ITLRUN's HR186 Journal

[tj@steeda]

I would definitely consider the G-Trac bar if it actually helps solve the problem. You are absolutely correct about the tires. I am considering some sort of non- obtrusive ... Dare I say.. mud flap to protect the sides of the car from small rocks. I like JLT's Rock blockers, but that's not going to do enough. :shrug:

Several members have weighed on this thread ... could be helpful:

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62373&highlight=Tram+Lining

Small investment:

http://www.steeda.com/steeda-s550-ultralite-2-point-g-trac-brace-555-5533/


Best Regards,

TJ

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[garagelogic]

Joe,
Thanks for the first impressions of the R. I suspect the tramlining is worse due in part to those monster 305's up front.

Sorry to hear about your first tiny dent.

How are you finding the road noise in the R? Do you hear everything? Just curious how much louder it is than the GT350 TP?

Good luck with the new R!

Tramlining is due to the cf wheels/Cup2 combo, not the width of the front tire. I had it before switching out the stock setup for the 6GR's and it has disappeared.

 

[FPCV8YO]

Tramlining is due to the cf wheels/Cup2 combo, not the width of the front tire. I had it before switching out the stock setup for the 6GR's and it has disappeared.

What tire are you running on the 6GRs?

 

[MCarsFan]

Honestly. I have wanted an R from day one. I remember watching the live stream when Ford Performance unveiled the car. I knew I HAD to have one. I really liked the TP, but the R is the cats meow. I do not dislike the harness of the ride. Having said that, this would NOT be a car I would want to drive daily. But then again, that's not what this car was designed for.

i think thats the key thing to remember. A lot of us here including myself considered (or still do) the R, but reality is the TP in its current form is already at the limits (if not pass the limit) of daily driveability. I wanted an R too since I saw this car first but then at some point I discovered that if I owned an R, the ownership experience probably wouldnt have been bearable.

I am already having great difficult with the front chin splitter. It rubs extremely easy and its not always about enter/exit ramps but sometimes the roads have large dips and at speed its very difficult to anticipate what will rub and not (there is a road here with a 45 limit and there is a dip and if I dont slow down to say 20 and drive over at an angle, I scrape the under. Now realize that sometimes idiots tailgating you doesnt work well when out of nowhere I slow down from 45 to 20). I cannot begin to think how much the R splitter must be scraping. Also remember TP has a cheap $300 plastic unit, R comes with a one piece that is 6 times more expensive.

Then the other problem is the tires. My god the TP car already throws so many rocks, I got 2 rock chips in my rear impact area in 400 miles that went through the paint to the metal. I cannot imagine how practical those cups are when its 45F or below (which is the case for me for about 4-5 months of a year).

To me, a great car becomes highly not so practicle when it comes in R trim. R is the car you take it to track or go for a spirited drive in completely controlled environment and put maybe 3000-4000 miles a year. Its not a car you can drive 15k miles a year and enjoy it with your family.

I now drove almost 1100 miles with my car, 95% of the time I drive it to grocery, home depot, seaside, restaurants, school for my kid, etc.

The best thing is? I can enjoy this car with my wife and kid. Thats priceless and in the end thats why I didnt go with a corvette z06 or 997 gt3.

 

[garagelogic]

What tire are you running on the 6GRs?

Bridgestone RE-11. 305's on the front.

 

[Zcobra1]

Tramlining is due to the cf wheels/Cup2 combo, not the width of the front tire. I had it before switching out the stock setup for the 6GR's and it has disappeared.

Agree. Front, You are dealing with 2mm less tread, softer compound, and
a different carcass composition. The light wheels also exacerbate the
effect. Much of the ride difference has to be the Cup tires, and the
rocks those tires throw.....

Frankly, if I had a R, I would get a set of the 6GR's and Conti
all season WRS or whatever they are called, in the 305/325
size. For street driving that would be fine, and inclement weather,
and slap those R wheels on for track days and if you are doing a banzai
Sunday morning run.

Lastly, look into adjusting to some (more) toe in, help with the
effect, of course not too much, every little bit helps.

 

[CSL]

Had not thought of it from this perspective, good point. Although, I still think logically it would have been more logical to ask whether he preferred the R considering the harsher ride :cheers:

Not sure what the difference is beyond semantics as to how the question is asked? I asked the question based on Joe's driving impressions of the R. I personally went from a full Griggs equipped 750 rwhp GT500 to the GT350 because of the exact driving characteristics Joe described.

I suspect my car was a bit more harsh than an R, but even so, I made the switch because the driving experience of my GT500 on the street was not very fun....it was work. I went with a track pack GT350 because I came to realize how important street manners actually were to me. It was a tough decision because the track experience was so awesome. However, I was stunned at how fun and capable the track pack is on the track and you truly get the best of both worlds with it. I threw Cup2s on my track pack and the car is FAST. It is faster than most to all cars out there on any given day. For someone who has experienced both the R and track pack, I see is as a very valid question. I personally suspect I would prefer a track pack (exclusivity aside) because of it's versatility.

My hope is [MENTION=13014]ITLRUN[/MENTION] got some times in his track pack with Cup2s before the inferno. Then we can eventually compare the track performance of the 350 and the R on the same tire. That is the type of data many people have hoped to see for quite a while.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

Not sure what the difference is beyond semantics as to how the question is asked? I asked the question based on Joe's driving impressions of the R. I personally went from a full Griggs equipped 750 rwhp GT500 to the GT350 because of the exact driving characteristics Joe described.

