GM is pulling back on EVs

[jtmat]

I'm glad America is keeping up with competition in the EV field. No use in letting other countries dominate and attempt to join in later.

This looks very similar to the horse and buggy rollout. There were bans, etc. on horses in towns at one point... pushing people to cars. Some didn't want cars because they wanted a "choice". Complaining that infrastructure was not in place for cars, not affordable, etc. History repeats itself.

From what I've seen countries are talking decades for EV development and full rollout. In that time, we can and will have multiple breakthroughs in technology. Some speak as if we will remain stagnant.

As said before, I'll keep my ICE until EVs get much longer range... by then I'd expect to have somewhat decent infrastructure built.

All the complaints of rebates when some of the best selling don't even qualify. The Inflation Reduction Act will make electric vehicles cheaper for U.S. buyers. It won’t, however, apply to some of the most popular EVs. Hell, based on income I won't qualify... so there is that. I'll have a choice... EV, gas, horse/buggy, or walk whenever I'm looking again (which I hope is a long time from now).

Why do Corvette enthusiasts seem happy with an all electric (and hybrid) Vette?

Chevy Corvette E-Ray Sure Looks Ready for Winter
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a42340348/the-corvette-e-ray-sure-looks-ready-for-winter/

Our latest 30-second glimpse at the electrified C8 Corvette may show the benefits of all-wheel drive in the snow. We do know that the version we have seen in a recent configurator leak should bear the E-Ray name and a wide body familiar to anyone who has seen the C8 Z06. We do not know where exactly the electric power is being sent just yet, but the latest leaked video gives some hope that, as we heard all the way back in 2020, the power may be going to the front wheels.

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[tripleyellowmustang]

Freedom of speech doesn't oblige you to be rude and insensitive though. It is possible to be kind, sensitive and thoughtful as well as embracing freedom of speech and behaviour. If you are just a contrary oaf for the sake of it that isn't so clever!

It is possible to be illegal and immoral by speech alone

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/20...eople-for-offensive-online-comments-one-year/

Yeah, we know all about British freedom of speech.

 

[sk47]

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/20...eople-for-offensive-online-comments-one-year/

Yeah, we know all about British freedom of speech.

3,300 + people arrested for comments made online. Yeah, great freedom of speech.

 

[sk47]

This looks very similar to the horse and buggy rollout. There were bans, etc. on horses in towns at one point... pushing people to cars. Some didn't want cars because they wanted a "choice". Complaining that infrastructure was not in place for cars, not affordable, etc. History repeats itself.

From what I've seen countries are talking decades for EV development and full rollout. In that time, we can and will have multiple breakthroughs in technology. Some speak as if we will remain stagnant.

Hello; Some details about the horses banned in towns would be nice.

Hello; More of the "someday" the problems will be fixed pie in the sky optimism. Wonder what is wrong with get the problems solved before mandating overall adoption. That a statement like this flows so often and so easily in a discussion of EV's from a champion is a big tell the problems are massive.

 

[sk47]

Why EVs May Literally Be The Downfall Of Old Parking Garages (msn.com)
Hello; Something I had not yet considered. The overall weight of multiple EV's in a parking garage.

Also if I read correctly, in some places an outright ban on ICE after 2030. Not just no new ICE sales.

 

[jtmat]

Hello; Some details about the horses banned in towns would be nice.

Goodbye; Do your own research. Gee... it is basic stuff. You really don't know about the laws passed? Some places outright banning horses some passing laws to make ownership less desirable (i.e. requiring horses be stabled). History repeats itself... read a bit. Let us know what you find out.

This might help... since you seem to struggle:

Hello; More of the "someday" the problems will be fixed pie in the sky optimism. Wonder what is wrong with get the problems solved before mandating overall adoption. That a statement like this flows so often and so easily in a discussion of EV's from a champion is a big tell the problems are massive.

Goodbye; Which "problems"? You mentioned recycling, but I showed where they are building a plant in SC to address that "problem". You seemed to ignore that days later.

Are these issues or things we need to work out? I was watching a youtube channel yesterday and they mentioned like 40+ new EVs coming to the market. Sounds like the market has spoken. These have been in development for a while so none of the new laws impacted those decisions.

Champion? There you go again with the "them against us" tactic. Again, I'm not for nor against EV... I definitely don't want one right now.

