and personal to calibrate our own vehicles, or we wouldn’t be in this business today. Calibrating a late model Ford that wasn’t originally equipped with a supercharger is a daunting task for any company, OEM or aftermarket. And keep in mind that “calibration” is far more difficult than re-tuning or tweaking an OEM or aftermarket calibration for more HP (spark, fuel, etc).
What made calibration even more difficult for our 2011-16 kit family was the incorporation of the huge industry leading 168mm throttle body (stock is 83mm). It was the key to providing almost unlimited room to grow (approx. 1500HP) for our kits. Air flow/HP is always limited by the smallest component in the inlet system – the throttle body. Our goal was to design one basic high HP potential rear inlet kit with a minimum restriction 168 throttle body, external air cool air kit, intercooler and manifold capable of supporting 1500HP in competition form. And this over engineered “kit” would accept our full line of 50 State Legal superchargers (2.8, 3.2, 3.6, 4.0 and 4.2) making it relatively easy to upgrade or initially select a larger displacement supercharger for room to grow. There was no other option making calibration even more difficult. In either event, it is not necessary to purchase an expensive completely new kit. Only a supercharger upgrade is necessary. Even the standard bypass valve system is retained when upgrading.
Why has 50 State Legal become so important? More and more States are adopting California emissions standards. But they haven’t all adopted the “visual inspection” or “tailpipe testing” programs – yet. Example: If your car fails a visual inspection in California (supercharger kit, headers, cool air kit, etc.), you don’t get the registration or license plates renewed until the supercharger kit or illegal product(s) are removed. And the car can’t be sold or transferred until it is in compliance with the visual, tailpipe testing and ECM codes. They just flunked our old supercharged 1990 Mustang (after 26 years) because the EO sticker was missing on the supercharger. Be aware that both the EPA and/or CARB are clamping down on violators and assessing huge fines for the sale of illegal products. And if you attempt to cheat or circumvent the system – look at what’s happening to VW. They have both CARB (California) and the EPA prosecuting and fining them. So even if your State hasn’t yet adopted CARB emissions standards, testing or visual inspection, there may also be the EPA compliance to worry about in the future. We may be old fashioned, but I don’t look forward to ever placing Kenne Bell customers in either of these situations with our best selling kit. Also, neither Shelby, Saleen or any past car manufacturer will use a non 50 State Legal kit. And it’s expensive to remove a supercharger kit and convert it back to stock.
SHELBY SUPER SNAKES
Since 2007, Kenne Bell has been the #1 supplier of upgraded 2.8 and 3.6 50 State Legal Twin Screw kits for the 800-850HP Shelby Super Snakes. The ‘15-‘16 S302 730HP Black Label also selected the Kenne Bell 2.8. And yes, Shelby offers both a 2.9 Whipple and a 2.8 and now a big 3.2 Liquid Cooled Kenne Bell for their ‘15-‘15 Super Snakes. We believe their customers will more likely choose the largest SC with Liquid Cooling – our 3.2LC, just as the 5.4 and 5.8 Shelby Super Snake owners preferred the latest Kenne Bell 3.6LC over our 2.8 when it was introduced. And we are working on several new products. So, we are still as “active” as ever.
SUPERCHARGER SIZE
FWW, our 26 years in the Twin Screw business has taught us that most Mustang owners typically prefer “bigger.” Probably because Fords have become increasingly efficient and powerful every year since the early ‘90’s. That makes it increasingly difficult for a smaller supercharger to “keep up” or create boost/back pressure in the engine.
