GM is pulling back on EVs

[jtmat]

Helo; last comment first. The local TV did say my area can expect more rolling electricity blackouts similar to the ones in the recent near zero F cold spell. You try this approach often. Just because you do not read or see a thing somehow you feel empowered to cast dispersions onto others. There were rolling blackouts a few weeks ago during a cold spell that lasted nearly five days when temps goy down to near zero F and stayed below freezing. My power was off for about half an hour that I am sure of as i was awake at the time with a temp at my house of 4 degrees F.

As you might remember I lived and have friends in the area you are "reporting". I've not heard anything, so I was simply asking. Just because your power was out last night, does that equate to rolling brownouts or someone hit a pole and died? I'm only asking... you could have easily posted a link to something where the company or news says "expect future brownouts".

Your "reports" have been proven wrong so many times in the past, I don't research what you post hard, to be honest.

Next is the twisted tactic to try to say because i am against taking every tax payers money to push an agenda so many tax payers do not approve of means i want people to be out of work. How many coal miners or oil field workers or pipeline workers have lost jobs because of the "green" agendas? In fact I have seen some such advocates who seem proud of putting fossil fuel workers out of work. Folks who spend their lives keeping the lights on and whom we still depend upon when it gets too hot or too cold since the "green" energy is not yet up to the task.In a real sense I do not care how the electricity is made that comes thru the wires to my home. I do want there to be enough of it at a reasonable price. So far the "green" energy promise is just that, a future promise.

Again, asking a legit question. I don't discount people attached to the coal/oil industry have lost jobs and will continue to do so as we (supposedly) transition. That is my point, we are in transition. This has been happening for 20+ years... this didn't start 2 years ago. And it will continue until the infrastructure is built out (up to what 2050/2060). So what exactly are you asking?

To be clear, I've not looked at how many people in the oil industry are losing jobs to "green" technologies. Or if "green" is the "real" reason... sometimes things are not as they seem.

At this point I see us ensuring America (aka workers) is in position to take full advantage of this new technology... that we are leading the way. Or at least not getting left behind.

Will there be pain? Sure... change is never easy. We all know this (given the "how old are you" thread).

I repeat myself and will continue to do so for as long as comments such as yours are out there. You are the sort who do not get it. An idealized dream some years in the future does not keep us warm today. I do not want the working fossil fuel power grid taken away until the dream alternative can carry the load.

I answered this above.

What I see is the USA planning so we are prepared and leading the change. America can't wake up 10 years from now and join the global arena.

There is nothing for me to discuss with you on this. That is not a bad thing... I look at this differently. Technology will move forward... we have to change and keep an open mind.

Can we do this differently/better? Sure... but you have not hit on that... only the same comments over and over.

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[Gregs24]

They all know the supply chain and infrastructure can’t keep up.

Who do? - 'They'

It can keep up if investment is there and not wasted on subsidising fossil fuels for example!

As has been discussed at length on here there are multiple strands to the move away from ICE cars powered by fossil fuels that include BEV, PHEV, FCEV, alternative fuels for ICE engines. All have their part.

There are places that prove certain methods can and do work, it is a case of working out what is best for each area.

 

[Gregs24]

Renewable energy jobs grew in the US in 2021, new report finds | World Economic Forum (weforum.org)

Renewable Energy Jobs Hit 12 7 Million Globally (irena.org)

How much of the UK’s energy is renewable? | National Grid Group

For those wailing over the loss of fossil fuel based jobs - just think about all the other jobs created. We still need energy just from different sources

UK rapidly transitioning to renewable electricity. No it isn't 'overnight' but only an idiot would think it could happen like that. Lights on no problem here.

 

[sk47]

As you might remember I lived and have friends in the area you are "reporting". I've not heard anything, so I was simply asking. Just because your power was out last night, does that equate to rolling brownouts or someone hit a pole and died? I'm only asking... you could have easily posted a link to something where the company or news says "expect future brownouts".

Your "reports" have been proven wrong so many times in the past, I don't research what you post hard, to be honest.

Utilities impose new round of outages on Saturday as TVA works to respond to record power demand | wbir.com

Hello; Looks like you have shown your behind again. You also seem to conflate things I post you do not like with things that are incorrect. Also we did have blackouts, not brown outs. The power was completly off at least once at my place. We were asked to conserve electric energy which i did.
Was it not for the coal fired power plants and the natural gas backup generators things would have been worse.
By the way I found several stores about the rolling blackouts. If we get another artic blast same sort of thing can happen again.

