GT350 vs. Z/28

[Fenderaddict2]

My insider at GM says I should be prepared to be shocked re: the new Camaro's weight change. That's how he phrased it, not "loss" although I assume that's what he meant. As he's at Oshawa and the cars moving, he too might be going of internal rumour rather than fact though, so we'll see. Then of course, we wait and see what the marketing group adds back in I guess. I haven't been wowed by the camo cars myself but the C5 was a blocky design that looked better than one would expect based on its silhouette. I do expect the GT350 to be over 100lbs lighter than the Mustang GT though based on materials and decontenting. I'm hoping for more, but again will need to wait and see.

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[thePill]

My insider at GM says I should be prepared to be shocked re: the new Camaro's weight change. That's how he phrased it, not "loss" although I assume that's what he meant. As he's at Oshawa and the cars moving, he too might be going of internal rumour rather than fact though, so we'll see. Then of course, we wait and see what the marketing group adds back in I guess. I haven't been wowed by the camo cars myself but the C5 was a blocky design that looked better than one would expect based on its silhouette. I do expect the GT350 to be over 100lbs lighter than the Mustang GT though based on materials and decontenting. I'm hoping for more, but again will need to wait and see.

I doubt it will lose weight, I doubt any car will lose weight these days unless they drop an entire class.

The Mustang and Corvette had the best chance of losing weight based on the specific platforms they used. The 6th Gen will suffer from weight gain and it really isn't a shock, most vehicles are gaining weight over the previous car.

If there was something special about the uni-body, I would say its a possibility. Looking at the structure, the mass is all still there. That was where the Mustang and Corvette lost the structure weight that negated some of the standard equipment and safety weight.

I find it hard to believe that Corvette engineers couldn't achieve weight loss with an aluminum space frame redesign specifically for the Corvette and its drivetrains.

...all the while, Camaro fans fully expect a weight loss in the 6th Gen, using a traditional uni-body, similar to last Gen made of mostly steel. The wheelbase reduction, if there is one, will help lose weight. But, not only will that lost 80-120lbs be gained back, it will likely settle above the outgoing SS. Don't be surprised to still see a small to medium gain.

The ATS isn't even that lightweight, its slightly lower than its competition. It cannot support a super/turbo charged V8 nor a convertible. That is well over 200lbs of reinforcement judging from previous reports on other vehicles.

The drivetrain, suspension and brakes will all bring on some weight... They need a dedicated platform. They should have just done it right the first time. If anyone remembers, the Alpha started gaining weight waaay back in 2011. Caddy added weight to support AWD... That AWD weight will actually be found in the Camaro Alpha... That's what platform sharing is all about.

If the GT350 comes with the Recaro's, that will be about 90lbs of savings. We will be lucky if it breaks 3600 flat.

 

[thePill]

My insider at GM says I should be prepared to be shocked re: the new Camaro's weight change. That's how he phrased it, not "loss" although I assume that's what he meant. As he's at Oshawa and the cars moving, he too might be going of internal rumour rather than fact though, so we'll see. Then of course, we wait and see what the marketing group adds back in I guess. I haven't been wowed by the camo cars myself but the C5 was a blocky design that looked better than one would expect based on its silhouette. I do expect the GT350 to be over 100lbs lighter than the Mustang GT though based on materials and decontenting. I'm hoping for more, but again will need to wait and see.

I started doing some poking around after you said you talked to an insider...

I just found out this morning that, there is weight gain on every major component group.

I was told that there is weight gain in the drivetrain, suspension, braking systems, standard wheels and tires, exhaust system and most of all, the interior. I knew the LT1 weighed more than an LS3, was only guessing on the transmission.


I asked about curb weight and I was told;

An official curb weight is still a ways off.... testing components now and finding gains in most areas.

We may all be shocked...

 

[ChefBorOzzy]

You're simply a GM basher.. Plain and simple. How did the CTS manage to get hundreds of pounds lighter? Here, let me guess. Your response is "it can't support a v8".

You have nothing to back up anything you claim and it's you being pessimistic basically because it's a GM product.

The 6070 Tremec is actually lighter than the 6060. Interesting, huh?

