GT350 vs. Z/28

[Grimace427]

For what we need the GT350 to do, a "Performance Automatic" is something we don't want to do... period... I would gladly take a Sequential Gearbox in place of the MT82 or TR3160 for sure. Still saving time on shifts, using a paddle-shift configuration without needing to say "automatic" during conversation concerning my vehicle. Regardless, the GT350R will be at a disadvantage in these magazine comparisons coveted by those damn benchers.

Why would the PDK be considered an automatic when a paddle-shifted sequential isn't? In either car the driver wouldn't be responsible for working the clutch or actually shifting gears. Many automated manuals have a 'Drive' position(Aston Martin, BMW, even Smart).

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[mustangletback]

A shot in the dark by a site desperate for clicks? Or is it a closer guess than many want to believe???

Just as the Porsche offers the 911 GT3 and GT3 RS, the Mustang comes in equal flavors too. One of the offerings is the magazine HALO car, or, as I have come to know them, the HERO car. A car specifically engineered to be driven by some Internet HERO for a single lap, on a different day in different weather conditions... for a single lap... Did I say that already?

Not wanting to really give the z28 credit for anything, this new genre of automobile devoted strictly to hypothetical competitiveness sorta began with the z28. This classless competitor spawned enemies and, will likely be quickly overrun from here on out. Now, manufacturers are stacking statistics not only to win a race... but to decisively dominate their competition on paper... Well... On paper... the GT3 has a lot going for it.

First thing that comes to mind, other than what was discussed briefly above, it the 911's balance. It stands at a 40/60 and, is pretty balanced from left to right. We don't know what the GT350R sits at currently but it is safe to assume that 50/50 is always the goal in a front engine/rear drive sports coupe. Balance is something very difficult to compensate for, more tire, more tire, more tire right??? That's about it if you don't want to move equipment out back and eliminate AC.

The 911 GT3 RS goes beyond competition and becomes the HERO Porsche their fans have been waiting for. I personally never felt comfortable in a rear engine car but, the 911 in general is a great car.

America has lost it's iconic road racer once the Z06 became a shadow of it's former self. The C6 Z06 has forfeited it's title and it is out of the way. The GT350 moves up to take the place of America's Naturally Aspirated Street Fighter. It is a heavy burden in a highly disputed area of competitive engineering. Now that Ford and Dave P. are actively raising the flag, it says to me that the Mustang is ready to win...

...or die trying...

I think the GT350 will challenge the GT3, more than the 4000lbs z28 did for sure. It was determined fairly early on that the GT350 would dominate the older car, it is just the natural way of the automotive industry. The GT3 on the other hand... isn't no comic book cartoon figure, donning the utmost super-HERO car equipment just so children will buy the poster. That is the z28 and that is the z28's heritage... The Porsche has heritage and purpose. It will not come down easily, especially with the advantage stacked in the 911's favor.

But can it be done? At Laguna or VIR? Sebring, Willow or any of the countless tracks here in the US of A?

I am eager to hear others insight on this very topic. From what is being rumored and thrown out there, I think the GT350 has a lot of tricks up it's sleeves... it would have to in order for anyone at Ford to make such a specific comment about that particular competitor.

What do you think? What else could be a factor when these two meet up?

Edit: Just a correction on some GT3 stats, Porsche officially list the GT3 at 3152.6lbs (a little too precise don't cha' think?). 3152lbs @ 475hp is a PtW of 6.63. If what we are hearing is true, the z28 will be light years behind the GT350R. Basing what we know of the GT3 and it's Power to weight ratio, the z28 is at a 7.62 PtW. The GT350R could be "approximately" 6.63.

That's a lot more...

i say give the GT350 600hp,and it will beat it.:cheers:

 

[thePill]

Why would the PDK be considered an automatic when a paddle-shifted sequential isn't? In either car the driver wouldn't be responsible for working the clutch or actually shifting gears. Many automated manuals have a 'Drive' position(Aston Martin, BMW, even Smart).

For our MSRP range, we would be stuck with a "Performance Auto". I fear a Sequential is out of the question...

 

[Grimace427]

For our MSRP range, we would be stuck with a "Performance Auto". I fear a Sequential is out of the question...

That's not what I was asking. Price is irrelevant. You called the PDK an automatic(it's an automated manual with a dual clutch) but yet you consider a sequential paddle shifted trans to be a 'true manual'?

 

[thePill]

That's not what I was asking. Price is irrelevant. You called the PDK an automatic(it's an automated manual with a dual clutch) but yet you consider a sequential paddle shifted trans to be a 'true manual'?

My bad, the "performance auto" was a jab at a previous conversation. That is what we would be stuck with. I wouldn't mind an SM, I would actually prefer one now with the FPC... but we won't see one.

That is correct though, a PDK is an automatic manual or an electric manual. I don't think it is technically a Sequential, even though that is how your go through the gears. To me, it is automatic and that is a huge disadvantage the GT350 will need to overcome.

 

[thePill]

The NISMO GT-R just handed the new Z06 it's ass in the Motor Trend comparison.

What an awful mistake it was going with a supercharged pushrod V8.

Like I said, America's old Street Fighter is officially dead, enter GT350.

They also claim the Z06 was barely faster than the 911 GT3 at Big Willow. What a nice tie-in to what we were discussing here.

What was it Mark Reuss said? "Booya?"

 

[traxiii]

The NISMO GT-R just handed the new Z06 it's ass in the Motor Trend comparison.

What an awful mistake it was going with a supercharged pushrod V8.

Like I said, America's old Street Fighter is officially dead, enter GT350.

They also claim the Z06 was barely faster than the 911 GT3 at Big Willow. What a nice tie-in to what we were discussing here.