 

[sk47]

Utilities impose new round of outages on Saturday as TVA works to respond to record power demand | wbir.com

Hello; Looks like you have shown your behind again. You also seem to conflate things I post you do not like with things that are incorrect. Also we did have blackouts, not brown outs. The power was completly off at least once at my place. We were asked to conserve electric energy which i did.
Was it not for the coal fired power plants and the natural gas backup generators things would have been worse.
By the way I found several stores about the rolling blackouts. If we get another artic blast same sort of thing can happen again.

Tennessee Valley Authority ends rolling blackouts across East Tennessee for a second time, Sevier County Electric System Knoxville Utility Board, SCES KUB (wate.com)



Rolling blackouts ended in East Tenn. counties (msn.com)



Tennessee Valley Authority releases statement about rolling blackouts in East Tennessee (wate.com)

 

[jtmat]

Utilities impose new round of outages on Saturday as TVA works to respond to record power demand | wbir.com

Hello; Looks like you have shown your behind again. You also seem to conflate things I post you do not like with things that are incorrect. Also we did have blackouts, not brown outs. The power was completly off at least once at my place. We were asked to conserve electric energy which i did.
Was it not for the coal fired power plants and the natural gas backup generators things would have been worse.
By the way I found several stores about the rolling blackouts. If we get another artic blast same sort of thing can happen again.

Those links had to do with the Storm in Dec... Elliot that I mentioned previously. Thanks for the info on blackout vs. brownout.. like I said, didn't research it due to the source it came from.

Maybe that is all you were speaking about... sounded like you suggested the electric company (or TV station) said there would be more this year.

That I don't like? Dude, really? I'm asking a simple question... you and the conspiracy crowd will reach at ANYTHING these days. If these blackouts were assured to be something repeatable (and that was announced) then I'm interested.

Nothing more than a question about what was happening in a place I lived and have friends.

Your reporting seems to be off, so it does not matter.

 

[sk47]

Those links had to do with the Storm in Dec... Elliot that I mentioned previously.

Maybe that is all you were speaking about... sounded like you suggested the electric company (or TV station) said there would be more this year.

That I don't like? Dude, really? I'm asking a simple question... you and the conspiracy crowd will reach at ANYTHING these days. I don't care about the reasons your power went out... if it is assured to be something repeatable (and that was announced) then I care.

Nothing more than a question about what was happening in a place I lived and have friends.

Your reporting seems to be off, so it does not matter.

Hello; Fascinating spin. It is a repeat of the ploy you used a while back about deaths from car wrecks and such being counted as covid deaths if the person happened to have tested positive for covid.
Do you somehow think readers cannot check the links I posted and see for themselves??? We had actual blackouts during the extreme artic blast and yes the storm was called Elliot.
Too late to salvage your credibility here, but at some other time and place just admit you stand corrected and thanks for the information.

 

[jtmat]

Hello; Fascinating spin. It is a repeat of the ploy you used a while back about deaths from car wrecks and such being counted as covid deaths if the person happened to have tested positive for covid.
Do you somehow think readers cannot check the links I posted and see for themselves??? We had actual blackouts during the extreme artic blast and yes the storm was called Elliot.
Too late to salvage your credibility here, but at some other time and place just admit you stand corrected and thanks for the information.

Goodbye; This is what you wrote:

Helo; last comment first. The local TV did say my area can expect more rolling electricity blackouts similar to the ones in the recent near zero F cold spell.

What I wrote in response (and even mentioned "Elliot" lol):

Are you sure? That is not what I read. I read they were hit with a huge unprecedented storm (Elliot) and the blackouts were the result. I didn't read where they expect more outages/brownouts.

(Okay, I misspoke and said "brownouts" at the end... although "outages" should have covered blackouts.)

It would be nice if you would keep up! I was simply asking for the link to your claim "the local TV did say my area can expect more rolling electricity blackouts".

That was all I was looking for... a link to prove that statement would be nice since I'd not heard it before you mentioned it here. A link to help out my friends in that area!!!!

But it turned into another meltdown. Maybe you think I had nefarious intentions? No... fairly simple question.

You want to turn everything into a "them against us" thing... when that is not the reality.

It could be there are further blackouts expected it was reported. I would love to have that information... if it is true or not does not change anything in my life. Heck, you might have misspoke (again) no biggie.

