GT350R vs Gt350 Tech pack. Same track, same driver. Driving Impressions

[nastang87xx]

I will try these pads again when I change out my rotors and re-evaluate. It was my fault for running these pads without ensuring the rotors had all previous material removed first. I was not aware of this.

Yes, that is very key. 400 grit sand paper to your rotors on both sides and lightly give them a little brushing and that should do it. Ideally you should change rotors but for $800 a full set, yikes.

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[Stuntman]

You'll burn through pads more at Road America than most tracks. Pads also wesr faster the more they are worn. Depending on how many sessions you do a day and your experience level, You may only get 1-2 weekends out of stock pads. IMO they are extremely impressive to be great on the street and hold up on track.

 

[CSL]

Hey guys...I'm not trying to trash a vendor hear. After talking with them it sounds as though their compound and the stock compound do not play well together. I had 1100 street miles on my car before I changed to the aftermarket pads. I will try these pads again when I change out my rotors and re-evaluate. It was my fault for running these pads without ensuring the rotors had all previous material removed first. I was not aware of this.

The aftermarket pads never failed to stop or faded. They did not have good initial bite and did not stop the car without a lot more pedal pressure than the stockers.

I was EXTREMELY surprised the stock pads put up with the abuse at Road America. We will see how they fare after 15 sessions at Road America. I am still convinced that aftermarket pads will be required. I just don't understand how brake pads designed to work at 0 degrees can function properly at 1500 degrees for an extended period of time. Pads are being changed back to stock and next weekend they will be put to the test!

Thanks for this follow up. You shouldn't need a new rotor to go with a new pad. If the pad is properly bedded it should be a non-issue. I've never had a rotor not accept a new pad, so my assumption is these pads aren't any better than stock. If they are an aberrant pad that needs a new rotor to perform then probably not worth it anyway. Thanks for offering up the impressions and comparison.

 

[snaproll]

Hey guys...I'm not trying to trash a vendor hear. After talking with them it sounds as though their compound and the stock compound do not play well together. I had 1100 street miles on my car before I changed to the aftermarket pads. I will try these pads again when I change out my rotors and re-evaluate. It was my fault for running these pads without ensuring the rotors had all previous material removed first. I was not aware of this.

The aftermarket pads never failed to stop or faded. They did not have good initial bite and did not stop the car without a lot more pedal pressure than the stockers.

I was EXTREMELY surprised the stock pads put up with the abuse at Road America. We will see how they fare after 15 sessions at Road America. I am still convinced that aftermarket pads will be required. I just don't understand how brake pads designed to work at 0 degrees can function properly at 1500 degrees for an extended period of time. Pads are being changed back to stock and next weekend they will be put to the test!

A steak dinner says it doesn't matter if you change rotors. Crappy pads will still be crappy. Before Canada corner turn you should have enough heat in them to freshly surface everything. I know, I know, you are supposed to clean up transfer material and soap and water discs twice followed by careful bedding with 6 stops from a medium speed blah blah blah - all of which I used to do diligently until some TRANS am crew chief laughed at me and told me it doesn't matter. Maybe for street use it can keep pulsation out of the pedal but not a huge factor on a race track in my experience.

 

[CSL]

A steak dinner says it doesn't matter if you change rotors. Crappy pads will still be crappy. Before Canada corner turn you should have enough heat in them to freshly surface everything. I know, I know, you are supposed to clean up transfer material and soap and water discs twice followed by careful bedding with 6 stops from a medium speed blah blah blah - all of which I used to do diligently until some TRANS am crew chief laughed at me and told me it doesn't matter. Maybe for street use it can keep pulsation out of the pedal but not a huge factor on a race track in my experience.

Yup, well said.

 

[Stuntman]

There's been quite a few incorrect posts regarding brake pads.

Brake pad compounding is a very complex science/black art. Pad manufacturers use many different compounds of different composition, quantities, and manufacturing processes for friction and lubrication of the rotor. These compounds respond differently at different temperatures and it is very common to have a pad be adversely affected by the residual pad material embedded in the rotor from a previous pad.