I'm pro America. We have to keep moving forward or we die. We don't keep our place in the global economy because we sit idol... allowing others to control our destiny. I'll support gov't providing businesses support to ensure we train/retain skilled labor, new jobs, etc. right here in America.

The oil industry still receives billions in subsidies.

 

[sk47]

The Big Crapple: NYC Transit Pollution from Horse Manure to Horseless Carriages - 99% Invisible (99percentinvisible.org)
Hello; Did some research. Seem you exaggerate. Yes in NY city at one time there was a huge horse dumplin problem. I already knew of that issue. Seems at one point in time there were so many horses pulling wagons/ carrages around and taking dumps in the streets. Seems the rule to stable the horses at night was to help keep streets clean.
Did not find information of horses being banned eight to 12 years before ICE trucks became viable. As the ICE truck became more practical the use of horse drawn wagons dwindled is the way i understand it. I did not do an exhaustive search but what I did find was about wagons and not single rider horses.
Thing you seem to miss with this attempt to rewrite history is that the ICE replaced the horse because it became an immensely more practical vehicle system. Yes all the tons of manure on the streets was one of the issues which made trucks better than horse drawn wagons.

There are modern times places where horse drawn carriages are restricted and i found a group currently trying to get them off the city streets. My take is these are tourist sort of carriages for people to take scenic rides.

Back in the 1950's when I was a young lad there was an old man who had a mule and a wagon. I saw him and his mule on the streets of Middlesboro KY. Guess he died at some point.

But to your history repeats itself comment. That will be fine by me. When the EV becomes a more practical and in fundamental ways a better vehicle than an ICE, then it deserves to put the ICE out to pasture. Even you admit you will not have an EV today, but will "someday." Most anyone who is not looking at EV's thru rose colored glasses can see they are inferior to an ICE in almost every way.

Goodbye; Do your own research. Gee... it is basic stuff. You really don't know about the laws passed? Some places outright banning horses some passing laws to make ownership less desirable (i.e. requiring horses be stabled). History repeats itself... read a bit. Let us know what you find out.

 

[tripleyellowmustang]

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/13/why-toyota-the-worlds-largest-automaker-isnt-all-in-on-evs.html
Hmmmm. Muh EV.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ev-battery-recycling-lack-policy-2022-12

Hmmmm. Muh EV battery problem in California.

 

[jtmat]

Did not find information of horses being banned eight to 12 years before ICE trucks became viable.

Goodbye; Your entire argument lays in ashes at your feet... and this is what you come up with. It is ridiculous and I loved it...

 

[RagmopInKona]

I'm glad America is keeping up with competition in the EV field. No use in letting other countries dominate and attempt to join in later.

This looks very similar to the horse and buggy rollout. There were bans, etc. on horses in towns at one point... pushing people to cars. Some didn't want cars because they wanted a "choice". Complaining that infrastructure was not in place for cars, not affordable, etc. History repeats itself.

From what I've seen countries are talking decades for EV development and full rollout. In that time, we can and will have multiple breakthroughs in technology. Some speak as if we will remain stagnant.

As said before, I'll keep my ICE until EVs get much longer range... by then I'd expect to have somewhat decent infrastructure built.

All the complaints of rebates when some of the best selling don't even qualify. The Inflation Reduction Act will make electric vehicles cheaper for U.S. buyers. It won’t, however, apply to some of the most popular EVs. Hell, based on income I won't qualify... so there is that. I'll have a choice... EV, gas, horse/buggy, or walk whenever I'm looking again (which I hope is a long time from now).

Why do Corvette enthusiasts seem happy with an all electric (and hybrid) Vette?

Chevy Corvette E-Ray Sure Looks Ready for Winter
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a42340348/the-corvette-e-ray-sure-looks-ready-for-winter/

Our latest 30-second glimpse at the electrified C8 Corvette may show the benefits of all-wheel drive in the snow. We do know that the version we have seen in a recent configurator leak should bear the E-Ray name and a wide body familiar to anyone who has seen the C8 Z06. We do not know where exactly the electric power is being sent just yet, but the latest leaked video gives some hope that, as we heard all the way back in 2020, the power may be going to the front wheels.

