GT350 vs. Z/28

[thePill]

A quote taken from the Aero report for the z28 on C5...

"The 2014 Camaro Z/28 arrives in dealerships next spring, ready for the 2014 racing season.

Source: Chevrolet"

LOL!!! Racing season??? Right...

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[The Sarge]

After today's comments about the GT > Boss 302 I can't wait to get more leaks about the SVT. Enjoy the spotlight for another year z28.

 

[Fenderaddict2]

At Woodward this year Dave P himself said they will have an answer for the Z/28. If if the numbers only match, the lighter dynamics and stunning looks will be enough to satisfy me. But I suspect Dave will want more. Hoping my Boss holds its value so I can trade toward the "GT350".

 

[thePill]

Hmmmm... Seems there is some butthurt a plenty over yonder. As I expected, most have either liked/loved it that day, warmed up by the weekend or are now just starting to pick out their favorite colors... Good, I am glad the car gives people something to be excited about. Our final jab at the S550 proved more successful with our color chop of the Shelby Tribute car done by another artist. Many said at the time it was too exotic and Ford wouldn't build it... Well... They just built it

So, now that our seizures have ended, we took some time to look around and see what other pools of enthusiast were saying. There is a lot of love, lots of new love too which is what Ford wanted. However, you still have the extremes... and the z28 and the Ring. Lets turn Sunday into Funday and make fun of these morons...

As always, the topic here is Nurburgring. There are some awesome responses to the z28 defenders later in the thread but, lets start with the first shot out of the '15 camp...

I suspect Ford would care a LOT about publicizing times if they could beat the Z/28 around the Nordschleife. Maybe one day, but not now -- I don't think anything they make over the next 18 months will break 7:50 around the Ring. Compared to the Z/28's assumed 7:31, publicizing Mustang times would be (I think it's safe to say) an incredibly boneheaded move...

ORIGINAL ARTICLE HERE

2015 Ford Mustang Will Be Nürburgring-Tuned, But No Times Will Be Released
BY Nelson Ireson

The Nürburgring-Nordschleife, for good or ill, has become the benchmark for a performance car's abilities. It's certainly a fine place to tune a car--it has a huge variety of corners, surfaces, bumps, and long straights. But do lap times really matter?

Ford apparently thinks they don't--at least in the case of the new 2015 Mustang.

Speaking with Fox News's Gary Gastelu at the New York unveiling of the new Mustang, Ford's chief engineer for the car, Dave Pericak, said, "We're not going to release the times, but we will be on the Nürburgring, we will be in Europe, showing what this car can do.

The new 2015 Mustang will be available in late 2014 in both convertible and fastback coupe forms. The same base 3.7-liter V-6 rates 300 horsepower and 270 pound-feet of torque; an all-new 2.3-liter EcoBoost turbocharged four-cylinder rates 305 horsepower, but 300 pound-feet of torque; and a revised version of the Coyota 5.0-liter V-8 scores 420 horsepower and 390 pound-feet of torque.

Find the full details at our 2015 Ford Mustang preview, and be sure to stay up to date with all of the latest Ford Mustang news.

 

[thePill]

...continued...

Okay, I understand Ford would love to shatter the z28's Ring time with the GT. What Ford is saying is, in order to beat a caged, tuned and weight reduced NON-production z28, they would themselves need to cheat to compete.

It is an awesome place to test/tune and get publicity. Publicity can be had with no "official" time as was experimented with and shown recently with the 7:39 GT500 run. The original poster here goes on to further shave the z28's Ring time down to 7:31.

They're scared. Just like they were when they wouldn't let the Boss be tested against the 1LE. I guess they don't care about 0-60 times or braking distances either. Why go to the ring and not post a time? Are they gonna be out there just taking a leisurely stroll? Even if their times don't beat a certain Camaro they can still show the car's capabilities. It really comes down to they don't think they can win. If they could produce a better time they would be shouting it from the rooftops.

This guy is kinda bitter about the 1LE vs. Boss thing. I think Chevy is just bitter about the Boss in general. Okay, even if Ford didn't give them the Boss... Chevy didn't sanction the 1LE against the Boss in SCCA. Ford was giving Chevy exactly what the car was classed against. The 1LE can't handle the GT in SCCA T2 (seven GT's finished ahead of the 1LE in maiden season, dropped out after 4th race in 21st this year). If you don't have the balls to send the 1LE to T1, don't expect to get a 1 in 750 Boss 302 so you can swing the article in your favor. You can't swing a race in your favor, END OF THE 1LE DISCUSSION...