Because the pad material is embedded in the rotor, running an aggressive pad will not remove the old material, nor taking sandpaper to the rotor.

Some pads work fine on other material, but some are EXTREMELY sensitive and incompatible with other material. To do it "right" is expensive and does require virgin rotors.

Without testing your aftermarket pads on virgin rotors, you know if the problem was due to incompatible materials or if thst is just the nature of the pad. At least you felt the Tech Pack and know what the OEM pads should feel like, because its possible the OEM pads don't like the aftermarket material you just ran on it.

0.02

 

[snaproll]

There's been quite a few incorrect posts regarding brake pads.

Brake pad compounding is a very complex science/black art. Pad manufacturers use many different compounds of different composition, quantities, and manufacturing processes for friction and lubrication of the rotor. These compounds respond differently at different temperatures and it is very common to have a pad be adversely affected by the residual pad material embedded in the rotor from a previous pad.

Because the pad material is embedded in the rotor, running an aggressive pad will not remove the old material, nor taking sandpaper to the rotor.

Some pads work fine on other material, but some are EXTREMELY sensitive and incompatible with other material. To do it "right" is expensive and does require virgin rotors.

Without testing your aftermarket pads on virgin rotors, you know if the problem was due to incompatible materials or if thst is just the nature of the pad. At least you felt the Tech Pack and know what the OEM pads should feel like, because its possible the OEM pads don't like the aftermarket material you just ran on it.

0.02

Not buying it. Nothing gets "imbedded" in the iron of a rotor and they don't warp either. I understand it's possible to change composition of the iron with some kind of localized overheating due in part to material transfer inconsistencies. Only once have I had a vibration from a compound swap and it went away with some more heat. Obviously it's nice to have fresh rotors but it's certainly not mandatory. It's just not.

 

[machsmith]

Tommy just sold 1/2 million brake pads!!!! ;)
Callaghan's make the best!

 

[Voodooo]

There's been quite a few incorrect posts regarding brake pads.

Brake pad compounding is a very complex science/black art. Pad manufacturers use many different compounds of different composition, quantities, and manufacturing processes for friction and lubrication of the rotor. These compounds respond differently at different temperatures and it is very common to have a pad be adversely affected by the residual pad material embedded in the rotor from a previous pad.

Because the pad material is embedded in the rotor, running an aggressive pad will not remove the old material, nor taking sandpaper to the rotor.

Some pads work fine on other material, but some are EXTREMELY sensitive and incompatible with other material. To do it "right" is expensive and does require virgin rotors.

Without testing your aftermarket pads on virgin rotors, you know if the problem was due to incompatible materials or if thst is just the nature of the pad. At least you felt the Tech Pack and know what the OEM pads should feel like, because its possible the OEM pads don't like the aftermarket material you just ran on it.

0.02

You are completely correct. Well said

 

[Voodooo]

Not buying it. Nothing gets "imbedded" in the iron of a rotor and they don't warp either. I understand it's possible to change composition of the iron with some kind of localized overheating due in part to material transfer inconsistencies. Only once have I had a vibration from a compound swap and it went away with some more heat. Obviously it's nice to have fresh rotors but it's certainly not mandatory. It's just not.

You are aware of how many heat cycles the rotors and pads go through correct? Do you know what the temps are of the pads and rotors? All pads have different compounds and adhesives. This plays a huge factor in the braking and braking performance. And I can't believe you said they don't warp! Wow.
If you are aware, the wheel bearings, rotors, pads, calipers, wheel all help pull heat from the braking system. Saying nothing get imbedded into the rotor is ridiculous, heat does and this effects the temperature and hardness of the cast iron rotor. Once the iron becomes to hot it will glaze so do the pads. At that point it's foolish to try and save them, don't even waste time trying to resurface them. Not worth it. If your pads are glazed or the temps are to high when measured by a IR gun or temp strips on the calipers plan on a fluid flush also.