 

[sk47]

Goodbye; This is what you wrote:



What I wrote in response (and even mentioned "Elliot" lol):


(Okay, I misspoke and said "brownouts" at the end... although "outages" should have covered blackouts.)

It would be nice if you would keep up! I was simply asking for the link to your claim "the local TV did say my area can expect more rolling electricity blackouts".

That was all I was looking for... a link to prove that statement would be nice since I'd not heard it before you mentioned it here. A link to help out my friends in that area!!!!

But it turned into another meltdown. Maybe you think I had nefarious intentions? No... fairly simple question.

You want to turn everything into a "them against us" thing... when that is not the reality.

It could be there are further blackouts expected it was reported. I would love to have that information... if it is true or not does not change anything in my life. Heck, you might have misspoke (again) no biggie.

Hello; Go back to post #245 link number one. The bit about ends for a second time might be a clue.
Here is the thing for my area which you claim to be familiar with. The worst weather in terms of cold and snow usually happens during January or February. To have a cold spell such as the one in late December is not common. No way for me to predict if another artic blast will happen this winter but an early such spell has been followed by other similar episodes in past winters.
We had another cold few days with snow over the last weekend. Not as cold to be sure.

I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that if we get similar cold as in storm Elliot for as many days the same sort of power grid demand will happen again. Just saying.


Tennessee Valley Authority ends rolling blackouts across East Tennessee for a second time, Sevier County Electric System Knoxville Utility Board, SCES KUB (wate.com)

 

[Burkey]

There were rolling blackouts a few weeks ago during a cold spell that lasted nearly five days when temps goy down to near zero F and stayed below freezing. My power was off for about half an hour that I am sure of as i was awake at the time with a temp at my house of 4 degrees F.

What does this indicate to you? To me, that suggests that perhaps the infrastructure is due for an upgrade. I say maybe because there are numerous potential reasons for such a situation. I’m reluctant to comment without the proper information.

Just because you do not read or see a thing somehow you feel empowered to cast dispersions onto others.

Aspersions, not dispersions.

Next is the twisted tactic to try to say because i am against taking every tax payers money to push an agenda so many tax payers do not approve of means i want people to be out of work.

Welcome to living in a democratic society. Ever noticed how every time a new technology arrives, the doomsayers talk about how people won’t have jobs and then magically, everyone seems to have jobs in the new sectors that are created? How many people worked in IT in the 1700’s? Remember blacksmiths? I wonder what they’re doing now.... why didn’t excavators put guys on shovels out of work?
Did you object to the CNC tooling that was going to put so many workers out of jobs or did you recognise that it allowed those people to find new opportunities?
At what point will you recognise and accept that change is inevitable, and that you can either try and find solutions OR, you can try and find problems?

I do want there to be enough of it at a reasonable price.

Unfortunately, the reliability of an electrical supply is inextricably linked to the amount of money spent on the infrastructure and the workers employed within that network. Yes, clever companies can minimise the cost, but all else being equal, the cost will always be higher for more reliable supply.
It seems that you’re suggesting that the supply in your area isn’t up to the task, which would suggest that they need to spend money on upgrades. Are you willing to pay more for your power for this to happen or, are you going to keep complaining about the cost of power alongside the reliability of the network?

How many power companies had to use fossil fuel backups during the recent cold spell??

Maybe if they invested in battery tech (or other methods of production and capture) you wouldn’t see this problem crop up. But you’re opposed to that kind of spending, so it’s kinda hard to implement. …and then you have the gall to say that it’s the power companies fault that they keep having to use fossil fuels. Bizarre indeed.
I mean sure, if you’d advocated for them to invest money in the system and THEN it didn’t work as predicted, you’d have every right to complain…but it seems that you didn’t.

An idealized dream some years in the future does not keep us warm today. I do not want the working fossil fuel power grid taken away until the dream alternative can carry the load.

Agreed, technology that hasn’t been implemented properly has NO chance of competing with the existing system (if the existing system is properly performing).
The modern system can’t get up as long as people keep opposing it. You seem to think that the final aim is ZERO emissions. It isn’t. The aim is to head toward NET zero, which is not the same thing. I expect that fossil fuels will provide at least “some” coverage for the rest of my lifetime.

 

[sk47]

What does this indicate to you? To me, that suggests that perhaps the infrastructure is due for an upgrade. I say maybe because there are numerous potential reasons for such a situation. I’m reluctant to comment without the proper information.


Aspersions, not dispersions.


