First HPDE - Oh Nooo

[GT_Roadcourse_Newb]

I think just about every performance driving instructor will tell you to turn off the babysitters. No TC, Advance Trac, all that shit. The driver needs to drive the car and have full control and natural feedback from the car. I've always done that for any years, no issues.

There is no other way to truly learn your vehicle IMHO.

The thought just occurred that I will probably end up driving the car in the mode that results in the fastest laps without sacrificing safety.

I want to try the car out in all its facets, but I suppose I should want to learn/eventually innately know how it will behave in the optimum setting laptime-wise.

So I wonder if driving with Advance Trac OFF (no nannies/TC at all) allows faster times generally..? (I know, probably totally subjective to the driver but perhaps there is some general impression?)

I hope this makes sense, coffee still not working.

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[BTM]

Hmmm, my GTPP has only ~1700 miles on it now, and I'll be taking it for its' first track sessions tonight at the same track as OP (Thunderhill - it's SCCA Track Night tonight).

Will watch out for this diff overheat warning and report back....

Update - Track night was great last night, although only ended up with 2 x 20min run sessions on the T-hill 2mile west circuit because a 1st gen Camaro decided to explode its engine and coat the track surface with oil and coolant.

Ran pretty hard in Sport VSC mode, definitely doesn't neuter the car and will let you carry a decent slip angle for awhile, but still giving a good safety cushion against spinning. No warning lights or over middle-of-range-ish temps on anything that is monitored by the factory gauges.

Although I did come up with another question related to redline behavior / risk....but I'll start a new thread so as to not hijack this one

 

[Impulsed7]

Sport is what I recommend to most drivers unless you have years of track time under your belt already. Doesn't hinder, and will save you when you screw up.

 

[GT_Roadcourse_Newb]

Just got back from a couple great days at Thunderhill. The car was awesome.

Quick summary:
The more traction control employed, the more likely to get the "Axle temperature high, reduce speed" warning message. (I know, not a surprise)
Running Advance Trac OFF did not trigger any message, which is a relief. Sport Mode I got the message as I was exiting the track at the end of the session.

I got a bunch of great pictures from the pro photog outfit, but, unfortunately my video quality was almost completely washedout because noob here tried to homefangle a camera setup and it wound up making my particular outdated camera focus on the dashboard. Too bad, but at least I can estimate laptimes.

I also dyno'd the car, 3rd pull was slightly better than 2nd.
360.86 HP 319.69 Tq
81.27 F
29.61 in-Hg
Humidity 26%

Thunderhill is awesome

 

[Norm Peterson]

Sport is what I recommend to most drivers unless you have years of track time under your belt already. Doesn't hinder, and will save you when you screw up.

From an old guy who's never tracked or autocrossed a car equipped with stability control (let alone 'modes') . . . if Sport Mode saves you when you screw up, will you have known that you screwed up? Or if you recognized that you screwed up, how might Sport's intervention affect your judgment of whether you'd have been able to save it without help?

I understand the reasoning behind recommending some level of safety net be maintained for drivers new to tracking and/or considerable power who have had these driver assist technologies available to them for much or perhaps all of their driving career. What about those drivers who don't fit into that set, or who have brought cars to the track that are not equipped with stability control as an alternative to their S550? What would be a good suggestion for those situations?


Norm

 

[stoli]

From an old guy who's never tracked or autocrossed a car equipped with stability control (let alone 'modes') . . . if Sport Mode saves you when you screw up, will you have known that you screwed up? Or if you recognized that you screwed up, how might Sport's intervention affect your judgment of whether you'd have been able to save it without help?

From my experience, there will be little doubt your screwed up. The best example I have is coming out of a hairpin and getting on the throttle too hard, too early. In Sport mode you'll still get a significant slide before the system kicks in and saves you from a spin. The big downsides is you can't 'drive' out of relatively small slides / over-steer before throttle gets cut to get you back in line.

 

[Optimum Performance]

From an old guy who's never tracked or autocrossed a car equipped with stability control (let alone 'modes') . . . if Sport Mode saves you when you screw up, will you have known that you screwed up? Or if you recognized that you screwed up, how might Sport's intervention affect your judgment of whether you'd have been able to save it without help?

