Clear as mud

[Juben]

Guys, you have to remember that this is a new engine, the 2.3EB specifically, and with that comes what you're seeing right now. Right now, there isn't anything specific appearing to be consistent among the failures. By discussing the failures and what happened, hopefully we can glean information about what's happening, figure out the root cause(s), and then take the necessary precautions to circumvent that happening. It sucks that these engines are blowing, but we have to remember a few things.

First, the engines on here are only representative of a VERY small percentage of the EBMs sold around the world. The problem might be more widespread, but then again, it might be very narrow in it's scope. These engines are just over a year old, so there's still going to be a lot of learning to do with them. It's not like a 4G63 or SR20 that's been around for decades, and that brings me to my next and second point.

If you're afraid of your car blowing up or having issues, just don't mod it. I don't mean that to come off sounding like a dick either, so please don't misinterpret it as such. Modding any car is going to significantly increase the potential for failure, and people have to realize that. No one is forcing anyone to do mods, so if you're scared or timid about it, just don't do it.

I see so many people frustrated because they have the desire to mod their cars, but they've been frightened by these engine failures over the last month or so. However, the fact of the matter is, you can't be mad over people discussing it or trying to figure out what's going on. The only way we'll stop it is to try to acquire data, analyze it, locate potential failure points, and determine ways to mitigate, or at the very least minimize, the exposure to those risks.

You have to make a decision. Mod or don't mod. However, don't get frustrated or upset because of the failures. No car is bulletproof and anything can happen at anytime. It's like life to an extent. You can get injured in a car crash, but you either drive it or walk everywhere.

What you can do if you decide to mod is to follow the best practices for the platform and keep your fingers crossed. Once again, that's modding. No one can produce a tune that's 100% safe or that's guaranteed to never have problems. There's just too many variables, and you have to determine if the risk is worth the reward.

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[Lexman]

I understand if I tune my car there is risk. I'm clear on that part.

It could simply be the excitement of the forums, whether good news (awesome quarter mile or new hp record) or bad news (hey guys my engine blew) that creates this hypocracy.

There are outlined guidelines I've noted for general precaution but after that it goes quite extreme.

The messaging on the boards of how great the tune is, it's safe, I do this or that and no issues.

Then someone has an issue, and iits commented he didn't do this. Ok, noted and that might need to be added as a precautionary measure. Insert someone again stating they have a tune, using insert measure, no issues it's great. And it has been repeating. If these were spaced ou over several months it might be different, I don't know.

Frustrating? Yeah if your trying to setup your car properly for a tune. I can imagine more if you have a tune and now it feels like you didn't do something right.

I'm quite ok with detail discussion on each precautionary measure and their merits and options. Fantastic stuff! I also like reading the lasting person to install something or experience their car just tuned.

Maybe we won't know for sure what's happening, but the saying it's safe but reminding your on your own and the well the guy did or didn't do this or buy this is taxing on the fun factor.

That's why I bought the car. That's why I'm interested in what the cars potential is. I think no one goes into modding this car and thinks "better starting saving when the engine blows".

Again I get it, if I tune the car I accept risk. I also think we are a community trying to help each other realize the potential of the car and minimize risks. Not trying to sound like a jerk just trying to talk about things and maybe sort it out.

 

[ZenkaiRacer]

I'm gonna chime in on this if your worried don't mod your car talk. We shouldn't have to be as worried as we are with this engine. It seems this engine is tuned much closer to the edge than past turbo 4 cyl engines. Which means it doesn't have much head room for power potential.

I come from years of working on 4G63's. Which is truly the 2JZ of the 4cyl world. That engine is a beast. My 2g DSM puts down right about at 400whp on 91 octane at 4700ft elevation. I''ve been beating on this thing for years. I've had the car for 12 years and still on the original long block.

When I saw the price that an ecoboost stang could be had at, I jumped on it with minimal research. I hoped it would be near a 4G63 in beastliness. And I just absolutely love the styling of the S550.

These engine boom posts are making me weary of even putting a tune on the car. Where as with the 4G63 I wasn't even weary of learning to tune on it myself.

When I buy a factory turbo car, I think I'm going to have some significant headroom to make power. Not have something that's gonna shit a brick if I run one more psi.

All in all, yes modding is always a risk, but with this engine it seems the risk is higher than it should be. Hopefully these threads are just making me paranoid without warrant.

 

[Damndave]

I'm gonna chime in on this if your worried don't mod your car talk. We shouldn't have to be as worried as we are with this engine. It seems this engine is tuned much closer to the edge than past turbo 4 cyl engines. Which means it doesn't have much head room for power potential.

