GT350 vs. Z/28

[DivineStrike]

That would be true, only if the info I posted in the past hasn't pop up true over the last few months.

If it's wrong then it's wrong, if it already came true it's kinda difficult to discredit that info.

I will never out my sources, I wish TN wouldn't of did that because this is a high traffic topic and it could potentially funnel a lot of nonsense to a Pro driver. If he wants to join the nonsense he can become a member here. It was provided by a famous driver, it should have stopped at that. TN did actually set it straight. Since the picture didn't reveal anything but a Spec cage and I wasn't sure if it was okay to pass that along. I figured since he put it on social media, it was free to distribute but still didn't want to bother him. I never asked him a single question, I began trying to identify the cage. I would have never assumed it was a GT given that Dean is in PWC and the Z/28.R is there. I never thought that Ford would be so bold as to put a GT against a z28 on the public stage. I also figured it was R&D done from an existing R-C to a R-S for the SCCA, unless Dean was going to CTSC. It only seemed reasonable... That is not the case...

Do you think I broke into Ford's patent office and snapped the Prototype Cobra Emblems myself? All Double-Oh Kevin... I was in Intel at one time but not to that extent.


Boo hooing is boo hooing and that is all that you are doing. Just because a few of you in here was soooooooooo sure I was wrong on every single topic that just popped up, one after another. then what? YOu get salty because you don't have the b@lls to tell me I was right. Get over it, having a vendetta against a forum poster because his topics of discussion are seemingly correct is kinda lame. I can't imagine a world where people feel the need to control what another person says, whether it comes true or not.

It's time to get personal because that is all we have left to argue. I have done this for 5 years, I deal with this on a monthly basis. Whining in public only pleases me. Although, it gets kinda sad watching a few of you wallow in misery, not being able to resist this "Pill".


Do all you can to shuffle those "Lies" to the rear of the conversation. We haven't been discussing any of the original argument. That was won days ago... Now I'm forced to hear your pouting, one after another, lined up to the door.

We are no longer talking about the Motorsport side, the OEM side is laughable, The Ring has been shut down now especially after Chevy cheated the watch and the ATS-V just hit 3800lbs.

That is a lot to deal with in the last 10 days...

In the next couple of days, we will hopefully see my prices were correct, lap times and performance and MY info (confirmed). I put specific info up for a reason, TO BE ANALYZED. I try to get pretty specific, like I did with the GT's weight. We didn't get a 3500lbs GT, EU got it then added the PP and Premium stuff standard. If you think making a punctuation error discovery or that a sense of humor is lost on you is going to bother me, think again. I make specific statements knowing that they could possibly be wrong, these are BRAND NEW CARS I am speculating about here. I gather from sources just as everyone else.

Not asking you to reveal sources, just for you to acknowledge whether it's public info or not. Which in this case of the picture, it is. A lot of your info is. And not all of your info has come true. Regardless if whether you have good info or not, the dishonest comments you make discredit you. Again it doesn't matter whether some of it is true, people just aren't going to trust you.

Anyhow I've spoken my piece you can either heed it and provide a more positive experience on the forums, or you can not.

Sponsored

 

[thePill]

All because a select few were wrong.

Wallow in your own misery. I will be doing this for a loooooong time.


YOU WERE WRONG, DEAL WITH IT, MOVE ON.

 

[thePill]

110.5 inch wheelbase in SCCA confirmed from 2012-2014.

(Provided by driver)

 

[thePill]

That isn't what you portray tho. You type like everything you say is fact and you have the inside scoop on everything. Then if anyone questions it or ask for proof, you can't answer. You give tons of numbers, so I'm sure some may be right. So does that mean you had the inside scoop, or a good guess.

What I type today may not become fact for a loooooong time. Trying to somehow discredit my methods of info gathering just to discredit the info is bad. That tells me I hit a home run, the silence across the internet on some of these issues pleases me to no end.

thePill shut them up...

Inside scoop or best guess, it is all speculation until a press release. Do you think I magically guessed the 200lbs weight reduction in the Alpha days before the release? Do you think I guessed the z28's Nurburgring Performance? Or the GT500? Or the GT350? Do you think I guessed the weights of the ZL1, GT500, z28 or the S550's Program? Did I guess the S550's wheelbase waaaaay back in 2011? Do you think I guessed the ATS-V's weight? Do you think I'm guessing at the 6th Gen's MSRP and weight? Did I guess the 2015 Mustang's MSRP back in June 2013?