Again if they are so great why do they need incentives funded by tax dollars to sell them.
No need to answer, we all know the REAL reason for the push to a fleet that they can control with a flip of a switch.
Most are fine with ev's hell I own one. what we are not ok with is the public funded hand outs unfair trade practices and mandates. If they are the savior of the human race, there should be no need to shove them down everyone's throat forcefully.
And again, ev's won't stop or slow any climate change when the shipping ocean ships emissions are 12 times the vehicle fleet of the usa and that is JUST the ships that unload at our docks. world wide it is even worse. but nothing to see here, move along.

oh and FYI there never was a ban on horses, unlike the coming bans on fuel powered vehicle.
but nice try.

 

[sk47]

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/13/why-toyota-the-worlds-largest-automaker-isnt-all-in-on-evs.html
Hmmmm. Muh EV.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ev-battery-recycling-lack-policy-2022-12

Hmmmm. Muh EV battery problem in California.

Hello; The second link is an eye opener. Gotta love it. mandate the use of battery EV's but did not appear to give much thought to battery disposal.
Back in the 1970 when I joined in the ZPG movement (zero population growth) we had lots of ideas which had nothing to do with keeping population from exploding exponentially, which it has done. These were pollution reduction ideas
One idea was a bottle deposit bill which morphed into a disposal deposit bill ideal. Neither made any headway. The bottle bill was simple and evolved from the old returnable soda bottles. Back in the day soda bottles had a two cent deposit charge. I could buy a ten ounce coke for a dime. If i drank it at the store i could turn in the empty for 2 cents. There were no empty soda bottles lay about back then.
My grandfather ran the bottle washer at the local coke plant. After being cleaned the bottles were refilled and resold. It was estimated the average bottle could be used around 24 times before it was broken.
One of my jobs as a teen was as a helper on the soda delivery trucks. I had to go to the empty bottle shack of a market and sort out the coke bottles. At the first few stops I would get on top of the truck bed and catch the cases of empty bottles. Eventually we had an empty bin to put the bottles in.
Now days all the soda bottles are one time & one way. That is the trash after use. The bottle bill idea was o have some small deposit added to the product at the time of first sale. Say two cents or a nickel. Just something enough so the empty could be turned in for a deposit refund. The idea was pitched to be applied to all appliances. Say you bought a washer and had a $25 deposit added. That was the value of it's disposal was built in from the start. Do that for other consumables and wind up with people willing to pick the stuff up off the road.

So why not a disposal fee added to the EV battery. Make an old battery pack worth something other than trash.

But as you know my fight for preventing out of control population growth and roadside trash reduction failed completely. We now have a few extra billions of people and an old plastic soda bottle is trash no one will pick up.

 

[sk47]

Goodbye; Your entire argument lays in ashes at your feet... and this is what you come up with. It is ridiculous and I loved it...

Hello; interesting. My post had five paragraphs and a link. You picked out one sentence which is true as far as i know.

 

[jtmat]

Again if they are so great why do they need incentives funded by tax dollars to sell them.
No need to answer, we all know the REAL reason for the push to a fleet that they can control with a flip of a switch.

You really don't know what's happening... wow...

And again, ev's won't stop or slow any climate change when the shipping ocean ships emissions are 12 times the vehicle fleet of the usa and that is JUST the ships that unload at our docks. world wide it is even worse. but nothing to see here, move along.

Hint... go research Maersk.... not that hard. Point is progress is being made. Think the shipping industry says it may take to 2050. Give you a hint...
Maersk will operate the world’s first carbon neutral liner vessel by 2023 – seven years ahead of schedule

oh and FYI there never was a ban on horses, unlike the coming bans on fuel powered vehicle.
but nice try.

Just a little bit of research would help you tremendously! Ha ha ha...

 

[tripleyellowmustang]

https://www.medicaldaily.com/california-battery-plant-residents-risk-cancer-arsenic-emissions-387361

Previous California car battery recycling nightmares.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianaf...battery-powered-evs-could-increase-emissions/

Another opinion regarding EV batteries.

But muh environment.

 

[sk47]

You really don't know what's happening... wow...



Hint... go research Maersk.... not that hard. Point is progress is being made. Think the shipping industry says it may take to 2050. Give you a hint...
Maersk will operate the world’s first carbon neutral liner vessel by 2023 – seven years ahead of schedule




Just a little bit of research would help you tremendously! Ha ha ha...

World’s first carbon neutral liner vessel by 2023 | Maersk
Hello; They will have one vessel running on methanol (think indy car). The 'neutral' part of carbon neutral being the key. Methanol burns and produces emissions so the carbon must be offset somehow.
You are correct it is not so hard to find the information. Make me wonder why you choose not to bolster your claims with information???

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