GT350 vs. Z/28

[thePill]

Welcome to my world of total frustration. :(
a Ford fan who never gets a break from the GM biased media.
a conservative who never gets a break from the liberal media.
a climate realist who never gets a break from the Global Warming fanatics.
a Canuck who never gets any love from the anti-pipeline haters.

The only satisfaction I ever get is watching our Artic wind dump snow all over Buffalo. :clap2:

Did you see what Chevy took to the LA show? What are they doing? It's like they personally attend the November show to get ideas for the April show... How lazy...

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[souprmage]

I am hearing that MRC is optional on the base car, that clears up a lot of the competition mess. If true, THANK YOU FORD!!!

The front brake size on the GT350 is too large for most classes, if MRC is not standard nor is CC brakes, it won't be difficult to swap out suspension or brakes. This was a major drawback of MRC and CC brakes, they are hard to replace.

That makes a ton more sense. I wasn't thinking affordable and MRC were not normally used in the same sentence. Now I could possibly believe a 55k or under price. With MRC that simply didn't seem plausible.

 

[Vernichtung]

Come on, man. Those times were run a year apart, right? This also looks like a faster track to me and I'm positive that the new Mustang definitely pulls harder than the Camaro.

If that were the case, the Boss 302 -- which is both lighter and more powerful than the 2015 Mustang GT -- would have been even quicker than the Camaro 1LE. It wasn't...

...It's funny, the Nürburgring hero runs that many in Camp Camaro held in such high regard just a couple years ago were all that mattered. When I mentioned different day, different driver, different track conditions, etc, the GM contingent jumped all over me; I was accused of making excuses for the then-new Trinity-powered GT500. When a Motor Trend article was released, pitting the 2013 GT500 against the Camaro ZL1 at Laguna Seca, the Shelby was the quicker of the two around said track, with Pobst even proclaiming that, with better brakes, the Mustang was the better car for both daily driving AND track use. Of course, when I mentioned that, Pobst was on an island all his own because virtually everyone else in the automotive media chose the ZL1 due to it being, in their respective opinions, more comfortable and easier to drive than the Shelby.

Fast-forward to today and we have a similar scenario. I, too, would think that Motor Trend's comparison of the 2015 Mustang GT PP and the Camaro 1LE would be most telling because, like you said, it featured the same driver driving both these cars on the same day at the same track. However, Motor Trend is seemingly all by themselves when they describe the new GT PP as a pitchy, wallow-y, loose-handling handful. Car and Driver didn't seem to agree in reading their comparison. Driving.ca said that the new Mustang GT (sans Performnace Pack, mind you) was "easier to drive at sporting speeds" than the Camaro 1LE. Road and Track liked it so much, it finished only behind two exotics! While I'm not discounting Motor Trend entirely, the fact that their experience with the new Mustang was so different than seemingly everyone else's in the Automotive Media is somewhat fishy, no? I mean, it's at the very least something to consider, in my opinion.

 

[souprmage]

If that were the case, the Boss 302 -- which is both lighter and more powerful than the 2015 Mustang GT -- would have been even quicker than the Camaro 1LE. It wasn't...

...It's funny, the Nürburgring hero runs that many in Camp Camaro held in such high regard just a couple years ago were all that mattered. When I mentioned different day, different driver, different track conditions, etc, the GM contingent jumped all over me; I was accused of making excuses for the then-new Trinity-powered GT500. When a Motor Trend article was released, pitting the 2013 GT500 against the Camaro ZL1 at Laguna Seca, the Shelby was the quicker of the two around said track, with Pobst even proclaiming that, with better brakes, the Mustang was the better car for both daily driving AND track use. Of course, when I mentioned that, Pobst was on an island all his own because virtually everyone else in the automotive media chose the ZL1 due to it being, in their respective opinions, more comfortable and easier to drive than the Shelby.

Fast-forward to today and we have a similar scenario. I, too, would think that Motor Trend's comparison of the 2015 Mustang GT PP and the Camaro 1LE would be most telling because, like you said, it featured the same driver driving both these cars on the same day at the same track. However, Motor Trend is seemingly all by themselves when they describe the new GT PP as a pitchy, wallow-y, loose-handling handful. Car and Driver didn't seem to agree in reading their comparison. Driving.ca said that the new Mustang GT (sans Performnace Pack, mind you) was "easier to drive at sporting speeds" than the Camaro 1LE. Road and Track liked it so much, it finished only behind two exotics! While I'm not discounting Motor Trend entirely, the fact that their experience with the new Mustang was so different than seemingly everyone else's in the Automotive Media is somewhat fishy, no? I mean, it's at the very least something to consider, in my opinion.

Actually, it only finished behind one exotic. It finished ahead of the Ferrari.

 

[nametoshowothers]

Welcome to my world of total frustration. :(
a Ford fan who never gets a break from the GM biased media.
a conservative who never gets a break from the liberal media.
a climate realist who never gets a break from the Global Warming fanatics.
a Canuck who never gets any love from the anti-pipeline haters.

The only satisfaction I ever get is watching our Artic wind dump snow all over Buffalo. :clap2:

well said! As a canuck living in texas, i get to see this from another aspect, but it is true as well down here.

 

[1320']

So quick question...