Did I make up the need for a shorter 5th Gen wheelbase? Or that major equipment or rule changes were needed for the Camaro and z28?

Everything counter-argument posted here has just been a winding dead end path to nothing. Stuntman would rather go off course than admit these things came true. He's not so vocal now is he?

All the "Matter of facts" he brought to the discussion (as well as many of the last few posters) were just side arguments plucked from the contents of the original debate. Unfortunatly, some of those counter-arguemnts brought some of my topics to light. The 110.5 inch wheelbase is one of them. You guys were so set on thinking how crazy an idea it was for thePill to call for a shorter wheelbase... Yet Pro teams decided that years ago. Ha Ha!!! Wheelbase to Track Ratio??? thePill's an idiot!!! We need more tire!!!! (which usually leads to a track increase).

thePill thinks the ATS-V is gonna weigh 3750lbs??? LOL!!!! Well, I was wrong, it was 3800lbs and a 6th Gen under that seems difficult.


Every single topic I vrought up above was aquired through Facebook one way or another. Wither it was to exchange emails, get phone numbers, pictures, info, leaks.... ALL FACEBOOK. The 6th Gen was leaked on Facebook...

Don't worry how or who I got info from, there is a lot I don't talk about because I personally don't believe it. I got quite a few Voodoo warnings however, I decided against reporting that because I didn't believe it.... Facebook...

I heard the S550 was going to be on a unique platform... I never said any of that, in fact, I went on to break down the CD4 because I had heard that rumor, the Mustang's IRS was used and a one-off platform didn't seem feasible.. So I ignored the emails... My bad, it was my judgement and that is that. Know where I acquired this info initially? Facebook...

Hell, some of you on here are friends with me on Facebook. At one time, I offered a roll of $$$ to whoever got me z28 and GT350 info at Nurburgring (I posted the picture of the cash)... Guess what? SOLD!!!

I understand the mission, discredit the messenger so readers will abandon the message. Except, my message hasn't been abandoned... You fools took my literature right back over to Camaro5 and 6 and it has SHUT THEM UP. Maybe if you ignore the ATS-V's curb weight it will go away...

...and this isn't the end of thePill's insane lies, apparently I need to keep dancing around here for another 2 weeks until they release info. I am hoping that a rumored May 2nd info release holds true. I have literally hammered the z28 to the cross and I am running out of nails. If what I know about potential 6th Gen MSRP's are true, Ford could have very well intend on sticking a Base GT350 right at the 2016 SS Track Package option. We might be looking at a potential 3850-3900lbs 2016 Camaro that cost $41,000-$43,000. While Ford may offer a GT350 for only $5000-$6000 more.

This is a very bad potential scenario for the Camaro...

Edit: Even when I started this thread in 2013, I was receiving conflicting model year rumors. Right off the bat, 2015, 2016, 2015, 2016. This was debated here on M6G's PM. I still have the PM. I was stuck between half a dozen Ford employees arguing if a 2015 could have been done. Back and forth for 2 weeks.... We just confirmed that 2015MY info this week.


The guy who set the MY straight (member name withheld) Given to ME on 26 November 2013,

The mustang program has changed several times. Originally, in 2011, everything was together (SVT, Coupe, Convertible, RHD). Then, SVT and RHD were delayed until 16MY, with SVT being early 16MY and RHD being late 16MY. Then coupe/convertible were split, 3 months apart. Then, SVT was pulled ahead to be technically a 15MY, even though it comes out in mid 2015.


Originally Posted by XXXXXXXXX
It will be a 2015 model year vehicle but won't be available until summer 2015. So it is referred to as a 2016MY vehicle by people working on the program. It started as a 2016MY vehicle but was pulled up about 6 months ago. This is where some confusion is spewing.

Ahhhh, okay... That is strange, someone just told me to change it to "2016" GT350 (so I did), then I got another from you.

I doubt this individual in question would know about any accelerated program. He also admits this openly...

Believe it or not, thePill is just a leak tool these guys use to out info. Most of my "speculation" is in fact source driven. If I see a picture, I'm posting it with no need to verify. We can troubleshoot a picture here.


Here we see that my "Summer 2013" R&D prediction I talked about a few days ago wasn't really a prediction. It was handed to ME personally....




There is a whole world behind thePill's door that none of you ever get to see. All I can do is open it..

So, there's the door... It's either in or out...

 

[Taneras]

This is a public image.

 

[DivineStrike]

All because a select few were wrong.