 

[snaproll]

You are aware of how many heat cycles the rotors and pads go through correct? Do you know what the temps are of the pads and rotors? All pads have different compounds and adhesives. This plays a huge factor in the braking and braking performance. And I can't believe you said they don't warp! Wow.
If you are aware, the wheel bearings, rotors, pads, calipers, wheel all help pull heat from the braking system. Saying nothing get imbedded into the rotor is ridiculous, heat does and this effects the temperature and hardness of the cast iron rotor. Once the iron becomes to hot it will glaze so do the pads. At that point it's foolish to try and save them, don't even waste time trying to resurface them. Not worth it. If your pads are glazed or the temps are to high when measured by a IR gun or temp strips on the calipers plan on a fluid flush also.

Mr Voodoo,

There's some truth in what you suggest though first let me say that I have learned mustang brakes through the school of hard knocks tracking mustangs for 25 years, racing for more than 10. My point was to respond to the OP that it is certainly possible and common to change pad compounds successfully on used rotors. It's done all the time. It may require a longer bedding process. It's POSSIBLE that brake shudder will not resolve with bedding but shudder or vibration is the primary issue in my experience with brake pad swaps if anything. The OP said nothing about vibration. He said they didn't work so well and that, to me, is probably a pad that fades. I have no idea what he's using but crappy ceramic street pads will do that on track. Rock hard pedal but car won't stop. I've been there more than once.

The vibration resulting from Uneven pad transfer is what most refer to as "warping." Or the bearing or surfaces aren't true and you get the same effect as the pad simply doesn't contact the rotor evenly. With continued use, the rotor hardness can become an issue and the rotor is junk. I agree you can junk rotors but they don't warp. I won't pretend to be a metallurgist but the hardness can change then the wear rate changes and the problem becomes worse and worse.

Anyway, the real racing brake suppliers have this info explained in detail in various places. New compounds, used rotors; the myths of warping racing brakes, etc. Don't take my word for it.

I try to comment when I feel I can save someone some time and money. Being OCD about cleaning new rotors with a tooth brush and paranoid about using only new pads and rotors together are old wives tales.

Some of the discussions on here remind me of things I used to believe about track use before I figured out what actually works. :cheers:

 

[Voodooo]

Mr Voodoo,

There's some truth in what you suggest though first let me say that I have learned mustang brakes through the school of hard knocks tracking mustangs for 25 years, racing for more than 10. My point was to respond to the OP that it is certainly possible and common to change pad compounds successfully on used rotors. It's done all the time. It may require a longer bedding process. It's POSSIBLE that brake shudder will not resolve with bedding but shudder or vibration is the primary issue in my experience with brake pad swaps if anything. The OP said nothing about vibration. He said they didn't work so well and that, to me, is probably a pad that fades. I have no idea what he's using but crappy ceramic street pads will do that on track. Rock hard pedal but car won't stop. I've been there more than once.

The vibration resulting from Uneven pad transfer is what most refer to as "warping." Or the bearing or surfaces aren't true and you get the same effect as the pad simply doesn't contact the rotor evenly. With continued use, the rotor hardness can become an issue and the rotor is junk. I agree you can junk rotors but they don't warp. I won't pretend to be a metallurgist but the hardness can change then the wear rate changes and the problem becomes worse and worse.

Anyway, the real racing brake suppliers have this info explained in detail in various places. New compounds, used rotors; the myths of warping racing brakes, etc. Don't take my word for it.

I try to comment when I feel I can save someone some time and money. Being OCD about cleaning new rotors with a tooth brush and paranoid about using only new pads and rotors together are old wives tales.

Some of the discussions on here remind me of things I used to believe about track use before I figured out what actually works. :cheers:

:cheers:
I agree with you!

 

[EF300]

Tommy just sold 1/2 million brake pads!!!! ;)
Callaghan's make the best!

Knock knock knock, housekeeping u want .........

 

[ThreeFiveO]

That's when the whores come in

 

[EF300]

That's when the whores come in

you screw 1 hooker and u never hear the end of it.

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