Where is the info on the optional MRC coming from? If so..what would be the suspension on the base car? The FRPP coilover handling kit perhaps?

 

[Todd15Fastback]

So quick question...

Where is the info on the optional MRC coming from? If so..what would be the suspension on the base car? The FRPP coilover handling kit perhaps?

I have not seen nor heard the MRC is optional. Not sure where all that started.

 

[All-Or-Nothing]

Come on, man. Those times were run a year apart, right?

I hear this excuse a lot but "to me" it makes no sense.

Unless there was some really crazy bad weather on one of those days why should it matter.

Essentially it's ALL about what the car's best time was. Everyone here and on every other forum will quote the HERO lap times. Some cars hold track records but do those get ignored because they didn't happen the same time a competitor ran their laps.


It doesn't matter when the car ran whatever time. That's what it ran and you can't say it didn't happen. The GT/PP beat the 1LE track time a year later. Does that really matter.....it still went faster.


At what point is the lap time acceptable? If you are saying it is only acceptable when being directly compared to a competitor on the same day with the same driver then that is just stupid.

When these HERO runs on the ring are ran they are not outsourcing the drivers. All the manufacturers use their own drivers and these times have all been run on different days (whether good or bad) and the times stand. Are these numbers not comparable because they did not happen same day, same driver?

 

[02gtnh]

Head to head with same track conditions and driver is without a doubt the best test for cars. When your comparing numbers from different drivers, and weather condition will change results. The guy in one car could be a better driver, one day the weather could be cooler, or hot a humid. To many veribles can happen. So yes the guy in the mustang was slightly faster then the guy who drove the Camaro, so he has bragging rights. but to say that the mustang is faster based off speed runs a year apart with different drivers and weather conditions doesn't hold water compared to head to head times.

 

[souprmage]

I have not seen nor heard the MRC is optional. Not sure where all that started.

I saw that it will likely be optional from thePill, in reference to the base GT350 being able to run in SCCA and other series, since MRC would be illegal.

It would also make sense from a base price coming in closer to 50k than 60k along with comments from the engineers saying they're being very cost conscious.

 

[All-Or-Nothing]

Head to head with same track conditions and driver is without a doubt the best test for cars. When your comparing numbers from different drivers, and weather condition will change results. The guy in one car could be a better driver, one day the weather could be cooler, or hot a humid. To many veribles can happen. So yes the guy in the mustang was slightly faster then the guy who drove the Camaro, so he has bragging rights. but to say that the mustang is faster based off speed runs a year apart with different drivers and weather conditions doesn't hold water compared to head to head times.

Sorry but I have to disagree.

If the GT350 beats the Z28 time around "The Ring" will it's times not matter because it didn't happen on the same day as the Z28 times?

 

[02gtnh]

Sorry but I have to disagree.

If the GT350 beats the Z28 time around "The Ring" will it's times not matter because it didn't happen on the same day as the Z28 times?

What will put more weight in results, same day, driver and conditions, or different drivers on different days in different conditions?

 

[All-Or-Nothing]

What will put more weight in results, same day, driver and conditions, or different drivers on different days in different conditions?

Honestly...."In My Opinion".....

The only thing that will make a difference in my mind is an extreme weather change. Running in rain might be something that would make me see differently but for the most part.....if a car ran a 1:03.5 around a track then that's what i will accept.

Different drivers is kind of moot to me also. There is only one Randy Pobst and unless you are buying your car for "Him" to take around the track you will have to get your own times. There have been different drivers for the manufacturers running Ring times yet we still love to quote those times. Every 1/4 mile time that has been made has not been by the same drivers on the same days but we only use the fastest times posted when we talk about a cars potential.


To me...."In My Opinion"......if a car ran a certain than that's what it's capable. I'm not falling down that slippery slope of different days, different drivers, different temperatures, different humidity, different blah, blah, blah.

The car ran what it ran. If it was not fast enough....try again.

 

[FL4T]

I hear this excuse a lot but "to me" it makes no sense.

Unless there was some really crazy bad weather on one of those days why should it matter.

Essentially it's ALL about what the car's best time was. Everyone here and on every other forum will quote the HERO lap times. Some cars hold track records but do those get ignored because they didn't happen the same time a competitor ran their laps.


It doesn't matter when the car ran whatever time. That's what it ran and you can't say it didn't happen. The GT/PP beat the 1LE track time a year later. Does that really matter.....it still went faster.


At what point is the lap time acceptable? If you are saying it is only acceptable when being directly compared to a competitor on the same day with the same driver then that is just stupid.

When these HERO runs on the ring are ran they are not outsourcing the drivers. All the manufacturers use their own drivers and these times have all been run on different days (whether good or bad) and the times stand. Are these numbers not comparable because they did not happen same day, same driver?

So lots of people on here are praising the Mustang for beating the 1LE by two tenths of a second a year apart, yet not giving credit to the 1LE when it bested the Mustang by a second and a half on the same day and driven by same driver. Give me a break.

"Motor Trend are GM fanboys", "Randy Pobst short shifted", "Everyone else says the Mustang is a great track car".

 

[02gtnh]

The s550 only beat the 1 le by .02 a year later with different drivers, and everyone is acting like it smoked it. .02 is nothing compared to the 1.51 sec beating in the head to head.

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