What was it Mark Reuss said? "Booya?"

Willow Springs, love that track. Last time I was there I was hanging on the back of a Cal Club Emergency Fire Rescue F350 Engine doing an 85mph 6-wheel drift to keep in front of a green flag GT-1 restart. I had no idea it could do that, but I could see the speedo over the driver's shoulder and hear the tires squealing.
Whoo hooooo!

 

[MrPoopALot]

So when 1LE beats the GT PP by 2 seconds, it's no big deal according to some fanboys. It's just Motor Trend being GM humpers. When the GT3 beats the Z28, it's an "ass whooping".. Gotcha.

Anyway, I know one of the tests the Z28 was running on old worn rubber and they even mentioned it, but don't recall which one.

 

[thePill]

So when 1LE beats the GT PP by 2 seconds, it's no big deal according to some fanboys. It's just Motor Trend being GM humpers. When the GT3 beats the Z28, it's an "ass whooping".. Gotcha.

Anyway, I know one of the tests the Z28 was running on old worn rubber and they even mentioned it, but don't recall which one.

I would always expect a competition focused, limited run 1LE to show more capability on a track than a fully loaded, volume Premium GT with a "Performance" package.

Besides, the 1LE needs to handle the previous GT's in it's own class before claiming victory. The 2012, '13 and '14 seasons were disgraceful.

The Z06 got in the ring with a contender and was knocked out. Beat Chevy at it's own stupid little game. It's not that the NISMO got soooo much better, it's because the Z06 actually moved backwards this Gen. I would say if the GTPP moved backward from where the 2014 GT was, yeah, it would suck. Since the GTPP outperforms the Boss 302 now, for a volume car, that is great when comparing it to Ford's old competition model.

I was enjoying the comments on Motor Trend. Seems there are a lot of people questioning IF Chevy actually tested the Z06 in heat and multiple laps...

...I distinctly remember complaining about this when the ZL1 and z28 where shat out. Seems like I was ahead of the curve...

 

[thePill]

Just one of the angry comments...

"I do have an issue with Chevy's "track cars". They aren't really track cars. The Z/28 has shown it cannot handle repeated laps at temps over 80 degrees. The LS7 simply was never designed to be in the Camaro and doesn't get the airflow like it did in the ZO6, "Flow Tie" be damned. (there was a reason all the tests happened in the cold) The new ZO6 will suffer from what all supercharged cars do, heat soak. You will notice the decreased power after a few laps. Both cars are designed to excite the auto press and message boards and thats about it."

I swear I stood in this very position a few months ago.

 

[MrPoopALot]

You can order a 1LE. There is nothing limited by it. Local dealer has a few Mustangs and not a single PP one. The PP must be a limited model as well. Stop with the "limited" crap. You're very selective and pick and choose something that matches your pro Ford anti GM views.

I'd bet the 2015 Z06 performs better than the previous Z06 and ZR1 if put on same track on the same day. Looks like some things may not be as great as they should have on the 2015 Z06 though and I'm sure they'll be addressed.

 

[thePill]

You can order a 1LE. There is nothing limited by it. Local dealer has a few Mustangs and not a single PP one. The PP must be a limited model as well. Stop with the "limited" crap. You're very selective and pick and choose something that matches your pro Ford anti GM views.

I'd bet the 2015 Z06 performs better than the previous Z06 and ZR1 if put on same track on the same day. Looks like some things may not be as great as they should have on the 2015 Z06 though and I'm sure they'll be addressed.

Except only a few thousand has been built to supply demand. It is limited and it received it's very own SCCA validation and testing. I'm not selective, I'm being honest. The 1LE is garbage in the real world, 3 failed seasons proved that... I can't be selective on real world results, a 2012 5.0 GT won the Run-Offs.

You were led to believe, by a SINGLE publication, that the 1LE would handle an S197 GT, Boss 302 and '15 GTPP.

If I could even trust Chevy to not send a Ringer, a single lap by a single source is hardly concrete. The claim would hold more water if the 1LE wasn't destroyed by every 5.0 in the SCCA. That is just the facts...

I could care less about the Z06. The original formula was abandoned for a more marketable approach because Vette sales have tanked. A decision that has shuffled the Z06 down the ladder it once built...


...enter GT350...

 

[Todd15Fastback]

You can order a 1LE. There is nothing limited by it. Local dealer has a few Mustangs and not a single PP one. The PP must be a limited model as well. Stop with the "limited" crap. You're very selective and pick and choose something that matches your pro Ford anti GM views.

I'd bet the 2015 Z06 performs better than the previous Z06 and ZR1 if put on same track on the same day. Looks like some things may not be as great as they should have on the 2015 Z06 though and I'm sure they'll be addressed.

I think only 2200 or so 1LE's were made last year. I bet there are a shit ton more PP being built, just like the previous get TP model.

I would be willing to wager 10k PP would be built in a single calendar year. That is a lot more vs. 1LE.

 

[Falc'man]

This has been an entertaining and informative thread. Thank you Pill, I've been reading it all along.

My guesstimation of the hp is closer to 600hp than 550hp. Potentially and realistically the capability is certainly there but it depends on whether Ford want to leave anything under the table for the future iterations or updates.

I think p/w would be around 6.3.

The Z I respect in isolation as a product but I stubbornly wouldn't be seen dead in it; the brand I despise, for their lies. It's a trend that we see here too often in Oz as well.

 

[Dirtleg]

As the old saying goes. You can fool some of the people all of the time. Apparently there are enough of these people to keep a car company in business. If I need to specify which one I'm talking about you're on the wrong forum or just fooled already.

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