Welcome to living in a democratic society. Ever noticed how every time a new technology arrives, the doomsayers talk about how people won’t have jobs and then magically, everyone seems to have jobs in the new sectors that are created? How many people worked in IT in the 1700’s? Remember blacksmiths? I wonder what they’re doing now.... why didn’t excavators put guys on shovels out of work?
Did you object to the CNC tooling that was going to put so many workers out of jobs or did you recognise that it allowed those people to find new opportunities?
At what point will you recognise and accept that change is inevitable, and that you can either try and find solutions OR, you can try and find problems?


Unfortunately, the reliability of an electrical supply is inextricably linked to the amount of money spent on the infrastructure and the workers employed within that network. Yes, clever companies can minimise the cost, but all else being equal, the cost will always be higher for more reliable supply.
It seems that you’re suggesting that the supply in your area isn’t up to the task, which would suggest that they need to spend money on upgrades. Are you willing to pay more for your power for this to happen or, are you going to keep complaining about the cost of power alongside the reliability of the network?


Maybe if they invested in battery tech (or other methods of production and capture) you wouldn’t see this problem crop up. But you’re opposed to that kind of spending, so it’s kinda hard to implement. …and then you have the gall to say that it’s the power companies fault that they keep having to use fossil fuels. Bizarre indeed.
I mean sure, if you’d advocated for them to invest money in the system and THEN it didn’t work as predicted, you’d have every right to complain…but it seems that you didn’t.


Agreed, technology that hasn’t been implemented properly has NO chance of competing with the existing system (if the existing system is properly performing).
The modern system can’t get up as long as people keep opposing it. You seem to think that the final aim is ZERO emissions. It isn’t. The aim is to head toward NET zero, which is not the same thing. I expect that fossil fuels will provide at least “some” coverage for the rest of my lifetime.

Hello; I will repeat one thing which covers most of this rant. Times change and old jobs go away while new types of jobs crop up. One new tech replaces old tech. All that is historical. What you and your fellow champions seen to miss is the portion about mandates and incentives. Those are the things I object to with this agenda to force out a working transportation and energy system.
A new green energy tech or transportation tech which outperforms an existing tech will prevail on it's own merits and will not have to take my tax dollars to prop it up. Also let the EV's outcompete ICE's on their own with mandates banning the ICE. I see thru the scam as do so many others.

You champion an agenda which uses fear to goad people into accepting it. Dirty fossil fuels will destroy the climate so accept an untried & unproven new system to save the polar bears and such. Meanwhile throw away a working energy-transportation system on which literally billions of lives depend. Oh yeah, also spend tons more money to have this untested new tech.

I get some do not agree that crude is a finite resource. I do see that it will dwindle in recoverable amounts over time and some system will have to replace it. Thing is there is enough crude, natural gas and coal to last a good number of years. These artificial deadlines on the use of fossil fuels are not, in my opinion, a way to deal with the situation. If the "green" energy tech can prove good then I and others can accept it. If the EV's can outdo an ICE same sort of acceptance.

There is a true tale of the race to the pole many decades ago. One team used modern tech of the time. Clothing, canned goods , shelters and other then modern stuff. The other team used traditional clothing, dog sleds as the native Eskimoe (sp) had use for a long time. I can only recall one name just now - Edmonson i think. Want to guess which team failed and which lived. There was a movie called The Red Tent made about the expidetion as well as some documentaries. Just saying.


Footnote
Aspersions, not dispersions. OK I stand corrected.

"recognise that it allowed those people to find new opportunities?
At what point will you recognise and" How about recognize?

"Yes, clever companies can minimise the cost", How about minimize?

Hello; you really went there. Interesting.

 

[jtmat]

Hello; Go back to post #245 link number one. The bit about ends for a second time might be a clue.
Here is the thing for my area which you claim to be familiar with. The worst weather in terms of cold and snow usually happens during January or February. To have a cold spell such as the one in late December is not common. No way for me to predict if another artic blast will happen this winter but an early such spell has been followed by other similar episodes in past winters.
We had another cold few days with snow over the last weekend. Not as cold to be sure.

I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that if we get similar cold as in storm Elliot for as many days the same sort of power grid demand will happen again. Just saying.


Tennessee Valley Authority ends rolling blackouts across East Tennessee for a second time, Sevier County Electric System Knoxville Utility Board, SCES KUB (wate.com)

Goodbye; Every single link you posted is in reference to Elliot. In other words, you don't have a link for what you claimed. Got it. No biggie... reason why I don't run off researching your comments.

