GM is pulling back on EVs

[sk47]

Tesla Owners Punishing Peers Who Tie Up Superchargers Without Charging (msn.com)

Hello; Learned a new term "EVoles". EVholes

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[sk47]

Most of that is a rant. As soon as people start mentioning travel controls and lockdowns / vaccines on an EV thread it gets a bit silly!

There are many places in the world where EV sales are strong and countries where penetration is much higher than you suggest. No significant subsidies in the UK and this is what sales are doing (December was a little odd for various reasons so look at year to date). Are all these people idiots? Green zealots? Sheep?

Hello; The notion is that in some places EV sales are up and this is supposed indicate some level of popularity. I see a likely flaw in this. That being in some states (USA) and perhaps also in other countries there is a looming ban on the sale of ICE vehicles. That alone has gotten me to look further into EV's than I would have otherwise. 2030 is now less than seven years away. Seven years may seem a long time to the younger folk, but it is not. Do these mandates influence current buyers overmuch?? I cannot say for sure but do suspect so.

Next is the active measures in place which have pushed fuel costs way up. Gasoline is not as high as it was just months ago but is still higher than pre 2020. Diesel however is very much still high. Over $5.00 per gallon just recently. I can see why diesel purchases are down. Then there is the socioeconomic factors such as the Russian war and what that has done to fuel supplies. Could be some folks are buying into the hype that an EV will save them money.

Saving money is part of the sales pitch of EV's in terms of operation costs which includes maintenance and saving on fuel over gasoline/diesel. I do not know if any ever-had contracts with balloon payments. Such was that you might have some small payment every month for a long time, but the last payments were much higher. Maintenance costs appear to be that way with an EV. Fewer moving parts so less to tear up the ads claim. Maybe so but after some years a battery replacement cost will do two things. One makes the older EV not worth the battery replacement cost, so the chassis becomes a throw away item. Second the trade in value on an older EV will tank.
My point being some folks may be buying EV's purely based on the idea it will be cheaper to own and run. Such does not seem to be the case. EV's cost more to buy than an ICE. Only if you can afford to install a charger at home will you save on fuel costs. Those who must charge at commercial public fast chargers actually pay more than an ICE driver will pay according to a few real-world examples. I am going to assume the heavier EV's will use up tires, brakes and such faster than an equivalent ICE. A smaller EV sedan might weigh as much as a full-sized pickup is my take. So, I question if a false sense of economy might have some buying EV's currently???

But i could be wrong about the attitudes of my fellow human beings. Just because an EV does not make sense in nearly every way to my thinking does not apply to all people. May be that all the downsides I see are not an issue to so many people. If so, I do not get it. My thinking has been there must be a lot of virtue signaling overtaking practicality. I just do not see the EV as a practical alternative yet.

 

[sk47]

Electric vehicles don’t pass shipping line safety assessment: ‘We will never compromise’ (msn.com)

Hello; No need for my comments.

 

[AZlb5.0]

Most of that is a rant. As soon as people start mentioning travel controls and lockdowns / vaccines on an EV thread it gets a bit silly!

There are many places in the world where EV sales are strong and countries where penetration is much higher than you suggest. No significant subsidies in the UK and this is what sales are doing (December was a little odd for various reasons so look at year to date). Are all these people idiots? Green zealots? Sheep?

You do know that there are more cars on American roads then there’s people in the UK right? You know that the largest consumer of vehicles per capita in the world is America right? China with a population of a billion people buy 21 million cars a year. America with a population of 300+ million which is a third of Chinas population buys 14 million cars a year. You can’t compare a country that has on the road about 30 million cars to a country that has 298 million cars on the road.

But let’s do the math. Dividing the number of EVs (any/all version of them) on UK roads to the number of cars here to get that popularity percentage and it comes out to .00316 of a percent. EVs are not as popular as people think. But we can certainly keep pushing that agenda. I think numbers are fairly clear then again it’s 2023. The year where facts go to die.