Since 1999, a huge part of our business has been upgrading and replacing the smaller less efficient (‘03-‘04 Cobra, Lightnings and ‘07-‘14 Shelby GT500’s) with 2.6-4.7 size superchargers. Looking back, our first 1990 5.0 kit used a 1.5L which was regarded as “big” for that particular engine and era. Over the years, we spent millions on the R&D of ever increasingly larger 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.4, 2.6, 2.8, 3.2, 3.6, 4.0 4.2 and 4.7 kit development. Whipple also refused to adapt to the less efficient Eatons. To this day, I don’t believe KB or Whipple is remotely interested in basing our futures on an undersized off the shelf OEM low cost one size fits all 2.3 rotor paks like so many other companies. Not that it isn’t a good little supercharger since they finally twisted the rotors like the Twin Screw. I believe it lacks both the image, size and HP potential that our 5.0 customers are looking for. KB customers simply prefer the larger 2L, 3L and 4L displacement rear inlet billet Twin Screw superchargers for their 5.0’s. That is the exact concept we will continue to focus on in the years to come. There will NEVER be a front inlet, TVS or cast supercharger ever come out of Kenne Bell. And yes, we are big on advertising our Liquid Cooling, 4x6 lobe rotors, larger SC’s and take KB 5.0 Mustang HP advantage on the dyno, 1/4 mile, Flying Mile, muscle car mfgs, records, etc. It’s what companies do i.e. promote the product advantages. And we work very hard at supplying factual dyno tests, tech info and FAQ’s on our website to support our claims so a potential buyer can make an intelligent decision. But in the future I guess I need to try harder to do a better job of communicating on this forum and supporting Travis.
Jim Bell
President
Kenne Bell Superchargers
Judging from the comments, I guess Kenne Bell needs to work on our presence with this forum. There appears to be some confusion on EO’s so I’ll start there. Yes, EO’s can be a little confusing. First, let me say that Kenne Bell does, in fact, have an EO for the ‘15-‘16 Mustang (CARB EO D-271-28 8/17/15) which supersedes our ‘11-‘14 5.0 D-271-18 1/31/11).
However, the EO D-271-28 supersedes the D-271-18 as we wanted all our ‘11-‘16 kits to be 50 State Legal with the big 168mm Mammoth Throttle Body. And now the entire line of rear inlet superchargers (2.8, 3.2, 3.6 and 4.2) are 50 Sate Legal on the ‘11-‘16 cars.
I might add that any CARB EO, particularly the higher emission standard and complex ‘15-‘16 Mustang 5.0 is a very expensive, complex and time consuming commitment for any supercharger company.
I have always had a lot of respect for Whipple – or any manufacturer who steps up and succeeds in calibrating and passing ‘15-‘16 Mustang emissions standards.
Since 1990, both Kenne Bell and Whipple have always spent the time and resources necessary to obtain 50 State Legal CARB Exemption Orders (also EPA legal). Lack of an EO can result in serious consequences for owners. We freely admit to spending 8 months perfecting the driveability and meeting emissions with our two 2015 Mustang test cars (auto and manual trans). The above might explain why some supercharger companies have not yet obtained EO’s or may never get one. Fortunately, Kenne Bell has always possessed the necessary in house equipment, calibration software, experience and personal to calibrate our own vehicles, or we wouldn’t be in this business today. Calibrating a late model Ford that wasn’t originally equipped with a supercharger is a daunting task for any company, OEM or aftermarket. And keep in mind that “calibration” is far more difficult than re-tuning or tweaking an OEM or aftermarket calibration for more HP (spark, fuel, etc).
What made calibration even more difficult for our 2011-16 kit family was the incorporation of the huge industry leading 168mm throttle body (stock is 83mm). It was the key to providing almost unlimited room to grow (approx. 1500HP) for our kits. Air flow/HP is always limited by the smallest component in the inlet system – the throttle body. Our goal was to design one basic high HP potential rear inlet kit with a minimum restriction 168 throttle body, external air cool air kit, intercooler and manifold capable of supporting 1500HP in competition form. And this over engineered “kit” would accept our full line of 50 State Legal superchargers (2.8, 3.2, 3.6, 4.0 and 4.2) making it relatively easy to upgrade or initially select a larger displacement supercharger for room to grow. There was no other option making calibration even more difficult. In either event, it is not necessary to purchase an expensive completely new kit. Only a supercharger upgrade is necessary. Even the standard bypass valve system is retained when upgrading.