I suspect my car was a bit more harsh than an R, but even so, I made the switch because the driving experience of my GT500 on the street was not very fun....it was work. I went with a track pack GT350 because I came to realize how important street manners actually were to me. It was a tough decision because the track experience was so awesome. However, I was stunned at how fun and capable the track pack is on the track and you truly get the best of both worlds with it. I threw Cup2s on my track pack and the car is FAST. It is faster than most to all cars out there on any given day. For someone who has experienced both the R and track pack, I see is as a very valid question. I personally suspect I would prefer a track pack (exclusivity aside) because of it's versatility.

My hope is [MENTION=13014]ITLRUN[/MENTION] got some times in his track pack with Cup2s before the inferno. Then we can eventually compare the track performance of the 350 and the R on the same tire. That is the type of data many people have hoped to see for quite a while.

It really is, potatoe poh-tatoe, ya know

I'm guessing the biggest difference you noticed between the two would be the suspension itself then it sounds like? Magnetic suspension setups are incredible, such a fantastic technology, lets you have great body control for track work/sport driving but also a fairly supple ride in the general context of things considering they are full on sports cars.

Also in for comparisons, even though any results from the OP will largely be "for shits and giggles" :cheers:

 

[Mike02z]

The tramlining is not simply due to the Cup2 tires or CF wheels. All GT350's have tramlining. My car has it. I've gotten used to it but I let my brother drive it yesterday and his first comment was "holy crap this car pulls on uneven surfaces."

I'm sure it's worse on the R for the reasons mention not the least of which is the massive 305's up front.

 

[MCarsFan]

There is a difference of 1cm between the R wheels and the base car. Yes 305s are massive but 295s are no different.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

The tramlining is not simply due to the Cup2 tires or CF wheels. All GT350's have tramlining. My car has it. I've gotten used to it but I let my brother drive it yesterday and his first comment was "holy crap this car pulls on uneven surfaces."

I'm sure it's worse on the R for the reasons mention not the least of which is the massive 305's up front.

Both cars will experience the tramlining, but its more pronounced by the the combination of significantly stickier tires (cup 2's) and the fact that the carbon wheels are almost 50% lighter than the alloy 350 wheels. Very light weight with increased stick = less forces to overcome when the road wants to drag a wheel to the left or right.

The difference in width between the 295 and 305 would be smallest contributing factor of the 3 :cheers:

 

[ITLRUN]

I never got any actual timed laps on the previous car. Heck, I hadn't really gotten comfortable enough to really push that car before the incident.

I'm not an automotive engineer. I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I have some ideas on the whole tramlining issue. The extremely light weight CF wheels on the R model coupled with the aggressive nature of the sticky Cup2 tires magnify the issue. The overall total rotational weight is substantially lower than the standard GT350 wheel/tire so you are "losing" much of the gyroscopical forces wanting to keep the front wheels pointing straight ahead. That coupled with the "sticky" tires really following the shifts in the pavement. *** This is only my theory / opinion. ***

IMO, there is no way in hell the Steeda bar is doing anything other than the placebo effect when it comes to tramlining. No offense [MENTION=7748]tj@steeda[/MENTION]. I have great respect for Steeda and their products. I had an 03 Mach 1 with full Steeda suspension including a 5Link2.

 

[ITLRUN]

Both cars will experience the tramlining, but its more pronounced by the the combination of significantly stickier tires (cup 2's) and the fact that the carbon wheels are almost 50% lighter than the alloy 350 wheels. Very light weight with increased stick = less forces to overcome when the road wants to drag a wheel to the left or right.

The difference in width between the 295 and 305 would be smallest contributing factor of the 3 :cheers:

You took the words right out of my mouth! :cheers:

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

There is a difference of 1cm between the R wheels and the base car. Yes 305s are massive but 295s are no different.

Look at actual tread width. "Sizing" means very little since some tires are "narrow" for their size, or "wider" than the typical variant. The 295's have a relatively small tread width (shoulder of the tire is curved significantly to allow better water passage/daily drive-ability in inclement weather. The 305 cup 2's are more than 10 mm wider in terms of tread width, AKA actual contact patch.

GT350 (Pilot Super Sports):
- 295/35/19 Tread Width = 10.0"
- 305/35/19 Tread Width = 10.7"

GT350R (Pilot Sport Cup 2's):
- 305/30/19 Tread Width = 11.0"
- 315/30/19 Tread Width = 11.7"

So while the sizing would indicate a 10mm increase, the actual increase in contact patch in regards to width is actual a full inch (25.4mm). So fairly significant difference. But the compound and lightweight carbon wheels play a more significant role in tramlining.

 

[MCarsFan]

Look at actual tread width. "Sizing" means very little since some tires are "narrow" for their size, or "wider" than the typical variant. The 295's have a relatively small tread width (shoulder of the tire is curved significantly to allow better water passage/daily drive-ability in inclement weather. The 305 cup 2's are more than 10 mm wider in terms of tread width, AKA actual contact patch.

GT350 (Pilot Super Sports):
- 295/35/19 Tread Width = 10.0"
- 305/35/19 Tread Width = 10.7"

GT350R (Pilot Sport Cup 2's):
- 305/30/19 Tread Width = 11.0"
- 315/30/19 Tread Width = 11.7"

So while the sizing would indicate a 10mm increase, the actual increase in contact patch in regards to width is actual a full inch (25.4mm). So fairly significant difference. But the compound and lightweight carbon wheels play a more significant role in tramlining.

Hmm, didnt know this. Thanks for explaining.

Where do you look up the width information (just curious how other tires are)?

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