Wallow in your own misery. I will be doing this for a loooooong time.


YOU WERE WRONG, DEAL WITH IT, MOVE ON.

Lol, during our little arguments you were the one that was wrong. You just never acknowledged it.

I don't have any misery to wallow in, nor anything to move on from. And I'm not trying to rehash any old arguments either.

 

[Stuntman]

Did I make up the need for a shorter 5th Gen wheelbase? Or that major equipment or rule changes were needed for the Camaro and z28?

You imply the race camaros have entire carbon bodies when in fact they only have carbon doors, hood, and trunk. And it appears every Z28 race version has the stock wheelbase and only one team ran a shortened one years ago.

You keep harping on this wheelbase:track width ratio and the "Golden Ratio" (Which you claim YOU created). However:

Z28:
112.3"
66.14 F 64.65 R
= 1.70/1.74


S550 GT:
107.1"
62.3 64.9
= 1.72/1.65

S197 GT:
107.1"
62.0 62.9
=1.73/1.70


You use this argument all the time to justify how crappy the Camaro is yet:
*If the Camaro has a horrible WB:TR and is inherently a horrible car due to this geometry, then so does the S197...

Since you never take in to consideration the fact that the front and rear track widths are not the same and none of these cars are a perfect rectangle but are trapezoidal, and since the effect of front to rear width difference has a significant effect on the inherent design and balance of the car.. you only argue a small piece of a very large puzzle, so like most of your posts: you really don't know what you're talking about from a technical standpoint.

-You made a ton of claims of the GT350's lap time at the Nurburgring
-Then you call the GT350 at the nurburgring an R-C or R-S "RaceCar" (thus rendering all of your previous statements about its nurburgring invalid).
-SO: Either you were wrong about the 350's Nurburgring performance, or you were wrong that it's a "racecar".

-You were wrong about when the restrictor was lifted in the 302R (among many other details)
-You were wrong about tire pressure's effect on F-R weight distribution

-You posted a pic of Dean's caged S550 that he put up on facebook and said it was given specifically to you and "IN FACT" was a GT350R-C and near completion.
-Then you say its going to be a "GT".
-Then you say "He didn't provide any info other than "2015" and that's it."
-SO: Either you lied about Dean giving you the pic and you just took it from his Facebook page, you lied about knowing that its a GT350R-C, you lied about it being a S550 GT, or you just make things up... So no matter what: if it turns out to be a GT, 350R-C in CTSCC or 350R-S in PWC, you will be right


I'm in the same boat as Divine. I'm tired of pointing out all of your lies, and defending myself when you constantly misquote me. You didn't "win" by me not posting every hour like you do; and I likely won't much more since I have better things to do than point out your inaccurate statements and contradictions. Anyone with common sense and reasoning can see through you and your method of 'proof': When you contradict yourself and ignore the times you were wrong (after the fact), and by throwing enough sh*t at the wall, eventually something will stick; and you will always be right .

Keep on fightin' the good fight Brian Williams ;)

 

[thePill]

Nope, never said any of that.

Read it and weep, or don't, as long as my other readers know what's up.

Stuntman, you should just remain silent. I have a feeling the moderators are after you.

 

[Sabre]

You imply the race camaros have entire carbon bodies when in fact they only have carbon doors, hood, and trunk. And it appears every Z28 race version has the stock wheelbase and only one team ran a shortened one years ago.

You keep harping on this wheelbase:track width ratio and the "Golden Ratio" (Which you claim YOU created). However:

Z28:
112.3"
66.14 F 64.65 R
= 1.70/1.74


S550 GT:
107.1"
62.3 64.9
= 1.72/1.65

S197 GT:
107.1"
62.0 62.9
=1.73/1.70


You use this argument all the time to justify how crappy the Camaro is yet:
*If the Camaro has a horrible WB:TR and is inherently a horrible car due to this geometry, then so does the S197...

Since you never take in to consideration the fact that the front and rear track widths are not the same and none of these cars are a perfect rectangle but are trapezoidal, and since the effect of front to rear width difference has a significant effect on the inherent design and balance of the car.. you only argue a small piece of a very large puzzle, so like most of your posts: you really don't know what you're talking about from a technical standpoint.

-You made a ton of claims of the GT350's lap time at the Nurburgring
-Then you call the GT350 at the nurburgring an R-C or R-S "RaceCar" (thus rendering all of your previous statements about its nurburgring invalid).
-SO: Either you were wrong about the 350's Nurburgring performance, or you were wrong that it's a "racecar".