The wheels and tires are getting heavier? Very doubtful.

The only thing you can be sure of is that the LT1 is heavier. Don't worry, Coyote will get heavier once they get the engine to the current technology. Heavier than the LT1.

I'm sure this post won't even be visible. Good job, Mustang6G.

 

[thePill]

Europe just released the curb weight of the 2015 Mustang, remember, this is a NO OPTION curb weight...

GRAND TOTAL for a manual GT? 3639lbs. About dead on where the outgoing GT's were. Now... ADD RECARO's (-80 to 90lbs), Get a Base GT (50-70lbs) and careful with the options... You have nearly a 3500lbs 2015 GT.

I feel that most ho argued that the S550 was heavier just lost that argument... Apples to Apples, the new Mustang is a tad lighter than the outgoing car... once Recaro's are added.

Europe Curb Weights reflect the Premium Optioned GT's... I currently do not see a Base GT offered in Europe, I need to find more details. If that's the case, the Performance Pack could end up adding only about 60-70lbs, a little more than the '11 Brembo Pack (about 10lbs).

 

[thePill]

Oh good lord!!! These new Mustang's are so much better than the last in the looks department.

Here is Chaz's render of the 6th Gen Camaro, I think it is an improvement in the fascia. It looks a little fat and blocky still and that god awful belt line. Obviously, Chaz's talent on full display here...

The rear is super soft and still bulky, looks less clumsy and more sporty. It screams Pontiac GTO/G# from the rear and rear 3/4.

By the time I copy and pasted the link for this GIF, I have already kinda lost interest in the styling. It is kinda dull and not very evolutionary at all in terms of style. I think this could be a big mistake long term. It may force a refresh sooner than needed if customers overlook the new Gen, mistaking it for the old car.

I already have 2 major complaints...

1st, the fuel door needs to be on the pit side of the vehicle or, in the daily drivers case, the drivers side. This should have been taken care of immediately upon the redesign. This ultimately posses a problem for the regular customer for refueling but, the concern here in this "racing/competition" thread would be refueling. Obviously this is a Pro racing issue but, there are Am classes that pit... What does this tell me already? That race engineers were not present during the initial planning. this would have been relocated.

2nd, the upper grill is waaaaay too small. The lower grill usually houses the AC condenser and, the AC condenser covers the radiator. Now, the radiator has a very restricted grill to provide air to cool the engine. Why must this be like this? It will be a huge cooling issue, just like the previous ZL1/z28, it lacked air flow. There is absolutely nothing you can do to fix this other than removing the upper mesh completely. It may help... Again, engineers would have identified this issue early and would of had experience from the 5th Gen.

The Mustang continues to use a pit side fuel door, this will help more in Pro Racing but, there are Am classes that require pitting too. this is also just a huge convenience for the owner too. The Mustang's signature mouth provides maximum air flow to the radiator while still providing air flow to the AC condenser/heat exchanger. The upper grill position even helps heat extraction vents or louvers on the hood to function. There is far less turbulence underhood in the Mustang's design compared to the wind splitting Camaro.

 

[Twin Turbo]

Oh good lord!!! These new Mustang's are so much better than the last in the looks department.

I really, really, really hope these are accurate :hail:

 

[Backorder]

If that's the new camaro, it's atrocious! The front looks like a squished Toyota Highlander and the rear looks like a 90s supra. None of that design screams muscle, class, or modern.

Of course just my opinion...I honestly think they did a decent job on the current ones minus the interior. I really can't see what was the idea behind whatever the heck this new thing is...

As far as the mustang, my god if that's it I don't care how much, take my money!!!


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[tbonez3858]

Camaro....

What is known..
Visibility looks likes it has major improvements
The chassis is going to be awesome

Probabilities
The engine is probably going to be insane (if it gets LT1). Right now its check mate for Ford with the Coyote but with the LT1 its checkmate Chevy.
Mag shocks will make this car on another level

What isnt known
Interior could be bad...I've never been a fan of Chevy interiors so they are going to have to throw a hail marry on this one.
Weight could be bad
If Chevy will have the suspension dialed in or if it will take them three or four years to figure it out (like last gen)

What is subjective
Looks


Jury is out but its going to be interesting.. To me its a worth a "smokem if ya gottem" to see what Chevy has to offer while I wait on the release of the GT350.