What does this indicate to you? To me, that suggests that perhaps the infrastructure is due for an upgrade. I say maybe because there are numerous potential reasons for such a situation. I’m reluctant to comment without the proper information.

They have been... they upgraded several coal plants to natural gas and have plans (against the recommendations of key stakeholders) to upgrade additional coal burners to natural gas. In other words they are getting out the "coal" business themselves.

One concern a stakeholder brought up is they are locking in a generation with expensive and volatile fossil fuels instead of adopting reliable renewable energy (solar panels). The guy who said it is of a particular political party... so take that for what it is worth (which is why I didn't link to the comment).

It also seems to be dipped into politics (board members are of one party being taken over by another party).

Sounds like a political mess. I won't post anything... or I'll get blamed for "bringing in politics to get the thread locked". Because some people can't control themselves....

Welcome to living in a democratic society. Ever noticed how every time a new technology arrives, the doomsayers talk about how people won’t have jobs and then magically, everyone seems to have jobs in the new sectors that are created? How many people worked in IT in the 1700’s? Remember blacksmiths? I wonder what they’re doing now.... why didn’t excavators put guys on shovels out of work?
Did you object to the CNC tooling that was going to put so many workers out of jobs or did you recognise that it allowed those people to find new opportunities?
At what point will you recognise and accept that change is inevitable, and that you can either try and find solutions OR, you can try and find problems?

So true... but it is unfortunate and sucks when you are one of the people directly impacted by the change (i.e. out of work).

Of course, not preparing and acting on change will have a more devastating impact on workers.

 

[sk47]

Goodbye; Every single link you posted is in reference to Elliot. In other words, you don't have a link for what you claimed. Got it. No biggie... reason why I don't run off researching your comments.

Hello; Lets us beat this dead horse some more. No I do not have a link to the exact story presented by a local TV station out of Knoxville TN around the time. The tease at the start of the broadcast was something like - Coming up. Why we might see more rolling blackouts according to ............
I cannot find that story itself. So, you win. I stand corrected in that i cannot provide a secondary source to back up my given word about what I heard.

 

[jtmat]

What you and your fellow champions seen to miss is the portion about mandates and incentives. Those are the things I object to with this agenda to force out a working transportation and energy system.
A new green energy tech or transportation tech which outperforms an existing tech will prevail on it's own merits and will not have to take my tax dollars to prop it up. Also let the EV's outcompete ICE's on their own with mandates banning the ICE. I see thru the scam as do so many others.

You do know that even the fossil fuel industry receives mandates and incentives, right?

The ship you are complaining about left the dock 15 to 20 years ago.

In addition, without those "mandates and incentives" I'm not sure companies like BYD would be building busses, cars, manufacturing machinery, etc. here in the USA... putting Americans to work.

https://en.byd.com/

You champion an agenda which uses fear to goad people into accepting it. Dirty fossil fuels will destroy the climate so accept an untried & unproven new system to save the polar bears and such.

Yea, fu** those polar bears. Matter of fact, the hell with all wildlife. Who needs it?

Meanwhile throw away a working energy-transportation system on which literally billions of lives depend. Oh yeah, also spend tons more money to have this untested new tech.

You are WAY behind... this ship also left the dock 15 to 20 years ago.

You should read more on the topic before posting.

You post the same stuff over and over... I don't think you actually have an argument.

What you call untried, unproven and untested is being used all over the world.

Wow... I see why you end up posting to yourself in threads. It is funny when you quote yourself in your replies... well, not funny... bit sad... but I've not seen that done anyplace else the way you do it!

 

[sk47]

They have been... they upgraded several coal plants to natural gas and have plans (against the recommendations of key stakeholders) to upgrade additional coal burners to natural gas. In other words they are getting out the "coal" business themselves.

Hello; Interesting. Some years or perhaps decades ago the anti-coal forces got many power companies to do an expensive makeover of power plants from coal to natural gas. The thinking appeared to be natural gas is so much cleaner and coal is so dirty. So, society caved into the demands and spent the money and converted many power plants to clean natural gas.
Well, what we have learned is giving concessions is never enough. Now clean burning natural gas is not good enough. Not for power plants nor for gas cook stoves in kitchens.
Having been led down the garden path several times many of us do not believe there will ever be an end to the next sets of demands. Humans affect the environment by being alive. Billions of humans are going to mess with the environment. The end game extended to a logical conclusion is we humans need to be subservient to wildlife/natures needs. I guess we should just go away.

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