I come from years of working on 4G63's. Which is truly the 2JZ of the 4cyl world. That engine is a beast. My 2g DSM puts down right about at 400whp on 91 octane at 4700ft elevation. I''ve been beating on this thing for years. I've had the car for 12 years and still on the original long block.

When I saw the price that an ecoboost stang could be had at, I jumped on it with minimal research. I hoped it would be near a 4G63 in beastliness. And I just absolutely love the styling of the S550.

These engine boom posts are making me weary of even putting a tune on the car. Where as with the 4G63 I wasn't even weary of learning to tune on it myself.

When I buy a factory turbo car, I think I'm going to have some significant headroom to make power. Not have something that's gonna shit a brick if I run one more psi.

All in all, yes modding is always a risk, but with this engine it seems the risk is higher than it should be. Hopefully these threads are just making me paranoid without warrant.

I'll try to be as polite as possible, this is your opinion but you have no business being in these forums.... I personally think everything you just said as completely wrong, and you are a perfect example of why others with no issues freak out. Please don't take this as a bash or I'm being a dick, I'm just being honest and passionate and I apologize for any disrespect you might feel, but I had to say it.

 

[PRG3k]

When I buy a factory turbo car, I think I'm going to have some significant headroom to make power. Not have something that's gonna shit a brick if I run one more psi.

If that's the verdict on the Ecoboost engine in 10-15 years then so be it. But you compare it to the 4G63 and SR20 both which have been around for decades. Were you there the first year those motors launched? This motor is brand new. It could be remembered poorly in 15 years or a great motor that suffered some early jitters. Making long term judgments isn't fair, nor does it make sense.

 

[PRG3k]

By the way for the obviously long line of posters of these endless threads, why not start posting them in the 'Issues, Repairs, Warranty, TSB, Recalls' section.

Makes way more sense than 'Bolt-ons, Exhaust, Tuning' if you ask me. It not fair for the guys who actually want to talk about about building more power, auxillary fueling, big turbo's etc. It's forum clutter at this point and there's a different place for it.

 

[Glenn G]

I'm gonna chime in on this if your worried don't mod your car talk. We shouldn't have to be as worried as we are with this engine. It seems this engine is tuned much closer to the edge than past turbo 4 cyl engines. Which means it doesn't have much head room for power potential.

I come from years of working on 4G63's. Which is truly the 2JZ of the 4cyl world. That engine is a beast. My 2g DSM puts down right about at 400whp on 91 octane at 4700ft elevation. I''ve been beating on this thing for years. I've had the car for 12 years and still on the original long block.

When I saw the price that an ecoboost stang could be had at, I jumped on it with minimal research. I hoped it would be near a 4G63 in beastliness. And I just absolutely love the styling of the S550.

These engine boom posts are making me weary of even putting a tune on the car. Where as with the 4G63 I wasn't even weary of learning to tune on it myself.

When I buy a factory turbo car, I think I'm going to have some significant headroom to make power. Not have something that's gonna shit a brick if I run one more psi.

All in all, yes modding is always a risk, but with this engine it seems the risk is higher than it should be. Hopefully these threads are just making me paranoid without warrant.

Do you not remember the crankwalk issues with 6 bolt 4g63s or SR20's rocker arms flying off so much that the aftermarket made a killing selling rocker arm stoppers? Rb26s were plauged with some oil pump failures, 2jzs were actually pretty solid and only after about 12-15 years start having crank walk issues too. EJ motors and the #3 piston stories are everywhere

Hell Coyotes had the BBQ tick problem and #8 piston failures, so far 4 GT350s (3 on this forum) have failed due to oiling issues and Nissan VQ engines were also going pop at a decent rate in the beginning.

The 2.3 Ecoboost is actually doing fairly well 2 years in comparison, in fact I have not heard of an Ecoboost made after 04/2015 going pop.

But if you are worried, just don't mod it.

 

[04SloSnake]

Do you not remember the crankwalk issues with 6 bolt 4663s or SR20's rocker arms flying off so much that the aftermarket made a killing selling rocker arm stoppers? Rb26s were plauged with some oil pump failures, 2jzs were actually pretty solid and only after about 12-15 years start having crank walk issues too. EJ motors and the #3 piston stories are everywhere

Hell Coyotes had the BBQ tick problem and #8 piston failures, so far 4 GT350s (3 on this forum) have failed due to oiling issues and Nissan VQ engines were also going pop at a decent rate in the beginning.

The 2.3 Ecoboost is actually doing fairly well 2 years in comparison, in fact I have not heard of an Ecoboost made after 04/2015 going pop.

But if you are worried, just don't mod it.

This, just all of this.

