GT350 vs. Z/28

[Stuntman]

You are have absolutely zero reading comprehension, let alone being clueless and missing a grip on reality.

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[Big reg]

That is the point I've been trying to make. That crate motor I do believe has the different cylinder heads. Being allowed to run non oem production heads is a major no no! Will the Camaro use the lt series next year? Or will there be another waiver?

You are misinformed. Changes in valve guide material and suppliers. The heads flow around 350cfm @ .600 lift in stock form. No porting or valve changes have been done to crate motors.

 

[thePill]

http://www.karlperformanceparts.com...zxaf9nlnZGO_mRlgtngz6YWE_iuIjC0LsGRoCPnfw_wcB

I'm not sure that is the engine shipped to Pratt and Miller. There is a crate engine with some different support components I think.

 

[thePill]

You are clueless and are missing a grip on reality.

Reality? reality is, I am growing tired of you trying to redeem yourself from ridiculous theories.

I love how your a professional in this area but don't know basic things like leverage, suspension dynamics, geometry, tire, brakes, rulebooks (initially) and, if I am not mistaken, you still believed the GT3 car was something anyone in this area would know it couldn't be.

You have graduated Google U.

 

[Erik427]

http://www.karlperformanceparts.com...zxaf9nlnZGO_mRlgtngz6YWE_iuIjC0LsGRoCPnfw_wcB

There is another version that is used for COPO. Which one used is what I'm trying to figure out. I doubt that the production version is used because of reliability reasons. But I could be wrong. If gm is using the non production version? Then they are making far more than 505hp.

 

[thePill]

I don't know why there is still a debate between an LS7 making more power than the Boss 302 and M3's 4.0.

Nobody is going to convince me the z28 didn't have a huge power advantage at NO weight penalty.

This is a circus to distract you from the issue. The z28 should have classed GT but was allowed two seasons of free reign...with only some success...

Does anyone actually believe an LS7, Boss 302 and BMW 4.0 makes the same power? Is that what we are trying to argue here? Because that's the craziest f@cking thing i've ever heard.

The next race will be the closest the Boss 302, M3 and z28 have been in terms of output, restriction and weight. The Boss and LS7 are separated by at least 60HP peak, i'm sure the LS7 makes more power everywhere, not just peak.

Now, they should only be about 30-40HP apart at a 100-200lbs weight difference. That is as even as it gets an the next race will be the FIRST TIME this has been this close... 20 races later...


You put a 1LE in GS and it's ass is grass and the Boss would be the mower.

 

[02gtnh]

I don't know why there is still a debate between an LS7 making more power than the Boss 302 and M3's 4.0.

Nobody is going to convince me the z28 didn't have a huge power advantage at NO weight penalty.

This is a circus to distract you from the issue. The z28 should have classed GT but was allowed two seasons of free reign...with only some success...

Does anyone actually believe an LS7, Boss 302 and BMW 4.0 makes the same power? Is that what we are trying to argue here? Because that's the craziest f@cking thing i've ever heard.

The next race will be the closest the Boss 302, M3 and z28 have been in terms of output, restriction and weight. The Boss and LS7 are separated by at least 60HP peak, i'm sure the LS7 makes more power everywhere, not just peak.

All this complaining about the z28 just make you sound like a poor looser. They race within the rules and do well, deal with it. You sound like many sport fans who can't stand winning teams. If there team can't win, they try to tear the winning team down making every excuse why they win and your team doesn't. I'm sure if the GT350 came out first with over 500hp like it will soon, you would be gloating like crazy how great a race car it is. If a car races within the rules wether you like it or not, let them race. Complaing about it on a furum does nothing and make you look like a crybaby.

 

[thePill]

All this complaining about the z28 just make you sound like a poor looser. They race within the rules and do well, deal with it. You sound like many sport fans who can't stand winning teams. If there team can't win, they try to tear the winning team down making every excuse why they win and your team doesn't. I'm sure if the GT350 came out first with over 500hp like it will soon, you would be gloating like crazy how great a race car it is. If a car races within the rules wether you like it or not, let them race. Complaing about it on a furum does nothing and make you look like a crybaby.

