Headers?

[ShatterPoints]

I'd look for some honest dyno results before wasting a ton of money. The car comes with short tube headers anyway. Headers, E85 tune, resonator delete and you gain 15 horses, is it worth it?

There is no E85 in my area so that is a pointless exercise for me. A $1900 set of headers and a ten hour install for more noise? Car sounds great stock.

Exactly, which is why the only real reason would be to change how it sounds. If that's what op wants or likes go for it.

Sponsored

 

[CobraCommander]

This is a pretty good idea of what you're going to make with catted L/T's, JLT CAI, and a 93-octane tune.



To get to the 530rwhp+ mark, you're going to need E85, no cats, etc.

 

[ShatterPoints]

This is a pretty good idea of what you're going to make with catted L/T's, JLT CAI, and a 93-octane tune.



To get to the 530rwhp+ mark, you're going to need E85, no cats, etc.

Stock we have 529bhp
If you assume 13% drivetrain loss that's 460whp

In order to get 530+ who you would need to pick up 70+hp somehow. You're not doing that with an intake that in all likelihood doesn't flow more, exhaust which may get you 5hp and a e85 tune that gets you 15hp on a good day. That's only 20hp. You're not getting 70hp without at the very least a cam change. Intake and exhaust don't change VE enough to unlock 70hp.

 

[CobraCommander]

Stock we have 529bhp
If you assume 13% drivetrain loss that's 460whp

In order to get 530+ who you would need to pick up 70+hp somehow. You're not doing that with an intake that in all likelihood doesn't flow more, exhaust which may get you 5hp and a e85 tune that gets you 15hp on a good day. That's only 20hp. You're not getting 70hp without at the very least a cam change. Intake and exhaust don't change VE enough to unlock 70hp.

You're short-changing the exhaust by quite a bit, especially if it's non-catted.

Here is another example of the same setup as that first video, but just no JLT intake:



Very similar #'s.

E85 (Again, REAL E85, as in actually 80%+ ethanol content) is a game-changer on these cars and it allows for more extreme amounts of ignition timing to be used. There are several cars that have seen 530rwhp+ without having to go into the motor.

Is it cheap? No.

Do you need E85 (Again, REAL E85)? Yes.

 

[ShatterPoints]

You're short-changing the exhaust by quite a bit, especially if it's non-catted.

Here is another example of the same setup as that first video, but just no JLT intake:



Very similar #'s.

E85 (Again, REAL E85, as in actually 80%+ ethanol content) is a game-changer on these cars and it allows for more extreme amounts of ignition timing to be used. There are several cars that have seen 530rwhp+ without having to go into the motor.

Is it cheap? No.

Do you need E85 (Again, REAL E85)? Yes.

You might see 5% additional power with e85 alone infact that's what a e85 tune might get you on these cars. I'm extremely skeptical there is 40+hp to be had with full exhaust on these cars.

 

[CobraCommander]

You might see 5% additional power with e85 alone infact that's what a e85 tune might get you on these cars. I'm extremely skeptical there is 40+hp to be had with full exhaust on these cars.

35rwhp gain over stock #'s from E85 tune (And E85 that probably measured out 80%+ ethanol content) and JLT CAI with completely stock exhaust and no other mods:



I mean how many examples do you want, LOL?

E85 is going to allow you to run probably a good 4-5 degrees more of ignition timing over what you can run on 93-octane. That's A LOT.

My car is way beyond just doing this now so it won't be anywhere close to a fair comparison, but I bet you'd get 540rwhp out of the following:

- 2" American Racing L/T's with O/R X-Pipe and their Cat-Back exhaust system

- JLT CAI

- QA1 Carbon Fiber Driveshaft

- E85 Tune on Ignite Red or One Ethanol R

 

[ShatterPoints]

35rwhp gain over stock #'s from E85 tune (And E85 that probably measured out 80%+ ethanol content) and JLT CAI with completely stock exhaust and no other mods:



I mean how many examples do you want, LOL?

E85 is going to allow you to run probably a good 4-5 degrees more of ignition timing over what you can run on 93-octane. That's A LOT.

My car is way beyond just doing this now so it won't be anywhere close to a fair comparison, but I bet you'd get 540rwhp out of the following:

- 2" American Racing L/T's with O/R X-Pipe and their Cat-Back exhaust system

- JLT CAI

- QA1 Carbon Fiber Driveshaft

- E85 Tune on Ignite Red or One Ethanol R

I think we may be saying the same thing?

When I see "rwhp" that to me is hp at the wheels. HP at the wheels takes into account drivetrain loss.

Otherwise a number like 530hp to me is at the crank, or bhp.


With intake, and I really think it's more the tune than intake and tune he got 30hp on e85. I still don't think headers and exhaust will get you another 35-40+hp.

 

[CobraCommander]

I think we may be saying the same thing?

When I see "rwhp" that to me is hp at the wheels. HP at the wheels takes into account drivetrain loss.

Otherwise a number like 530hp to me is at the crank, or bhp.


With intake, and I really think it's more the tune than intake and tune he got 30hp on e85. I still don't think headers and exhaust will get you another 35-40+hp.

Yeah, nobody cares about BHP. Nobody I know on the street uses BHP. It's about what you can put to the ground.