 

[ultimate warrior]

Id say this - just be patient. Return your Cobb or sell it, maybe put some rims and springs on it, and wait it out

Whether it has a glass jaw, poor QC in manufacturing, a defect by nature (LSPI), or something else - whatever the verdict is people will figure it out. Maybe after another year or two rule of thumb will be replacing pistons/rods first or something else.

 

[Juben]

It frustrates me that people get frustrated and make these posts because this motor isn't a 4G63, 2JZ, RB26, LS1, Coyote, etc. Every single engine has had it's teething problems! It's like going to the doctor. He's going to tell you what to do for good health with a list of best practices. You can follow those and REDUCE the possibility of something bad happening, however, you CANNOT ELIMINATE the possibility of something bad happening. It's kind of a luck of the draw kind of deal with everything. Do the best things you can to circumvent something happening and keep your fingers crossed.

No one, not even Adam, can give you a magical list of steps to follow that will completely evade the potential for catastrophic failure. I mean, am I missing something here? It comes off like people want to be able to follow a set of guidelines or best practices and be guaranteed to never experience a failure of any magnitude. That's just not reasonable or plausible even.

Again, I don't mean to come off as a dick with what I'm saying, but what do people expect? Be realistic!

If you mod an engine, there's a largely increased potential for failure, whether small or great. You have to decide whether that risk is worth the reward. It's always going to be give and take. Even built motors can still blow up! I've seen it happen hundreds, if not thousands, of times over the years. Those people knew what the risk was though and still pursued it.

Bottom line: If you want factory reliability, then keep it factory! :shrug:

 

[ultimate warrior]

If you mod an engine, there's a largely increased potential for failure, whether small or great. You have to decide whether that risk is worth the reward. It's always going to be give and take. Even built motors can still blow up! I've seen it happen hundreds, if not thousands, of times over the years. Those people knew what the risk was though and still pursued it.

Bottom line: If you want factory reliability, then keep it factory! :shrug:

but the concern is - we dont feel that even at factory settings the motor is reliable.

where the line is drawn between bottom end hp capacity, factory QC, LSPI, etc is not known.

with an SR motor, the bottom end was good for 350 rwhp, with a proper tune. if you were running a tuned ECU by a reputable tuner, you were fine. however the engine was never prone to unreliability in factory trim - ever. factory motors simply didnt 'pop'. we are seeing this with the EB motor, hence the concern.

 

[stang77]

but the concern is - we dont feel that even at factory settings the motor is reliable.

where the line is drawn between bottom end hp capacity, factory QC, LSPI, etc is not known.

with an SR motor, the bottom end was good for 350 rwhp, with a proper tune. if you were running a tuned ECU by a reputable tuner, you were fine. however the engine was never prone to unreliability in factory trim - ever. factory motors simply didnt 'pop'. we are seeing this with the EB motor, hence the concern.

I understand the concerns. I believe Adam was holding 500whp on the stock block. I'm sure he would never tune a customers car to that level on stock form. You can have issues with any engine. As Juben said in his post, every motor has its teething problems. As far the motors that have poped, none of us on here have the 100% truth about the cause. All we can do is speculate. This forum represents maybe about 2% of all the Ecoboosts sold around the world.

 

[Glenn G]

but the concern is - we dont feel that even at factory settings the motor is reliable.

where the line is drawn between bottom end hp capacity, factory QC, LSPI, etc is not known.

with an SR motor, the bottom end was good for 350 rwhp, with a proper tune. if you were running a tuned ECU by a reputable tuner, you were fine. however the engine was never prone to unreliability in factory trim - ever. factory motors simply didnt 'pop'. we are seeing this with the EB motor, hence the concern.

Ha, I''ve seen my share of popped redtops. The factory impeller were also a big weakpoint on the turbo. The stock 2.3 will hold 400 whp all day long. A stock SR is oh ever A slight overrev away from disaster. It wasn't untill the blacktop that the majority of issues were resolved.

 

[ultimate warrior]

Ha, I''ve seen my share of popped redtops. The factory impeller were also a big weakpoint on the turbo. The stock 2.3 will hold 400 whp all day long. A stock SR is oh ever A slight overrev away from disaster. It wasn't untill the blacktop that the majority of issues were resolved.

popped redtops = idiot swaps / shit tunes / piggyback ECU


you've probably seen 1/20th of SRs that Ive seen. motor is bulletproof. red or black.


only time people were throwing of rockers is with shit tunes, too high RPM, or aftermarket ECUs with the rev limit set to fuel cut not ignition cut.

 

[ypena02]

but the concern is - we dont feel that even at factory settings the motor is reliable.

What data do you have to support this concern? The handful of cases on this forum? Do you understand the minuscule percent of EB Mustangs this forum makes up?

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