I'm not whining, it's raising awareness.

Before I started, everyone assumed the z28 would be this Chevy sanctioned terror in all forms of racing. Nobody knew it would of had extreme difficulty registering in amateur classes.

It makes me sick that Chevy targeted a Class Spec OEM car with a 500+HP Camaro with some pretty expensive equipment. Sure, Ford can throw a $70,000 Mustang at the customer, just be prepared to sh!t your pants when they completely eclipse the z28.

If they didn't demonstrate OEM equipment or performance restraints because Motorsport wasn't priority, then they shouldn't be given special priority in Motorsport...

Period...

Then there are many of you cheering when one of these prototypes win a race and think "Chevy is awesome". No, they are not... it's shit...

The Corvette Program is serious, the Camaro program is a fart in the intake...

 

[Erik427]

All this complaining about the z28 just make you sound like a poor looser. They race within the rules and do well, deal with it. You sound like many sport fans who can't stand winning teams. If there team can't win, they try to tear the winning team down making every excuse why they win and your team doesn't. I'm sure if the GT350 came out first with over 500hp like it will soon, you would be gloating like crazy how great a race car it is. If a car races within the rules wether you like it or not, let them race. Complaing about it on a furum does nothing and make you look like a crybaby.

The fact is that chevy was allowed another rules concession. The ls7 should have never been allowed. Chevy has two 6.2 ls motors to choose from. Ford has two Coyote based motors to choose from.

 

[Sabre]

..and the OEM Boss was based on that. That is homologation... It is titled and sold as the Boss 302 and sent to your dealer.

Ford task them with assembly and, as was stated in the video, Multimatic drove the Boss during the 2010 season. That is HOW FORD engineered the car. In racing... using a race team (and they are doing this again).

Multimatic did just sit down and start whipping together a car. Your a fool... Ford built the Boss using REAL RACING RESOURCES.

Chevy sends the BIW to Pratt or Riley and they do as they please to fit the rulebook, that ever changes to support them.

It is pathetic...

Shouldn't the OEM z28 have been limited to the class max RWHP? It wouldn't have an LS7 then... Wheres the mighty 1LE? Oh, eaten by GT's...

There is a whole Boss 302 Program video to watch and see how the Boss was engineered. You act like Multimatic did what they wanted like Crawford in GT, they didn't. Ford was THE authority...

Actually, the first competition Boss 302S was built from a stock GT bought from a dealership. Paul Brown engineered and developed it in his California race shop. Ford did not have time to engineer it before the season started....Ford told Paul to go build it. He did.

 

[thePill]

Actually, the first competition Boss 302S was built from a stock GT bought from a dealership. Paul Brown engineered and developed it in his California race shop. Ford did not have time to engineer it before the season started....Ford told Paul to go build it. He did.

That is true, I believe Tiger engineered the 302S during his Championship season. It was restricted after that.

I believe the GT350RS will be the same way BUT, if specialized equipment is allowed now, I'm almost positive the 3rd Party (Shelby this time) will need more manufacturers help (which it sounds like they are getting).

I'm not sure when the first Boss 302S was available for purchase, it wasn't until the '11 season was over I think.

I am not a big fan of PWC GTS, it has gotten extremely bad since 2012. There are 3 or 4 versions of the 302S and I believe all of them are different. It is the "S" or "Spec" that is intended to scale in the SCCA depending on class restrictions and equipment.

The Boss 302R was replaced in 2012 by the Boss 302R1. I think this was a Roush version of the original Boss 302R that Multimatic drove in 2010. The GS.R and Challenger were allowed such drastic 3rd Party support that all the cars were permitted some sort of compensation... although the power advantage was still present.

The z28 should have been a GT class car at 500+HP and 3300-3400lbs as should the GT350 at this point. A GT350 is required in the class now to deal with an LS7 Camaro.

