Help! traction control info?

[mada808]

Lolwut


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[paul123]

...
The PP is meant for track use, not for daily driving. That's why it comes with summer tires and everything else, since they don't expect anyone to be stupid enough to use a track setup car on regular streets, especially in the winter. Complete overkill and a waste of money for a daily driver, but if you bought it to use as a track toy, that's what it's for.

But shhh, don't tell that to half the people on here lol

Nothing wrong with having the PP parts on a DD aside from the summer tires. They are marginally more useful in summer, at least on the streets, and seemingly much worse (than A/S) when its cold.

And for much of the U.S. its cold more than its warm.

This does make me wonder what the default tires are on other sports cars, e.g. BMW M4.

 

[Barry626]

If the tires don't have grip, you can still lose control if you overdrive the tires. The tires DO matter, and a lot.

:hail:

 

[Barry626]

The ones that annoy me are the people who do stupid things then bitch about Ford selling the PP with summer tires, since they clearly don't understand what they bought, and just bought what they thought would be "cool". There's just been so many threads lately with the cold weather setting in, it's hilarious.

 

[Norm Peterson]

half the country is cold half the year, but people pay more for the PP to get better "Performance" and then have to drive extra careful for half the year because their tires get slicker when its cold :lol:

Truly, it's not all that difficult to keep your driving within the limits of tire grip. Not even with summer tires in the winter, though you have to dial it back from the kind of hammering away at the throttle that you can get away with doing in the summer. It's a ridiculously simple concept.

Even with all-seasons, your mantra should be exactly what they tell us at the drivers' meeting at cold weather track days . . . "cold tires . . .cold tires . . . cold tires". Free advice that could end up being priceless, even if you don't own a PP-equipped car.


Norm

 

[paul123]

Truly, it's not all that difficult to keep your driving within the limits of tire grip. Not even with summer tires in the winter, though you have to dial it back from the kind of hammering away at the throttle that you can get away with doing in the summer. It's a ridiculously simple concept.

Even with all-seasons, your mantra should be exactly what they tell us at the drivers' meeting at cold weather track days . . . "cold tires . . .cold tires . . . cold tires". Free advice that could end up being priceless, even if you don't own a PP-equipped car.

We need someone to get to the bottom of this scientifically rather than speculate over dozens (or hundreds) of postings

http://www.edmunds.com/ford/mustang...g-gt-performance-package-worth-the-money.html
2015 Ford Mustang GT: Performance Package Worth The Money?
May 4, 2015


Braking 60->0 mph at ?F : 108.5 /w PP
Braking 60->0 mph at ?F : 117.9 w/o PP

Braking 60->0 mph @ 30F : ? /w PP
Braking 60->0 mph @ 30F : ? w/o PP

Braking 60->0 mph @ 0F : ? /w PP
Braking 60->0 mph @ 0F : ? w/o PP

 

[paul123]

http://jalopnik.com/i-drove-a-challe...-it-1753762683
I Drove A Challenger Hellcat And I Almost Crashed It

... And this is how I ended up on a twisty road in central Pennsylvania last weekend, trying to regain my composure after I almost ran off the road.


I suspect its cold in PA, and he is on summer tires :shocked:

 

[Norm Peterson]

I'm afraid that 'scientifically' would require the services of a driver skilled in coping with the behavior of cold tires just to get results repeatable enough to have any value. As such, you cannot expect the people having trouble with cold tires to be able to match it. Never mind that it's been a too-much-throttle issue here rather than a matter of braking.

Basically what I'm still trying to get across is that this is still more of a human problem than it is a car equipment shortcoming.

You think that my 50+ years of driving experience including cold weather and worse traction situations, autocross and HPDE (solo) driving experience, plus a basic understanding of vehicle dynamics and a predisposition to pay attention to things like what the current level of tire grip feels like means that I'm only speculating here?

As chance would have it, my oldest granddaughter (18 y/o with maybe a year of driving solo) just got her first object lesson in "cold tires" some time in the last couple of days. She managed to get a little unexpected wheelspin in her 160 HP Mazda 626. The kicker for you guys here is that she knew exactly why it had happened - maybe not with respect to what the ambient temperature was at the moment, just that she'd asked a little too much from her car's all-season tires. Learn from her experience if you'd rather, and know that I'm not making any of this up. It's too serious of a topic and the timing is just too good to pass up.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

http://jalopnik.com/i-drove-a-challe...-it-1753762683
I Drove A Challenger Hellcat And I Almost Crashed It

... And this is how I ended up on a twisty road in central Pennsylvania last weekend, trying to regain my composure after I almost ran off the road.


I suspect its cold in PA, and he is on summer tires :shocked:

He was trying to drive beyond what his skill set could realistically support, and he at least had the stones to admit as much. The only part the car played was making it easy enough to happen at 50 mph in 4th gear. At 20 in 1st or 2nd, far less powerful cars would give you the same kind of ride.

FWIW . . . Any time you start thinking (or saying) OH SHIT, you've just stepped past your depth at least momentarily.


Norm

 

[paul123]

I'm afraid that 'scientifically' would require the services of a driver skilled in coping with the behavior of cold tires just to get results repeatable enough to have any value. As such, you cannot expect the people having trouble with cold tires to be able to match it. Never mind that it's been a too-much-throttle issue here rather than a matter of braking.

agree, I have been focusing more on tires, but the original posting does sound more driver error.

Still it would be interesting to know the stopping power of both A/S and PP tires at 30F and 0F. Maybe Car and Driver can test this for us.

 

[doulos4jc]

I fully expect the rear of my '08 GT to step out a little from time to time during the winter, and always being alert to that possibility is half the battle. It did exactly that this morning (19°F, Michelin PSS tires), mostly because I was intentionally trying to provoke it a little. Emphasis is on "a little", as it was a refresher course to myself about how much or little grip I should be expecting to have available for my normal driving.


Norm

Two points....^^^ this is so wise and true. I do this all the time, testing the edges of the cars capabilities so when I'm in a emergency situation I will have confidence in responding to it. 2nd point, the TC, sport trac, advanc trac is such a confusing, mysterious mess(to me anyway) in how it is going to "control" the car, I turn everything off if the pavement is dry.

 

[Mike A.]

We need someone to get to the bottom of this scientifically rather than speculate over dozens (or hundreds) of postings

"Even though the car was equipped with dynamic stability control, it could not overcome the laws of physics when the all seasons traction limit was exceeded"

[ame]

 

[paul123]

good video. Big difference between A/S and Winters

I would like to see a similar video comparing the 3 tire types on very cold but dry pavement. No snow or slush.

 

[Mike A.]

good video. Big difference between A/S and Winters

I would like to see a similar video comparing the 3 tire types on very cold but dry pavement. No snow or slush.

I'd like to see that as well. I'm in Northern Va and just switched to my wheels with Blizzaks about a week ago. They have so much more grip on cold dry, and cold wet days it's amazing. They aren't constantly hopping in the rain either like the P-Zeros.

 

[paul123]

looks like the data may already be out there. I will have to search a bit more later on. This is A/S vs. Winter on dry pavement. No hard numbers, but still interesting

[ame]

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