I understand the reasoning behind recommending some level of safety net be maintained for drivers new to tracking and/or considerable power who have had these driver assist technologies available to them for much or perhaps all of their driving career. What about those drivers who don't fit into that set, or who have brought cars to the track that are not equipped with stability control as an alternative to their S550? What would be a good suggestion for those situations?


Norm

From my experience, there will be little doubt your screwed up. The best example I have is coming out of a hairpin and getting on the throttle too hard, too early. In Sport mode you'll still get a significant slide before the system kicks in and saves you from a spin. The big downsides is you can't 'drive' out of relatively small slides / over-steer before throttle gets cut to get you back in line.

If you drive your car in sport mode and can set the chassis perfectly you will never feel interferance from the modes. If you over drive the car it shows up. Smooth is fast, these cars can make better lap times over driven just due to acceleration and braking, but a perfect lap with throttle on turn-in depending on the track I think you could be just as fast. That's what I found when I was at Daytona, felt so slow but was the fastest in the session.

My biggest ah-ha moment was going out with the chief instructor in his NSX on Comp R's and seeing him taking a turn at 30 where I was trying to do it at 40, in a street tired car that weighs twice as much :doh:

 

[Norm Peterson]

I sincerely hope they've improved the associated nannies that much since 2010.

My one experience with ESC intervention was that it happened under an unreasonably low-intensity maneuver (in my wife's Subaru LGT). Benign as far as what sort of help it understood the immediate situation to require to be sure, but frustrating because the car became unresponsive with a dragging brake feel about it . . . which became a little unnerving with a merge into 60 mph traffic coming up.


Norm

 

[S550SWEETRIDE]

"Performance Packaging" relative to street driving and performance packaging for 20 minutes or more at 8/10ths or higher of the car's capabilities are two very different things.

The average owner isn't going to bleed his brakes several times a year with fluid costing $20/liter and up, and the good track stuff absorbs moisture quicker and needs to be bled/changed more frequently even if the stuff that comes out at first doesn't look bad. In my experience, the first couple of pumps from the front calipers looks a good bit worse than this after just one track day.

Nor should the average street driver use track pads even if he's convinced himself that he can live with the downsides (noise, dust, accelerated rotor wear).


Norm

Norm, you here too huh. Heh Heh. My hawk HT-10s solved this issue of being a goof track/street pad that doesn't eat rotors or leave excessive brake dust all over the place. Not as good as the top level pads but still good enough in some cases.

 

[GT_Roadcourse_Newb]

I just ordered some EBC Yellowstuff for GTPP front and rear will let you know how that goes. Also am considering going WOT on my wallet. I should invite comment from the nice folks who contributed to this thread.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51208&goto=newpost

 

[NvrFinished]

I just ordered some EBC Yellowstuff for GTPP front and rear will let you know how that goes. Also am considering going WOT on my wallet. I should invite comment from the nice folks who contributed to this thread.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51208&goto=newpost

Do you still plan to do HPDE's with the addition of a supercharger?

 

[GT_Roadcourse_Newb]

Why would you even ask that? Of course

 

[NvrFinished]

The reason I ask is that I've heard many stories of people having issues with heat soak at driving events - particularly positive displacement superchargers.

 

[GT_Roadcourse_Newb]

The reason I ask is that I've heard many stories of people having issues with heat soak at driving events - particularly positive displacement superchargers.

Interesting.. More info or example threads most welcome!

 

[NvrFinished]

Hopefully the other experienced track guys can chime in. I'm currently putting my list together to mod my car for road course work. I was interested in a power adder, but after looking into it most people were not recommending superchargers. Centrifugal blowers don't create as much heat as a PD blower, especially if the boost is turned down some, but they still build heat. The constant WOT is what does it. Much different than a quarter mile pass or street driving.

Also PD blowers create separate issues with instant torque when existing corners that can be hard to control. After doing some reading and asking some questions, I decided staying NA was best.

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