-You were wrong about when the restrictor was lifted in the 302R (among many other details)
-You were wrong about tire pressure's effect on F-R weight distribution

-You posted a pic of Dean's caged S550 that he put up on facebook and said it was given specifically to you and "IN FACT" was a GT350R-C and near completion.
-Then you say its going to be a "GT".
-Then you say "He didn't provide any info other than "2015" and that's it."
-SO: Either you lied about Dean giving you the pic and you just took it from his Facebook page, you lied about knowing that its a GT350R-C, you lied about it being a S550 GT, or you just make things up... So no matter what: if it turns out to be a GT, 350R-C in CTSCC or 350R-S in PWC, you will be right


I'm in the same boat as Divine. I'm tired of pointing out all of your lies, and defending myself when you constantly misquote me. You didn't "win" by me not posting every hour like you do; and I likely won't much more since I have better things to do than point out your inaccurate statements and contradictions. Anyone with common sense and reasoning can see through you and your method of 'proof': When you contradict yourself and ignore the times you were wrong (after the fact), and by throwing enough sh*t at the wall, eventually something will stick; and you will always be right .

Keep on fightin' the good fight Brian Williams ;)

Hear, hear!! Couldn't agree more!


Notice how in his retorts thePill uses a classic distract and deflect method to steer you away from the topic you're calling him out on. He uses a large amount of paragraphs to highlight all that he's been posting about for the last several months, but avoids the issue you've caught him on.

As Stuntman alluded to....if you take a topic and make enough predictions ( or "guesses" in thePill's case ) about it one of them might be correct and then he can jump up and down while yelling, "See....I was right!" We could all play that game, but most of us have more integrity that.

Regarding the photo, he was finally forced to say:

"I figured since he put it on social media, it was free to distribute but still didn't want to bother him."

So it turns out all of us...you, me and the cat next door...were "given" the photo every bit as much as it was "given" to thePill. He seems to blow this off, saying we are "Boo Hooing". Apparently the concept that the lack of honesty and integrity in your statements, calls into question the entirety of your credibility, is foreign to him.

Regarding the contents of the photo he says:

"I would have never assumed it was a GT given that Dean is in PWC and the Z/28.R is there. I never thought that Ford would be so bold as to put a GT against a z28 on the public stage. I also figured it was R&D done from an existing R-C to a R-S for the SCCA, unless Dean was going to CTSC. It only seemed reasonable."

So it turns out he doesn't know everything like he thinks he does, but is more than willing to tell us what we're seeing ( what he wants us to believe we are seeing ) without knowing all the facts...or apparently doing much investigation before making his grand announcements.

He presents this information as King thePill, gives his own explanation and then tells us we may now bow down before him in eternal gratitude.

His psychosis and self aggrandizement are complete.

 

[JustACarGuy]

Nope, never said any of that.

Read it and weep, or don't, as long as my other readers know what's up.

Stuntman, you should just remain silent. I have a feeling the moderators are after you.

Yes Stuntman...you should just remain quiet.

That way thePill can infect more readers that aren't in the know about his deceiving posts and gain more followers due to his "insightful" and "inside" knowledge.

That way thePill can go on unchallenged, and say whatever the heck he wants and then feel good about it later when his prediction (the 3 or 4 or 5 predictions he made about one subject) comes true and he can gloat in all his glory.

I'm sure the moderators are after you Stuntman.....we all know how much they hate users whom challenge others posts using facts, references, and also while not resorting to childish name-calling.

 

[w3rkn]

That isn't what you portray tho. You type like everything you say is fact and you have the inside scoop on everything. Then if anyone questions it or ask for proof, you can't answer. You give tons of numbers, so I'm sure some may be right. So does that mean you had the inside scoop, or a good guess.

WHat?

I don't get that impression at all. The Pill is a source of info. Who cares if he posts a few facts that are wrong, perhaps they were given to him wrongly on purpose.

Point is, only "certain people" want to argue about minutia and non-facts. They are the trolls who have an agenda, but the Pill does a good job of running them through the truth mill and landing on a consensus.

You don't have to like the Pill, to accept his knowledge. Even is it is presented in a biased way... but that is for all the comic relief, aimed at the mullet-heads.


Though I will admit, not every Camaro owner wants to be Joe Dirt.

 

[w3rkn]

You imply the race camaros have entire carbon bodies when in fact they only have carbon doors, hood, and trunk. And it appears every Z28 race version has the stock wheelbase and only one team ran a shortened one years ago.