If it evolves to a gloves off, OEM battle, I could care less what is allowed. As long as it's up to the manufacturer to provide that to the customer, no later than 30 days prior to Daytona (December 25th deadline, as well as MY deadline too). Let them have CCB's and F1 shocks and FPC V8's or TTV6's, but let EVERYONE have the opportunity to bring that to the circuit and dealership.

As I said, the z28 didn't concern itself with low MSRP, Motorsport Regulation, Performance and Equipment because Motorsport and Racing wasn't a priority when it was developed... the 5th Gen for that matter...

So, the Camaro and z28 shouldn't be granted special priorities in Motorsport and Racing.

The LS7 and changing every last piece of special equipment responsible for it's advertised results is NOT what Factory Racing should have been about. If it's gonna change, and CTSC goes the way PWC did (except without all the Doppleganger cars), then let everyone change then.

Don't continue to press restrictions on the Boss 302 for half a season before you discover a 7 liter V8 makes more power than a 5.0 and 4.0 liter. At least limit the weight reduction allowance to 200-300lbs... Not 500-600lbs... Jesus... gimmie a break here...

...and nobody would have raised an eyebrow if it wasn't for thePill's efforts...

 

[02gtnh]

The fact is that chevy was allowed another rules concession. The ls7 should have never been allowed. Chevy has two 6.2 ls motors to choose from. Ford has two Coyote based motors to choose from.

So what's going to happen when the GT350 comes out and is also allowed to race the same class?

 

[thePill]

So what's going to happen when the GT350 comes out and is also allowed to race the same class?

Refer to my post below...

The z28 should have been a GT class car at 500+HP and 3300-3400lbs as should the GT350 at this point. A GT350 is required in the class now to deal with an LS7 Camaro.

If it evolves to a gloves off, OEM battle, I could care less what is allowed. As long as it's up to the manufacturer to provide that to the customer, no later than 30 days prior to Daytona (December 25th deadline, as well as MY deadline too). Let them have CCB's and F1 shocks and FPC V8's or TTV6's, but let EVERYONE have the opportunity to bring that to the circuit and dealership.

As I said, the z28 didn't concern itself with low MSRP, Motorsport Regulation, Performance and Equipment because Motorsport and Racing wasn't a priority when it was developed... the 5th Gen for that matter...

So, the Camaro and z28 shouldn't be granted special priorities in Motorsport and Racing.

The LS7 and changing every last piece of special equipment responsible for it's advertised results is NOT what Factory Racing should have been about. If it's gonna change, and CTSC goes the way PWC did (except without all the Doppleganger cars), then let everyone change then.

Don't continue to press restrictions on the Boss 302 for half a season before you discover a 7 liter V8 makes more power than a 5.0 and 4.0 liter. At least limit the weight reduction allowance to 200-300lbs... Not 500-600lbs... Jesus... gimmie a break here...

...and nobody would have raised an eyebrow if it wasn't for thePill's efforts...

The attention the Camaro receives in Racing is unmatched in all of Motorsport... Well, the KIA is starting to push it...

 

[Stuntman]

Lol. Thank you for being the sole reason and person behind making change for the Z28 being slowed down and 302 competitive again. Delusional?

What do you make of Multimatic running DSSV "F1" shocks on their 302Rs in CTSCC? Or the FR500Cs coming with DSSVs initially when they weren't offered on the street car?

 

[thePill]

Lol. Thank you for being the sole reason and person behind making change for the Z28 being slowed down and 302 competitive again. Delusional?

What do you make of Multimatic running DSSV "F1" shocks on their 302Rs in CTSCC? Or the FR500Cs coming with DSSVs initially when they weren't offered on the street car?

My argument above is pretty sound, I believe that is why you keep tumbling down an endless Rabbit hole.

Do you think Hot Rod brought this up in the Al O. interview on their own discovery? Nope...

Ahhhhh... The FR500... This is pretty much what the Z'28.R is now to some extent. A non-homologated version of the GT.

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