Ford out GM in with FPC

[PP0001]

I actually like the sills on the 2016 more.

Agreed that the door sills for the first two years of production looked the best!

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[460Fred]

Sure wouldn't want to be the guy to say "We need to change sparkplugs" (On the GT40)

Since you brought it up, here’s a local LaMans GT40 resto.

 

[Wildcardfox]

Here’s the movie car. Car is almost impossible to drive if you’re tall. Drove it for 15 mins and that was all I could take. And zero visibility other than what’s in front of you.

 

[Hi-PO Stang]

Probably no worse visibility than my 1971 Flatback Mach 1 SCJ Mustang.

 

[Wildcardfox]

Probably no worse visibility than my 1971 Flatback Mach 1 SCJ Mustang.

when you need to get over, you can’t see right, left, or backwards. The best option is to floor it and the get over.

 

[key01]

Probably no worse visibility than my 1971 Flatback Mach 1 SCJ Mustang.

Worst Mustang I ever owned for visibility. Like driving to college with the car loaded to the ceiling with crap.

 

[JohnVallo]

The word is GM’s C8 is getting a larger displacement flat plain crank for the ZO6.
Heard anything?

From a pure -perfectly designed FPC engine-, producing max horsepower, in my opinion, Ford made several compromises with the Voodoo 5.2 that ended up differing greatly from the Ferrari 458 engine, and Ferrari California front engine car they used to study as a benchmark/baseline.
Here’s a little history:
https://www.autoblog.com/2016/07/27/inside-ford-shelby-gt350-screaming-v8/

This write-up is just one mans opinion (mine), focusing primarily (with facts) on What was done, and secondarily (with a little speculation) on Why it was done.

My take is it went something like this:
First was the Single Intake Plenum. Whether the reasoning was for -clearance & space- (Packaging), or less parts, -single throttle body, etc.- (Cost). I’m not sure, maybe both.
The single plenum intake when run through Ford’s computer simulation produced better airflow/power with a UDUD crank journal layout, as compared to a UDDU.
Here’s a supporting article:
https://www.automobilemag.com/news/...ut-the-ford-shelby-gt350-mustangs-v-8-engine/
Here's perhaps my favorite discussion:
https://mechanics.stackexchange.com...ticular-firing-order-for-their-flat-plane-v8s

This UDUD crank configuration required more weight on the crankshaft, especially in the center journal area. Also, the UDUD configuration created a little more primary/first order vibration, due to the inside-out firing order on the front two cylinders, and the outside-in firing order on the rear two cylinders. This configuration basically fires the cylinders from the rear to the front in order. This caused a rocking, teeter-totter effect adding more vibration than the UDDU configuration, which as I understand it, almost killed the project.

“According to Ford Group Vice President of Global Product Development Raj Nair, Ford considered scrapping the flat-plane crank concept entirely due to the vibration issues experienced by early 5.2L prototype engines.”
Here’s the rest of this interesting article:
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/flat-plane-silliness-how-crankshaft-press-release-duped-stephen-kim

The additional weight (a heavy front damper, and a somewhat heavy dual-mass flywheel & twin-disk clutch), probably was not a real bad thing, as this higher and quicker revving engine ended up with 429 ft lbs. of torque, compared to Ferrari's 398.

Here's some inside info directly from Ford engineering boss Jamal Hameedi
https://www.edmunds.com/ford/mustan...-gt-coyote-voodoo-cross-plane-flat-plane.html

Here’s some other good discussion, articles, and comments:
https://www.quora.com/Why-doesnt-th...-close-to-the-Ferrari-V8s-with-similar-design
https://www.wardsauto.com/2016/ford-s-52l-high-revving-masterpiece
https://forums.autosport.com/topic/196735-among-the-flat-plane-crank-configurations-for-v8s/

Here’s some back and forth on:
Why Did Ford Decide to do a Flat-Plane Crank Differently?
https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=401468

More technical info on theory:
http://www.projectm71.com/Cross_FlatPlane.htm

Summary:
Bottom line here is “Did Ford copy Ferrari’s FPC design”, Absolutely NOT
This was a most unique design effort from Ford, and one that I am so glad that happened.

I am most interested to see the details in what GM has (design wise) in their upcoming FPC engine for the C8 Z06
A little different sound for sure, and I'm hearing numbers like 9,000 RPM's

 

[460Fred]

You big brain guys amaze me!
When I get back from work I’ve got some good reading ahead of me.
Thank you John

 

[crazymayhem]

I sat in the C8 at a dealers reveal here in Florida. I really do like the car - but me being 6'6" - the limited time I had at the reveal suggested its a nogo for me.
Once everything gets back up to speed - I will for sure be spending more time with it at the dealer - and hope that some of the things ive read about the seat adjustment are true and would allow me to find that inch I need in height to get below the roofline.....

 

[460Fred]

I sat in the C8 at a dealers reveal here in Florida. I really do like the car - but me being 6'6" - the limited time I had at the reveal suggested its a nogo for me.
Once everything gets back up to speed - I will for sure be spending more time with it at the dealer - and hope that some of the things ive read about the seat adjustment are true and would allow me to find that inch I need in height to get below the roofline.....

I’m almost in the same boat at 6’4”.
During the reveal, I was told I’d need the competition seats because they were an inch lower. This is why I’m going with the GT350, much more room. Plenty of leg room though.

 

[GTthree50]

Quite a lot of great information shared in this thread. I'm in the camp that really loves the higher pitch of a traditional UDDU flat crank firing order along with the equal length headers. An early Car and Driver write up on the GT350 echoed the reasons why the firing order was changed, how the crank gained weight and other changes like the single intake plenum and different exhaust layout and their effect on the sound and power delivery. If it wasn't for smog laws here in CA I'd be looking at equal length headers too. Not because I do not like the VooDoo sound, just personally want it to sound more like what I thought it might sound like when the project was announced.

Should be really interesting to see what the engineers at Chevy do with the Vette engine. Ive read that it will have an absurd amount of torque as well, something that is not typically seen with a flat crank layout, so I'll be watching with interest.

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