 

[Gregs24]

You do know that there are more cars on American roads then there’s people in the UK right? You know that the largest consumer of vehicles per capita in the world is America right? China with a population of a billion people buy 21 million cars a year. America with a population of 300+ million which is a third of Chinas population buys 14 million cars a year. You can’t compare a country that has on the road about 30 million cars to a country that has 298 million cars on the road.

But let’s do the math. Dividing the number of EVs (any version of it) on UK roads to the number of cars here it comes out to .00316 of a percent. EVs are not as popular as people think. But we can certainly keep pushing that agenda. I think numbers are fairly clear then again it’s 2023. The year where facts go to die.

That's just silly.

The cars on the road in UK are obviously less than the US being a much smaller country but the percentage adoption is the bit that matters because that equalises out between countries of a different size.

I think you need to look again at China. Looking like 6 million EV/PHEV cars will be sold in 2022 in just one year. They are huge numbers and more to the point 40% or so of total sales! This is why huge investment is taking place in the US into EV's, which takes us right back to the start of this thread where Stellantis are cutting ICE plant output to concentrate on EV investment.

No agenda and certainly using UK EV's as a percentage of US cars and saying it is very small is a completely pointless figure. If 100% of cars in the UK were EV it would still be a small number compared to total US cars but local market penetration is what is actually important.

GLOBAL EV sales reached 10% of all cars sold in 2022 compared to 8.3% in 2021. That is reality whether you like it or not.

Oh and your cars per capita data is not correct

List of countries by vehicles per capita - Wikipedia

Oh and more cars sold in China than any other country = biggest market in the world which is why so many car makers such as Ford make cars in China. You close your eyes and the US car industry will be gone.

 

[AZlb5.0]

That's just silly.

The cars on the road in UK are obviously less than the US being a much smaller country but the percentage adoption is the bit that matters because that equalises out between countries of a different size.

I think you need to look again at China. Looking like 6 million EV/PHEV cars will be sold in 2022 in just one year. They are huge numbers and more to the point 40% or so of total sales! This is why huge investment is taking place in the US into EV's, which takes us right back to the start of this thread where Stellantis are cutting ICE plant output to concentrate on EV investment.

No agenda and certainly using UK EV's as a percentage of US cars and saying it is very small is a completely pointless figure. If 100% of cars in the UK were EV it would still be a small number compared to total US cars but local market penetration is what is actually important.

GLOBAL EV sales reached 10% of all cars sold in 2022 compared to 8.3% in 2021. That is reality whether you like it or not.

Oh and your cars per capita data is not correct

List of countries by vehicles per capita - Wikipedia

https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car-sales-by-country.html
Youre right is silly but you brought the UK in comparison to the US in popularity of EVs. A correlation had to be made and that can only be done through math. And 10% sales on a global market is nothing more than a drop of water in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. You will not get majority of the human population to buy EVs unless it’s mandated period full stop. ICE vehicles are cheaper to maintain cheaper to attain and cheaper to keep on the road. Facts are just that facts

 

[Paul McWhiskey]

Come on, guys! Lay off of Gregs24's religion.

 

[AZlb5.0]

Come on, guys! Lay off of Gregs24's religion.

 

[Gregs24]

https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car-sales-by-country.html
Youre right is silly but you brought the UK in comparison to the US in popularity of EVs. A correlation had to be made and that can only be done through math. And 10% sales on a global market is nothing more than a drop of water in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. You will not get majority of the human population to buy EVs unless it’s mandated period full stop. ICE vehicles are cheaper to maintain cheaper to attain and cheaper to keep on the road. Facts are just that facts

10% is far from a 'drop in the ocean' unless you class 7 million plus cars every year a 'drop'.

ICE vehicles are NOT 'cheaper to maintain' or 'cheaper to keep on the road'. They are actually between 25% and 30% CHEAPER to run. People ARE buying these cars no matter what you think. The facts are indeed the facts.

 

[Gregs24]

Come on, guys! Lay off of Gregs24's religion.

I have no religion, especially not EV's. I don't ignore reality either!

I drive a V8 Mustang remember.

 

[AZlb5.0]

10% is far from a 'drop in the ocean' unless you class 7 million plus cars every year a 'drop'.

