EB Isn't the Only One

[Seceda91]

Fuel economy, taxes and tightening emission regulations around the world are driving the auto industry towards motors and powerbands like this.

The little Camaro def. has weight on its side. I wonder if GM makes an intercooler as crappy as Ford does. That would be an interesting thing to find out.

Yeah, I was wondering about the IC of the Camaro as well. It's not faster an an EB stock for stock and only one will know if they can get to the 12's with just a tune, IC and CAI.

Haha that's funny how you said little Camaro. With 2.0T and ~3300 lb weight, it's def. the right name for it!

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[TheLion]

The 2.0T Camaro definitely wasn't intended to be a competitor to the 2.3L EB. The longer stroke of the 2.3 gives it a definitely a significant torque advantage (and small power advantage) right out of the gate (assuming heat soak isn't sapping it).

The V6 is GM's answer to the 2.3L while their 2.0T is their answer to the Ford V6, but performance wise, stock the 2.3L and V6 mustang are nearly identical to each other and to the 2.0T Camaro. Ford doesn't really have a direct competitor (at least stock) to the 2016 V6 camaro.

No, the 2015's are way different, they are much heavier and make less power so they weren't really competitive. But GM stepped up their game in large part to the Cadillac ATS chassis used in the 2016 Camaro's of all flavors, which gave them an edge in both weight and handling stock. New engines or updated engines only added to that.

Ford needs to perform some chassis lightening efforts on the mustang, while it's not a pig, it's not a feather weight either. Either that or the will need to be pushing quite a bit more power from the factory.

 

[K-Roll302]

There's no doubt that a good tune when combined with a FMIC keeps the top end strong all the way out, run after run. Here's a dyno of an otherwise stock 2016 EB, tune only (Livernois 93, but not my car, hoping to get mine dynoed in the new year when I"m not so busy):

Hey, that's me!!! :cheers:

 

[TheLion]

Hey, that's me!!! :cheers:

No crap? Lol, how funny is that? I just found a you tube video of online randomly to see what the dyno looked like for Livernois newer tune revisions Stage 3 V7's since the dyno graph on their promo videos was way back from early 2015. Looks like they managed to push a lot more power at around 4k rpm compared to their previous tunes. The upper range is still the same, which is perfectly fine as it's great. Also explains why the car's power band feels so darn flat...you get everything around 4k and it just stays.

I really like that power curve overall, there's a ton of area under it and that explains why when I hold at 4k for bit to spool up or downshift til I get to about 4k and then step on it the car just launches like mad ever time. It makes good power from 4k to red line no doubt.

That dyno graph explains a lot about the power band now that had me a bit baffled when I looked at the one on their promo video, holding over 280 wheel horse power from 4,000 to 6500. This is what they show in their promo video from 2015 for their 93 tune:



Your mods are quite similar to mine, but I'm geared a bit lower with the 3.73 Torsen rear, my FMIC is much larger and I'm running their 91 tune (but with 93 octane) for out of state travels, we'll see if that hurts or helps performance at all compared to yours. We'll get an idea of how much pressure drop the Levels Gen 3 FMIC's really have compared to a well designed OE replacement unit like the CP-E. The Levels is BIG and honkin, 20x14x3.5 inches...so the real question will be does that cause enough pressure drop to hinder performance in any way. I would expect at most no more than an average of 10 whp and 10 wtq difference between 91 and 93 tunes, but we shall see once I get to the dyno.

 

[Jake]

Here's a question, has anyone been able to tune out the under steer with swaybars / springs? I have the Ford Performance X Street lowering springs, but stock base model sway bars and I still get a noticeable under steer mid corner. The question also becomes, if I eliminate or can eliminate the under steer, do I loose the "rotating" characteristic of the car when exiting corners, that I will say this thing just rockets on corner exit, combine that with PP brakes for a fast hot entry and I'm wondering if that was compromise that had to be made.

There are different situations in which mid corner is more important than entry and exit, such as wide sweeping turns on a large, high speed track, but on a tighter track with lots of sharp turns, like auto cross courses, I'm wondering if fast entry / exit are more important than mid corner.