You keep harping on this wheelbase:track width ratio and the "Golden Ratio" (Which you claim YOU created). However:

Z28:
112.3"
66.14 F 64.65 R
= 1.70/1.74


S550 GT:
107.1"
62.3 64.9
= 1.72/1.65

S197 GT:
107.1"
62.0 62.9
=1.73/1.70


You use this argument all the time to justify how crappy the Camaro is yet:
*If the Camaro has a horrible WB:TR and is inherently a horrible car due to this geometry, then so does the S197...

Since you never take in to consideration the fact that the front and rear track widths are not the same and none of these cars are a perfect rectangle but are trapezoidal, and since the effect of front to rear width difference has a significant effect on the inherent design and balance of the car.. you only argue a small piece of a very large puzzle, so like most of your posts: you really don't know what you're talking about from a technical standpoint.

-You made a ton of claims of the GT350's lap time at the Nurburgring
-Then you call the GT350 at the nurburgring an R-C or R-S "RaceCar" (thus rendering all of your previous statements about its nurburgring invalid).
-SO: Either you were wrong about the 350's Nurburgring performance, or you were wrong that it's a "racecar".

-You were wrong about when the restrictor was lifted in the 302R (among many other details)
-You were wrong about tire pressure's effect on F-R weight distribution

-You posted a pic of Dean's caged S550 that he put up on facebook and said it was given specifically to you and "IN FACT" was a GT350R-C and near completion.
-Then you say its going to be a "GT".
-Then you say "He didn't provide any info other than "2015" and that's it."
-SO: Either you lied about Dean giving you the pic and you just took it from his Facebook page, you lied about knowing that its a GT350R-C, you lied about it being a S550 GT, or you just make things up... So no matter what: if it turns out to be a GT, 350R-C in CTSCC or 350R-S in PWC, you will be right


I'm in the same boat as Divine. I'm tired of pointing out all of your lies, and defending myself when you constantly misquote me. You didn't "win" by me not posting every hour like you do; and I likely won't much more since I have better things to do than point out your inaccurate statements and contradictions. Anyone with common sense and reasoning can see through you and your method of 'proof': When you contradict yourself and ignore the times you were wrong (after the fact), and by throwing enough sh*t at the wall, eventually something will stick; and you will always be right .

Keep on fightin' the good fight Brian Williams ;)

But have you noticed....

That YOU didn't come here and open a thread about anything your discussing? You follow The Pill and look for inaccuracies. Why didn't you release any of you know-how & knowledge on these subject months/years ago?

Why now are you thread-crapping factoids, because someone was wrong?
The Pill concedes when he is wrong. But look at your post I quoted, where was your diatribe on the Golden Ratio last year? Why now is it, that you have all the answers?


I would like you to go in-depth on any subject... because I could waste my day picking it apart too, if I was a troll.

 

[Taneras]

That YOU didn't come here and open a thread about anything your discussing? You follow The Pill and look for inaccuracies. Why didn't you release any of you know-how & knowledge on these subject months/years ago?

I'm just wondering, why does it matter?

Who cares what his motives are, if he is right in a critique of someone else's post then that's all that should matter.

 

[JustACarGuy]

WHat?

I don't get that impression at all. The Pill is a source of info. Who cares if he posts a few facts that are wrong, perhaps they were given to him wrongly on purpose.

Point is, only "certain people" want to argue about minutia and non-facts. They are the trolls who have an agenda, but the Pill does a good job of running them through the truth mill and landing on a consensus.

You don't have to like the Pill, to accept his knowledge. Even is it is presented in a biased way... but that is for all the comic relief, aimed at the mullet-heads.


Though I will admit, not every Camaro owner wants to be Joe Dirt.

uhh...theres a difference between bias, fanboy, and spreading miss-leading information.

 

[garagelogic]

I just don't understand WHY a select number of people care so much about what one person on an Internet message board posts. Take it for what it's worth, but those people have to realize that the content of thePill's posts are intended to get the reaction they get. Pill makes no bones about his disdain for the Camaro, and he makes it a point to denegrate that vehicle with every post he makes. The accuracy of what he posts is secondary to it's desired effect, and based on the number of people who have come into this thread with the sole intent to "discredit" his posts, he's reeling in exactly what he's fishing for. It's freakin' hilarious! You'd think some people would have the good sense not to play his game, but apparently not!

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