ICE vehicles are NOT 'cheaper to maintain' or 'cheaper to keep on the road'. They are actually between 25% and 30% CHEAPER to run. People ARE buying these cars no matter what you think. The facts are indeed the facts.

Lol keep thinking that EVs will willfully be majority of car sales in any version of any universe that the government doesn’t make it a mandate. Facts are just that facts. When governments world wide shut the spigot to oil production and gasoline is when EVs will take over ice vehicles and that again will be a government made crisis not a natural one.

 

[Gregs24]

Lol keep thinking that EVs will willfully be majority of car sales in any version of any universe that the government doesn’t make it a mandate. Facts are just that facts. When governments world wide shut the spigot to oil production and gasoline is when EVs will take over ice vehicles and that again will be a government made crisis not a natural one.

It's a bit late then.

The reason why EV's are taking over is well understood, even if BEV's may not be the only route forward.

Nobody is 'mandating' sales of EV's in any country that I know of. Some provide incentives / penalties but you can still buy a Mustang GT in the UK for example even though EV sales are booming.

Some countries such as Norway are well ahead of the curve on EV's. The population isn't mandated to buy EV's. Somebody posted here a year or two ago that EV cars could NEVER exceed 10% even in Norway - looks a little silly now as predicted, where EV's are over 20% of vehicles on the road and make up 80% of sales. People choose to have them.

I don't drive an EV. My wife has a PHEV which she loves and running costs are a fraction of what they were for her old diesel powered car. How is that wrong? We got NO subsidy at purchase and have NO subsidy to run it compared to the old car. My wife CHOSE that car without any government mandate and likes it, as do many others.

 

[AZlb5.0]

It's a bit late then.

The reason why EV's are taking over is well understood, even if BEV's may not be the only route forward.

Nobody is 'mandating' sales of EV's in any country that I know of. Some provide incentives / penalties but you can still buy a Mustang GT in the UK for example even though EV sales are booming.

Some countries such as Norway are well ahead of the curve on EV's. The population isn't mandated to buy EV's. Somebody posted here a year or two ago that EV cars could NEVER exceed 10% even in Norway - looks a little silly now as predicted, where EV's are over 20% of vehicles on the road and make up 80% of sales. People choose to have them.

I don't drive an EV. My wife has a PHEV which she loves and running costs are a fraction of what they were for her old diesel powered car. How is that wrong? We got NO subsidy at purchase and have NO subsidy to run it compared to the old car. My wife CHOSE that car without any government mandate and likes it, as do many others.

We keep talking past each other. If people willfully want them great but what many like myself see in the future is a “man made” crisis like many world wide that will “push” people towards EVs with no other choice. I am all for personal choice like many here but we can’t deny there’s a government agenda behind EVs. If it never comes down to governments, world wide causing a manufactured crisis, to get rid of ICE vehicles then I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong. But looking around us today governments world wide keep causing crisis to get people to do as they wish. I hate governments and I don’t trust any of them. Why? Because what I did for our government in the name of God and “country,” showed me that we are on a fishbowl. Then those who own the fishbowl, throw a piranha in every so often to see what will happen to the goldfish just for their pure enjoyment.

 

[Gregs24]

We keep talking past each other. If people willfully want them great but what many like myself see in the future is a “man made” crisis like many world wide that will “push” people towards EVs with no other choice. I am all for personal choice like many here but we can’t deny there’s a government agenda behind EVs. If it never comes down to governments, world wide causing a manufactured crisis, to get rid of ICE vehicles then I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong. But looking around us today governments world wide keep causing crisis to get people to do as they wish. I hate governments and I don’t trust any of them. Why? Because what I did for our government in the name of God and “country,” showed me that we are on a fishbowl. Then those who own the fishbowl, throw a piranha in every so often to see what will happen to the goldfish just for their pure enjoyment.

There is indeed a man made crisis that is driving non ICE alternatives forward. That isn't a government 'induced crisis' but a real one.

 

[AZlb5.0]

There is indeed a man made crisis that is driving non ICE alternatives forward. That isn't a government 'induced crisis' but a real one.

I’ll agree to disagree

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