 

[DiPsTiCk]

If the GT350 looks like this... WOW!!!

If the new Camaro looks like this

The outgoing model looks way better. This looks like a cross between a malibu and an impala or something...

 

[Trackaholic]

In comparison to Tranformers 4:

Not loving the new look (either the renders or the Transformer's version).

-T

 

[Brent302]

Reminds me of a guy with a unibrow that's mouth breathing lol

 

[Folgrim21]

From the team that brought y'all this epic unit

 

[Todd15Fastback]

From the team that brought y'all this epic unit

Bwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

 

[thePill]

Well, I couldn't say I didn't see this coming, I was talking about the GT350 before the ZL1 was caught out of camo. As we literally picked the topic apart, and as some had noticed, I slowly began to accept the direction of the SVT cars. They have completely moved away from competition and have truest embraced the HALO duties. Fair warning gentleman, DO NOT show up to the track in a GT350 and expect to compete without some hassle... In fact, most classes will most likely refuse you period... Please, check your projected classes rule books and regulation before throwing out $50-$60k for a track weapon. That's pretty much all the GT350 is, a track day car :(

Of course, pages back, I already had a feeling the regular GT was pretty much exceeding the Boss in all its classes. There is just NO room in most of those Boss classes for a vehicle such as this. The GT will most likely be heavily restricted as it stands now...

Off topic for a second, I didn't get nearly as much time with a GT this year. One has already been scuffed up some so, the game hasn't changed. Please don't ask me about cage construction, I don't know. I am not permitted to discuss that. I also have no information about where to get weight from. I was grateful for the time I got. It's been a shitty fall... and not much done really after Halloween. I got some Birthday love but nothing insane. I'm sure the guys will be out there some March.

Anyhow, lots will need change for a GT350 to be accepted, not nearly as much as the Z06 and z28 but, the front brakes are a no go stock.

The MRC has a uphill battle before that's approved, you will be limited to stock classes as far as suspension goes.

I do anticipate a GT350R but, as I suggested long ago, it could come down to being a sort of "Carbon" edition and likely become even more illegal. Of course, I could be wrong. A "Carbon" package might be extended to the GT350 and will still could see a raunchy GT350.

I'm going to be honest fella's, I'm afraid the Mustang is beginning to get away from me, at least towards the top. I love the GT350 and, since it looks very streetable, I will hope to pick one up for my Summer car to replace the '11 and '67. I am holding out for a Mustang GTR and THAT will be the comp car. Ford has done a lot of the work for me as it sits. My wife is still pondering the EB after she seen one at delivery. I don't want to put her in a GT just as I probably shouldn't compete in a GT350. The Mustang is getting faster and I'm getting older.

Now, I was kind of excited about the possibility of a TRUE GT class Mustang and guess what... This is the definition of Grand Tourer. I am glad they released the benchmarks, at least it confirms a source. All this could be a good thing because Ford Racing is twice as active on Mustang stuff than they were around the Boss era. I am more than happy to wait for FR to get a GT350 from SVT and "King Cobra" it. I am still putting these two cars together, even though ForD will put the GT in to contend with the z28 on most levels. I doubt the GT350 will show up in GTS against the ZL1 either, I imagine a GT will replace the Boss there too. The GT350 will in fact return to the ranks in GT, being absent for almost 50 years...

...it will now take on the rest of the World along side the C7. I seen that coming and was excited when I said it back then.

Anyway, I've been really busy, spent lots of money in the last 60 days and haven't had time for computer. I have been writing a book (off topic) since 2005 and after a couple of large purchases and investment, I have time to do other things. A lot of my post over the last 5 years have been largely writing exercises. Although, I will remind everyone that I am in a Camaro hot spot in the US, Pittsburgh is no Detroit but, a select few of the boys are position right here with me. As more info is released, I will be looking it over... This is in fact my next car.

...I was once told "once you see the 2015, you will drop the other two in a flash" (not exact quote). It was a bold statement at the time... both my cars were sold months ago...

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