ECOBOOM!

[hmdballa219]

So what exactly did your personal mechanic do with regards to his looking at your enable that Ford was able to tell something was amiss physically on the exterior of the engine?

Is the car blowing any smoke?

As far as trading it in, no Dealer is going to want to do a trade on it if it has a blown engine. Even if they were to consider, you're going to still take a big hit on the trade value. Not knowing your position financially on the car, was it being financed or leased? If you owe on it, are you currently upside down? Just some things to consider, that's all.

Unfortunately, the repair cost is not cheap. I think one guy on here had to pay out of pocket due to his blowing up due to a tune as well... I can't recall the exact price out of pocket to replace the engine, but I think it was upwards of $7k... Someone may be able to find his thread.

It sucks that it happened, but if you can get another engine - at least it will be a new engine (Cleveland) with the most up to date parts... And it may even be warranted if the R&R is done by a Ford Service Center. So on the positive side, you'll have a brand new engine, still have your Mustang and if you owe on it, you're still knocking down months on the current loan.

I mean either way you're going to toss $$$ if you hand over keys to Dealer for any possible trade or end up getting it fixed...I am pretty sure you'll save more $$$ in the long run by just fixing it, instead of having to lose more by trading and having to spend more $$$ on another vehicle.

Well we thought it was a lifter (or cup I've been told) originally so my mechanic knows a ford mechanic at a local dealership . tried to drive it. Didn't even get it down The street a mile and it got horribly worse and wouldn't even let me accelerate properly like a bad knock. So I took it home and had roadside lock it up and take it there ..they called me back and said ford said no to the warranty and that the motor is blown and not salvageable....and ya they said 6300 installed for the new motor.
Ya I'm debating trying to get rid of it ..or building it and beefing it up..Or just putting stock and getting rid of it. It obviously can't handle the beating I give to it.

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[hmdballa219]

What was your OAR? Were you monitoring that at all?

I'm going to guess the mechanic was either a swami in that he simply touched the engine and diagnosed it. More likely that he took a look at all your bolt on's and then took the cover off and checked you for aftermarket plugs too and that was enough digging.

I'm not too surprised. Your 'full-bolt-on' status whether your tune was taken off or not (engineer can probably find that without too much difficulty) was an easy thing for them to deny you for.

Sucks. I would wait for a thorough diagnosis from Ford but you are really at the mercy of them telling you whatever they want.


Were you stranded somewhere? If this ever happened to me I would try my best to get the car back to my house to take all the bolt on parts off. That will give you the best chance of getting something covered.

Ya it was the normal -1.00. And ya that was the funny part I was asking them for a diagnostic and shed like the motor is blown. I'm like give me details ."it's blown and not repairable" that's all they would tell me. And ya I'm sure they just looked and said us were just gonna tell him it's bad so we can get it out of here. So I'm gonna get it towed back to my house and have my mechanic look at it .no I wasn't stranded I was on my way home from work . got home and then had my mechanic look at it first.

 

[TheLion]

just an excess aceleration while leaving work, nothing THAT crazy. And the stock motorcraft, only have 12k miles on it.

Do you guys remember when I said Cobb OTS Stage 3's where the most common on the Focus ST "blown engine" list in the TST optimization thread? User has a Stage 3 OTS tune from Cobb unless the signature is not accurate.

Their stage 3's seem to really push the limit on the the Focus ST's and there's a laundry list of blown Stage 3's. Now I'm not suggesting everything Cobb makes is junk or going to blow your engine.

However there is clearly an issue and what ever it is they are doing in their Stage 3 tunes is high risk and it's not panning out for a lot of people with the Focus ST's. I would not trust it with that kind of a record.

Most of them (Cobb Stage 3 Focus ST's) failed from cracked piston heads. That's a sure sign of knock not being controlled properly. It may be a combination of things like regulating a higher boost and running a very aggressive knock strategy. When knock occurs it's exceeding the capabilities of the hyperutectic pistons (forged pistons would be more knock tolerant at higher than factory boost levels). All engines have some knock tolerance built into them, but when we start increasing power, we may exceed the tolerance capabilities, especially if it's not managed properly.

This is the first blown 2.3L with a Cobb Stage 3 I've personally seen. But given their track record with the Focus guys I would advise people to stick with vendors who are more specialized in domestic architectures such as Adam, LMS, Lund etc...or at the very least follow ALL of the hardware modifications to mitigate risk of knock.

IC, 160F thermostat, upgraded radiator, low NOAC oil, 1 or 2 step colder plugs, run 91 octane tune but use 93 octane. The way this engine failed is itendicle to what is described by Focus ST guy's, car was running fine until a few minor issues, did some WOT or hard driving, car seemed ok, then during light load (2k to 4k rpm) during more normal driving engine just stopped working (some users had bad shutter, rough idle just prior to etc).

Once the car was diagnosed by the dealer the biggest majority of them have cracked pistons or failed rings / lands both of which typically occur from uncontrolled knock.

Some failures (mostly on stock cars) were attributed to a stuck or poorly flowing injector. But most of the modified cars that was not the believed cause.

 

[hmdballa219]

Wait what???? First time I've ever heard of this. Not saying it's not true but can you go a little more in depth.

Me neither tbh

 

[TheLion]

Me neither tbh

There is only a rumor that the Valencia motors were different than the Cleveland motors. "Supposedly" Ford revised the wrist pin design at some point, but that was more attributed to a new year (aka all 2016's and up supposedly had the new wrist pin). Not a build location change.