This was 529rwhp, but it's STD - Smoothing 5:



They don't show the correction factor that was used. However, based upon their other videos that do show it, I'm going to guess it's like 1.02 or 1.03

That would put that car around 513-519rwhp if you used SAE - Smoothing 5.

Take the cats out and throw that carbon fiber driveshaft in and you'll get the #'s I'm saying are possible with no motor work.

That's on 1-7/8" Stainless Works headers. ARH is better IMO, and the 2" will flow even better, especially when there are no cats involved.

You just have to be willing to spend the money and run really good quality fuel and it's possible. Unfortunately, most guys aren't willing to do that and/or don't have easy access to good, sweet E85 from a pump so it's just not realistic for them without that.

 

[cactus_kid]

So I would guess possibly 20-30HP gain? Some people cant justify that due to cost for a set of headers. However, it's realistically gonna be the sound that you pay for, in my opinion.

Don't leave out the cost of the obligatory tune. Installation costs. Is hundreds of dollars per HP gain worth it ? Only his hairdresser knows for sure.

 

[cactus_kid]

Since you are in TX like me, you'll just need to make sure that you have catalytic converters on the car when it is inspected and that it has no CEL's. As long as those two things are good, you'll pass any computer or visual inspection that's done on the car.

I'm not sure on the particulars in Travis county there in Austin, but I highly doubt you'll have to pass a sniffer test so you can run it on 93 or E85 (whatever you are tuned for) when you go inspect it.

He's still going to need a tune. E85/93-91/Shut off the secondary OB2 sensors. W/o the latter, he's gonna throw codes like my ex wife attracted flies.

 

[cactus_kid]

So sad that PBD used the car they did. Even Ford knows the HEP GT350s are the fastest ..............

 

[CobraCommander]

If you shop around and buy all this stuff at once, you can get these parts for way less, but here is your "retail" pricing breakdown:

- ARH 2" L/T Headers with O/R X-Pipe and Cat-Back: $3,769.45

- JLT CAI: $349.00

- QA1 Carbon Fiber Driveshaft: $1,768.68

- Lund Racing nGauge with Flex and E85R Tune: $879.00

Total: $6,766.13

That doesn't include any labor or fuel.

It's a money man's game fellas.

If you want to make REAL, LEGIT power N/A, you're gonna have to pay-up and also be able to utilize E85 that's of a quality source (Tests 75%+ ethanol content) and/or Race E85 (One Ethanol or Ignite).

93-Octane fuel is going to be a major limiting factor regardless of whether you stay N/A or if you're going to go with forced induction.

IF you can get E85 that actually tests at 85% ethanol content, it's effective octane rating is probably around 104-108. As a comparison, the effective octane rating of One Ethanol R is 117. You also need to understand that it's probably about 90% ethanol that's been specifically formulated for racing applications and the other 10% is race-fuel.

Again, let's just say the E85 you get from a Kroger pump actually tests right at 85% ethanol. Even with that, the quality of ethanol that's in there isn't of the same as the quality of the One Ethanol R and the remaining 15% is who knows what. Might as well be chocolate milk by comparison. It might not seem like much, but it's a HUGE difference especially if you are trying to wring out an N/A combination.

 

[Bcobb85]

That's on 1-7/8" Stainless Works headers. ARH is better IMO, and the 2" will flow even better, especially when there are no cats involved.

I'm currently looking into getting the ARH long system (with factory mufflers). I've been under the assumption that the 2" Headers were meant for boosted applications. I've always been recommended the 1-7/8" for bolt-on N/A. Do you have info showing that the 2" headers make more power than the 1-7/8" on our cars N/A? Just want to make sure I get the right size. I plan to just run the ARH long system with a Lund E85 tune.

 

[CobraCommander]

I'm currently looking into getting the ARH long system (with factory mufflers). I've been under the assumption that the 2" Headers were meant for boosted applications. I've always been recommended the 1-7/8" for bolt-on N/A. Do you have info showing that the 2" headers make more power than the 1-7/8" on our cars N/A? Just want to make sure I get the right size. I plan to just run the ARH long system with a Lund E85 tune.

You'll definitely see a bigger gain on a boosted application with a 2" primary, especially at higher boost levels. I have not seen any dyno information comparing the power produced or gains seen between 2" primaries and 1-7/8" primaries so I have no empirical data to show you in regards to that.

I was initially concerned with clearance issues, but I asked a YouTube user by the name NDMF GT350 about it and he indicated he had no issues with them on his car and it seems to be running exceptionally well given the cars he's either beating or staying with.

 

[Bcobb85]

You'll definitely see a bigger gain on a boosted application with a 2" primary, especially at higher boost levels. I have not seen any dyno information comparing the power produced or gains seen between 2" primaries and 1-7/8" primaries so I have no empirical data to show you in regards to that.

I was initially concerned with clearance issues, but I asked a YouTube user by the name NDMF GT350 about it and he indicated he had no issues with them on his car and it seems to be running exceptionally well given the cars he's either beating or staying with.

Gotcha, yea, I've seen that guys vids as well. I asked him the same question and he was running the 2" because he was planning to go boost in the future. Thought perhaps you knew something I didn't about 2" primaries on N/A.

Sponsored