I have seen this answered a couple different ways from sway bars for fine tuning an already good suspension to one of the first suspension mods you should do. I think removing some slop first (CB005, vertical links, etc.) makes sense before larger changes, but that's just me. Then you at least know what you're working with since everything is a little more stable.

 

[JamesinLittleSilver]

Here's a question, has anyone been able to tune out the under steer with swaybars / springs? I have the Ford Performance X Street lowering springs, but stock base model sway bars and I still get a noticeable under steer mid corner. The question also becomes, if I eliminate or can eliminate the under steer, do I loose the "rotating" characteristic of the car when exiting corners, that I will say this thing just rockets on corner exit, combine that with PP brakes for a fast hot entry and I'm wondering if that was compromise that had to be made.

The Ford Track Pack gets rid of a lot of the under steer, I am a novice HPDE 1 so not an expert on it at all. But, yes I found with that and tire change I couldn't drive the same way. Roll is gone and throttle steer is much more pronounce. I gave my before and after G readings on the same track quite a bit higher.

 

[apx632]

Biggest problem out on a track with our cars (performance package included) is brake dive. Under have braking the car dives on the nose and the rear end tends to dance around. I know I've had the car almost come around on me once, but luckily saved it.

 

[TheLion]

I may go with adjustable sway bars instead of the FP ones even though I have FP Street X lowering springs. That will give me some ability to tweak it or even change it for different tracks relatively easily. I can adjust for more rear end traction (softer front, stiffer rear) or if I need more steering (stiffer front and softer rear). With 3 positions in front and 3 in the rear, you have 9 possible combinations.

I can buy the vertical links separately at a later time, but I think taking up the slop is probably more of a fine tune rather than a major change. Remember I have base model sway bars, so mine are definitely not performance oriented, at least with a PP car you have some what stiffer sway bars.

With factory coil springs the car felt more like an Raptor than a sports car, sure it handled better than my cheapo 07 tin can Focus ST, but nothing like the crisp response of MX-5 I had in college. It was...plush, although it did soak up bumpy roads nice and just glided over them with ease. After upgrading to the FP Street X lowering springs, it was drastically improved, but when I push it, there's definitely quite a bit of under-steer and still some noticeable body roll which I'm thinking I should be able to tune out mostly with sway bars and maybe sharpen up the steering a bit more with the strut tower brace.

Although this steering has 0 slop, it could be a bit more predictable, given the lack of feedback at least it would have some better merits.

 

[TheLion]

Hey, that's me!!! :cheers:

Are you rockin the auto or stick?

 

[baddbradd]

The price of the Camaro is how much more vs the Ecoboost? way too much....I couldn't live with myself with a 2.0 in an elephant

 

[PRG3k]

Biggest problem out on a track with our cars (performance package included) is brake dive. Under have braking the car dives on the nose and the rear end tends to dance around. I know I've had the car almost come around on me once, but luckily saved it.

Good tires can put a huge fix on that problem. It happened all the time with my squirrely Pirelli's. A good set of 275's on all four corners has eliminated it. For the base model either that or stiffer shocks would do the trick.

 

[apx632]

Good tires can put a huge fix on that problem. It happened all the time with my squirrely Pirelli's. A good set of 275's on all four corners has eliminated it. For the base model either that or stiffer shocks would do the trick.

Good to know. I'm on the stock goodyear 235 all seasons so it's even worse I'm sure. Hopefully in the spring I can pick up a set of wheels and do a 275 square set up and a front/rear sway bar.

 

[TheLion]

Good to know. I'm on the stock goodyear 235 all seasons so it's even worse I'm sure. Hopefully in the spring I can pick up a set of wheels and do a 275 square set up and a front/rear sway bar.

Depends on weather you want to track it or strip it. For the drag strip smaller wheels are going to be faster. A set of 18x8.5 fronts and 18x10 rears as more tire and less wheel means less unsprung mass.

For track, the small increase in unsprung mass may be a better trade off for more 4-corner traction, but if you could find a wide set of 18's, you might be able to have your cake and eat it too! 18's to my knowledge with fit PP brakes, they are the smallest wheel that will fit stock PP brakes. my 201A base model came with 18x8's, but not the PP brakes :(

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