This isn't 1972. People are interested in more than just straight line performance these days and the Ring is a good way to show what a car can do in the turns. Ford can choose not to play if they want but they're only hurting themselves. Bragging rights sell cars. Period. There is no shame in posting a time that is slower than a competitors car, especially if your car is just a few seconds slower and is much more affordable. What is not acceptable is posting a slower time and charging more for your car, hence the lack of a GT500 ring time. They want you to pay more for less car and some people are happy to do that.

Same guy, really whining now. He must have missed the numerous articles that placed the GT500 ahead of the ZL1 at half the track they compared them to. Yes, faster at Laguna... a very tight track. Forget the 7:39 SID timed the GT500 at, never mind the time shaving from Chevy on both the ZL1 and z28's Ring times. No shame in posting a time sure... but it takes a real company to sit on that information while you baste yourself with props. Ford never interfered with your Ring celebration... We just watched you dance and make idiots of yourselves.

Some decent feedback from existing members.

What do they get if the do "win" at the 'Ring? All I've ever seen a number from a car ran there produce is a bunch of chest thumping by a few enthusiasts of whatever vehicle put up the time.

I'm sure all the major manufacturers spend a tin of money trying to figure out what sort of information is going to help them sell cars. It is obvious GM marketing believes a 'Ring time does that and Ford marketing, to this point, does not.

Why does it bother some people so much that a Ford elects not to release times for any of its vehicles?

Haven't heard Ford say the new Mustang is a purpose-built, track-only car, either....

Ring time makes sense for the Z/28, not so much for a Mustang...

For me the ring times don't mean anything. The cars that run there aren't the cars that the public ends up with. There doesn't seem to be any rules as to keeping the cars in production form down to the tires and we have to rely in the manufacturer to be honest.

I put more stock into Tracks like VIR and other places after outsiders get a hold of production versions and then compare to other production versions. It becomes more believable. I can see using the ring to test cars, but that's were it ends for me.

I agree it is nothing but fluff.but hey what do I know I am just a car guy.

Agreed. No set start/stop point, no set rules, no official timing system, etc. A company can use it to tune/etc but comparing to others when they maybe measuring different, or running different tires/pads/fuel/etc for runs is just not productive.

This isn't anything new, it's what Ford has always done with Nurburgring testing. Test and tune. They've never released times, and explained why; there are no controls in place and too many variables for any times to have any validity for real world comparisons, and chose not to use them for marketing like some other manufacturers have.

I guess it's a big deal here, because GM does use them. The controlled testing on shorter tracks here will tell you all you need to know, and will be more valid comparisons then the uncontrolled testing taking place across the ocean on a very long track with conditions so varied, that even different sections of the track change because of the long distance and elevation changes.

All in all, they want Ford to publish Nurburgring times... In order for Ford to do that, they need to provide Camaro fans complete spec sheets (with pics and 3rd party inspection) and run official and precise lap timing equipment. Okay... As soon as Team Camaro does the same thing you are requesting, I am sure Ford won't have a problem. Chevy's timing method for the Ring runs for the ZL1 and z28 are FLAWED. The top detectives at SVTP showed us that... So it's alright if Chevy doesn't use precise and official lap timers but Ford needs to display an accurate timer on their runs??? How about a spec sheet, with pics, video and a 3rd party inspection for the Z's? I have never seen any request and requirements by Camaro5 for the Mustang applied to ANY CAMARO over there...

 

[thePill]

 

[Bossing]

Be awesome if it's like that!

 

[thePill]

There are internal sources close to the z28 "marketing" plan saying the 2014 z28 will be over $72,000 :( That's kinda disappointing if true. Some are suggesting the car will see $75,000...

A small portion has the car optioning out close to $85,000?!?!?!?!

For a car that cannot be used in organized motorsport, not recommended for drag racing and is lacking a radio and AC for the street???

Ford, please do not follow suit unless you got the numbers to back it up. The GT350 must be legal for use in the USCC, SCCA and NASA.

If fans want a "Carbon" package, or a "Black" edition then offer one separately...