It would be interesting to create a spread sheet of blown 2.3L's, the manufacture date, the conditions (aka tuned, stock, etc.) and the build location. We could at least draw inferences based on the statistics gathered to have a general idea if there is any truth to this.

I think Glenn G. mentioned the wrist pin re-design, but said it was not something he could prove definitively. I did a bunch of research a while back and could not find a single documented piece of evidence to prove that one way or another. From what it sounds like Adam did, it's most likely not true.

However, here's the thing, manufacturing processes do change and are refined. It is possible the manufacturing process has been refined to reduce assembly related issues which result in defective or sub-par engines. We would never be privy to that as it's all internal to Ford.

 

[klineka]

How many times do we have to tell you kids to NOT void the warranty if you can't afford to fix it yourself?



Also, all this talk about Spain vs. US engine is nonsense is it not? What evidence exists that there are actual part differences between these engines? I thought Adam from Tune+ broke down a Spanish engine and found some bolts were not torqued correctly but no part difference. Correct me if I am wrong and please provide documentation to back up your claims.

I think this is the post you are referring to, from everything I've read, I cant find anywhere that indicates that a new rod was used for the Cleveland engines, but I still think it holds true that none of the Cleveland motors have had the rod issue correct? :shrug:

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62370&highlight=cleveland+spain

 

[TEXAS HEAT]

Ya it was the normal -1.00. And ya that was the funny part I was asking them for a diagnostic and shed like the motor is blown. I'm like give me details ."it's blown and not repairable" that's all they would tell me. And ya I'm sure they just looked and said us were just gonna tell him it's bad so we can get it out of here. So I'm gonna get it towed back to my house and have my mechanic look at it .no I wasn't stranded I was on my way home from work . got home and then had my mechanic look at it first.

What Stage of the Cobb tunes were you using when it let go? Ambient temps, CAT's, were you monitoring knock or Ignition corrections? I didn't see an intercooler listed in your signature...

 

[gtmorgan23]

Well that sucks man.

Things like this make me apprehensive to modding my wifes Ecoboost other than a drop in filter and FMIC. Not sure if Ill get it tuned.

 

[Slow89]

There is only a rumor that the Valencia motors were different than the Cleveland motors. "Supposedly" Ford revised the wrist pin design at some point, but that was more attributed to a new year (aka all 2016's and up supposedly had the new wrist pin). Not a build location change.

It would be interesting to create a spread sheet of blown 2.3L's, the manufacture date, the conditions (aka tuned, stock, etc.) and the build location. We could at least draw inferences based on the statistics gathered to have a general idea if there is any truth to this.

I think Glenn G. mentioned the wrist pin re-design, but said it was not something he could prove definitively. I did a bunch of research a while back and could not find a single documented piece of evidence to prove that one way or another. From what it sounds like Adam did, it's most likely not true.

However, here's the thing, manufacturing processes do change and are refined. It is possible the manufacturing process has been refined to reduce assembly related issues which result in defective or sub-par engines. We would never be privy to that as it's all internal to Ford.

No not the e-code vs non e-code motor debate.... I was a believer but the two fastest stock block cars are both Spain motors lol.


She said the fuel pumps fail.... That's the first time ever heard of a fuel pump problem

 

[Maggneto]

I think this is the post you are referring to, from everything I've read, I cant find anywhere that indicates that a new rod was used for the Cleveland engines, but I still think it holds true that none of the Cleveland motors have had the rod issue correct? :shrug:

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62370&highlight=cleveland+spain

Yes that is the thread I was talking about, nice find. So this is the best evidence I have seen of an actual flaw in the build process in Valencia engines which is directly related to most of the failures according to Adam. I am not aware of any Cleveland engine failures on this forum.

From Adam,

"The issue that I have found between the older engines and the newer engines is in the assembly only. The part number has to change when the location of assembly changes. With the early engines every failure I have seen from dealers, other tuners, forum/facebook members, and myself is related to the rod in some capacity. Either a rod bolt failure or a rod failure (mid break). There has been one that it looked like a wrist pin failure but it is hard to say when there is catostrophic failure.

I have disassembled a GOOD early 2015 engine and the rod bolts were not torqued consistently they were all over the place, and only a few were at actual torque spec (estimated as factory is ft/lbs+degree). Build quality was definitely lacking."

 

[Maggneto]

Was built in may i believe thought if that helps. Anyway to trade in or cut my losses some how?[/QUOTE]

If the Mustang was built in May-2015 the Engine would be from around Feb-March 2015 which is around the time of the change to Cleveland. Can you take a picture of the engine build sticker on the front of the engine right under the plastic cover and post it?

My Mustang build date is Jan 5 2015 and the engine build date is 10-29-2014?

 

[Lost]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Sucks when the only way out is $$.

 

[Weather Man]

Get on fleabay/salvage sites and find a junkyard replacement.

 

[TheLion]

Get on fleabay/salvage sites and find a junkyard replacement.

Regarding the 2015 failures, that was my general theory as an alternative if the design didn't actually change, that it was related to manufacturing process variances.

Adam's thread certainly seems to confirm that theory.

BTW, that's where I got my GT PP diff, e-bay, for $650. Runs $1900 new on Americanmuscle....

 

[Weather Man]

Regarding the 2015 failures, that was my general theory as an alternative if the design didn't actually change, that it was related to manufacturing process variances.

Adam's thread certainly seems to confirm that theory.

BTW, that's where I got my GT PP diff, e-bay, for $650. Runs $1900 new on Americanmuscle....

Look at the 11 coyote, they popped them like popcorn. By 2012, they had it figured out, mostly, and not near as many failures.

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