Why has 50 State Legal become so important? More and more States are adopting California emissions standards. But they haven’t all adopted the “visual inspection” or “tailpipe testing” programs – yet. Example: If your car fails a visual inspection in California (supercharger kit, headers, cool air kit, etc.), you don’t get the registration or license plates renewed until the supercharger kit or illegal product(s) are removed. And the car can’t be sold or transferred until it is in compliance with the visual, tailpipe testing and ECM codes. They just flunked our old supercharged 1990 Mustang (after 26 years) because the EO sticker was missing on the supercharger. Be aware that both the EPA and/or CARB are clamping down on violators and assessing huge fines for the sale of illegal products. And if you attempt to cheat or circumvent the system – look at what’s happening to VW. They have both CARB (California) and the EPA prosecuting and fining them. So even if your State hasn’t yet adopted CARB emissions standards, testing or visual inspection, there may also be the EPA compliance to worry about in the future. We may be old fashioned, but I don’t look forward to ever placing Kenne Bell customers in either of these situations with our best selling kit. Also, neither Shelby, Saleen or any past car manufacturer will use a non 50 State Legal kit. And it’s expensive to remove a supercharger kit and convert it back to stock.
SHELBY SUPER SNAKES
Since 2007, Kenne Bell has been the #1 supplier of upgraded 2.8 and 3.6 50 State Legal Twin Screw kits for the 800-850HP Shelby Super Snakes. The ‘15-‘16 S302 730HP Black Label also selected the Kenne Bell 2.8. And yes, Shelby offers both a 2.9 Whipple and a 2.8 and now a big 3.2 Liquid Cooled Kenne Bell for their ‘15-‘15 Super Snakes. We believe their customers will more likely choose the largest SC with Liquid Cooling – our 3.2LC, just as the 5.4 and 5.8 Shelby Super Snake owners preferred the latest Kenne Bell 3.6LC over our 2.8 when it was introduced. And we are working on several new products. So, we are still as “active” as ever.
SUPERCHARGER SIZE
FWW, our 26 years in the Twin Screw business has taught us that most Mustang owners typically prefer “bigger.” Probably because Fords have become increasingly efficient and powerful every year since the early ‘90’s. That makes it increasingly difficult for a smaller supercharger to “keep up” or create boost/back pressure in the engine.
Since 1999, a huge part of our business has been upgrading and replacing the smaller less efficient (‘03-‘04 Cobra, Lightnings and ‘07-‘14 Shelby GT500’s) with 2.6-4.7 size superchargers. Looking back, our first 1990 5.0 kit used a 1.5L which was regarded as “big” for that particular engine and era. Over the years, we spent millions on the R&D of ever increasingly larger 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.4, 2.6, 2.8, 3.2, 3.6, 4.0 4.2 and 4.7 kit development. Whipple also refused to adapt to the less efficient Eatons. To this day, I don’t believe KB or Whipple is remotely interested in basing our futures on an undersized off the shelf OEM low cost one size fits all 2.3 rotor paks like so many other companies. Not that it isn’t a good little supercharger since they finally twisted the rotors like the Twin Screw. I believe it lacks both the image, size and HP potential that our 5.0 customers are looking for. KB customers simply prefer the larger 2L, 3L and 4L displacement rear inlet billet Twin Screw superchargers for their 5.0’s. That is the exact concept we will continue to focus on in the years to come. There will NEVER be a front inlet, TVS or cast supercharger ever come out of Kenne Bell. And yes, we are big on advertising our Liquid Cooling, 4x6 lobe rotors, larger SC’s and take KB 5.0 Mustang HP advantage on the dyno, 1/4 mile, Flying Mile, muscle car mfgs, records, etc. It’s what companies do i.e. promote the product advantages. And we work very hard at supplying factual dyno tests, tech info and FAQ’s on our website to support our claims so a potential buyer can make an intelligent decision. But in the future I guess I need to try harder to do a better job of communicating on this forum and supporting Travis.
Jim Bell
President
Kenne Bell Superchargers
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