The GT350 should be a very usable platform... All those old C6 Z06 owners will need something new for sure. The GT350.R could be the extreme edition (The R Package) with the Carbon Ceramic brakes (Hope we don't need those) and 15 inch disc.

 

[stable68]

There are internal sources close to the z28 "marketing" plan saying the 2014 z28 will be over $72,000 :( That's kinda disappointing if true. Some are suggesting the car will see $75,000...

A small portion has the car optioning out close to $85,000?!?!?!?!

.

70k for that car is ridiculous! What makes this worth 70k and the zl1 55k? This car isn't even supercharged and it has the same suspension as the Zl1 but with different brakes? I don't see how its worth 70k

 

[thePill]

70k for that car is ridiculous! What makes this worth 70k and the zl1 55k? This car isn't even supercharged and it has the same suspension as the Zl1 but with different brakes? I don't see how its worth 70k

I personally don't think it will be too far over $70, if at all. I said $67,929 (MY67, Sept 29th) at first. If they can get the car under $60,000 it will be a pretty good deal...

I was told, on just parts add-up alone, the estimate is just over $70k. First of all, that's is not an accurate way to gauge the MSRP. However, several individuals that used the same method on the ZL1 came pretty close to the MSRP as well.

Another thing to consider, there is a lot of equipment still unknown, therefore not accounted for. The guess-timate doesn't include some of the equipment. Weight reduction cost cannot be measured... I know this might sound strange but, there is a possibility that they saved some money, very small amounts of money, but maybe they saved some here and there on material cost. These LS7's and TR6060's may be on a fire-sale... Maybe they are the ones that didn't make the Z06's for more stringent QC standards...

I don't understand Chevy sometimes... They do all this swapping Z badges around because forced induction wasn't desired in road racing or track events. Then there comes word of the next Z06 being supercharged... PLEASE DON'T SUPERCHARGE/TURBOCHARGE THE GT350!!! (Chevy should call this LT4 car the ZR1).

 

[stable68]

i don't see them selling many cars at 70k+

 

[91z28350]

Don't think they intend to sell many ( I heard 1k or less per year), and I bet they sell all that they make. I like the looks of it, but then again I like the looks of the ZL1, just not the 4120 Lb. heft.

 

[thePill]

I have heard there is a 2000 a year limit because there are only 4000 LS7 left. Al O. said about 1500 a year, that's a pretty decent number. The 2012 Boss 302 was 4000 a year right? 750 of them were Laguna Seca's?

8000 Boss 302's in 2 years, 1500 of them were Laguna Seca's. Chevy needs to just go ALL out... Do a Z/28.R or Z/28X... 2000 a year and 375 of them be the super crazy Z/28's... With LT1's...

No, no!!!

375 LS9, Z/28-ZL1 Camaro's...

AKA: The Kitchen Sink

 

[minjitta]

I personally don't think it will be too far over $70, if at all. I said $67,929 (MY67, Sept 29th) at first. If they can get the car under $60,000 it will be a pretty good deal...

I was told, on just parts add-up alone, the estimate is just over $70k. First of all, that's is not an accurate way to gauge the MSRP. However, several individuals that used the same method on the ZL1 came pretty close to the MSRP as well.

Another thing to consider, there is a lot of equipment still unknown, therefore not accounted for. The guess-timate doesn't include some of the equipment. Weight reduction cost cannot be measured... I know this might sound strange but, there is a possibility that they saved some money, very small amounts of money, but maybe they saved some here and there on material cost. These LS7's and TR6060's may be on a fire-sale... Maybe they are the ones that didn't make the Z06's for more stringent QC standards...

I don't understand Chevy sometimes... They do all this swapping Z badges around because forced induction wasn't desired in road racing or track events. Then there comes word of the next Z06 being supercharged... PLEASE DON'T SUPERCHARGE/TURBOCHARGE THE GT350!!! (Chevy should call this LT4 car the ZR1).

I would love for Ford to have GT350 TT
What's the reason you don't want Ford to turbo GT 350

 

[Twin Turbo]

I would love for Ford to have GT350 TT
What's the reason you don't want Ford to turbo GT 350

I have no issue with either a TT or supercharged Coyote (or Voodoo) but if GT350 is to replace the Boss 302, then a n/a V8 it the way to go. It'll be as much about handling as it is about brute power.

I'd still like to believe there's room for both GT350 (n/a) and GT500 (FI) in the lineup, just like there was for the '12/'13 MY.

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