Christians DON'T really practice what they preach most days

Discussion in 'Politics | Firearms | Religion' started by 1MEAN18, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. 1MEAN18

    1MEAN18 Well-Known Member

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    I was stunned when Christian pastors all over America started lining up in support behind Trump back in 2016. I mean I get it, 8 years of Obama nearly wore all of us conservatives out, those 8 years we were constantly losing battles to the left which caused a lot of angst. Now, after 3 solid years of daily immoral and abusive behavior out of their "chosen one", Trump is finally starting to lose grip on the leaders of American Christianity. I say what the hell took so long! Why, not being a Christian myself, but being a long time Republican conservative, was I able to be immune from the wish to get some political wins and some conservative judges to stop abortion and other immoral things in America while excusing all the other bad behaviors? In 2016, I didn't think what we'd get from Trump (any R would have appointed those judges actually) was worth selling your soul for. Now that a lot of Christians have done just that, for some political wins, was it worth it to them? I sure hope so because as a voting block, Christians sure did hurt the perception of Christianity around the world by making such a sad and fleeting choice. I'm heartened to see a tipping point happening now, a fresh look at who this con man really is, and his behavior and actions are finally catching up to him! I'm not saying the left is any better, they aren't in my opinion but at least they don't co-opt any religions to help them do their dirty deeds. Now you can instantly disregard this message if you'd like, I know a lot of Christians aren't really much into freedom of choice or getting news from any source that is not Fox News, so you can deny my message because its a news clip from a rival cable news source, but after watching a few this morning, I came to the conclusion that this one was the one that was the most concise and accurate at reporting what Graham said thru his magazine and the media. So I leave information for you, if you are willing to not judge the messenger (even though we know Christians are generally pretty horrible at the commandment "judge not, lest thee be.") which is a direct biblical quote from the only person who should be their lord and master, Jesus Christ. If your lord and master is the almighty dollar, a politician or anything else, well then I don't expect you to like this message at all and I'm sure I'll get some pretty judgemental and hateful comments here just pointing that fact out.
     
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  2. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

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    From what I've seen, many church leaders tend to be naive about human behavior. They often seem to think that socialism or communism is a great system, despite history. That's just my experience though. Church leaders are individuals just like all of us and they have their own thoughts. I don't think taking any large group, lumping them all together and then stereotyping their thoughts and actions usually gets you to an accurate end.

    Anyway, my point is that I can easily forgive a Christian group for saying something negative about Trump. Christian groups can be dumb and misguided just like any secular group.

    I think Trump has done a lot to improve not only conditions here in the US, but the world. I would like to see more leaders who are independent thinkers and don't just follow the machinery of our corrupt political/economic system. If I'm looking at Trump through the lens of Christianity I would be glad he's in office. I feel having record low unemployment and rising wages is good - especially for the people of the US who are most in need. There's a pretty noticeable gulf between record high welfare roles under Obama and record low unemployment under Trump.

    Trump may not conform to ideals of politeness in his personal behavior, but it's pretty apparent that he is helping Americans.
     
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    1MEAN18

    1MEAN18 Well-Known Member

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    And again you make your point using gov't stats that nobody trusts to be accurate. And again, you make this point which is not provable by any means that people are better off under Trump. Sorry but I don't see manipulated gov't stats as truth, I prefer to actually talk to people in real life, and from what I hear lately, the guy who works 2 jobs to make ends meet doesn't feel like he's getting ahead. And obviously you haven't seen worldwide polls on who likes Trump. They are in single digits in Europe, a little higher in Asia (they are used to authoritarianism though) in the 30 some % range, his polling in other Western countries like Australia put him slightly ahead of stomach flu in likeability so what you are referencing from around the world doesn't fit at all what I see from many, many, many sources. Perhaps try looking at the world thru a lens that isn't so narrow so you can find the truth about what the world really says about Trump when polled. You're gonna be shocked if you take up my challenge to do so. Also, on your other point, I've never said Trump hasn't helped some Americans....he's definitely helped the uber-wealthy with tax cuts that added more $ in a year to our deficits than Obama did in 4 years of spending. You also don't address the socialism programs both Trump and the GOP have put in place for farmers to fix the problem Trump created in the first place. We've given more to farmers thru socialism redistribution just in 2019 than Obama did bailing out the automakers, and yet I don't remember any Republican's currently against the forms of socialism that the GOP has and is right now employing to continue to buy midwestern votes. Man, it sounds like there are a lot of things you just aren't aware of...and I think that's a common American problem, a lack of REAL knowledge of what's going on. And a lack of spine when it comes to calling out socialism in its many forms when it comes from the political side of the aisle you prefer. Once you break that tendency towards pure partisanship, you'll see just how much you've been led to believe things that are ridiculously untrue.
     
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  4. watisthis

    watisthis Well-Known Member

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    Remember when Rev. Billy Graham came out against Nixon during his impeachment? It was basically the beginning of the end for his republican support. We may not hold the same values, but we can certainly come together and call a spade a spade.

    Christianity today, the evangelical magazine founded by the late Rev. Billy Graham has called for President Trumps removal.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/reli...urce=reddit.com#click=https://t.co/NOx2da2amC

    That article is quite scathing of Trump

    Edit: Exerts from the article:
    “The president of the United States attempted to use his political power to coerce a foreign leader to harass and discredit one of the president’s political opponents,” he wrote. “That is not only a violation of the Constitution; more importantly, it is profoundly immoral.”

    “To the many evangelicals who continue to support Mr. Trump in spite of his blackened moral record, we might say this: Remember who you are and whom you serve,” Galli wrote. “Consider how your justification of Mr. Trump influences your witness to your Lord and Savior.”

    Trump lashed out at the magazine in a pair of early-morning tweets Friday, calling Christianity Today a “far left magazine ... which has been doing poorly.”
     
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    1MEAN18

    1MEAN18 Well-Known Member

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    Here ya go. Just facts man. Just facts. What you do with them is up to you. But the time to learn new things and change your mind, and be a better person is always at hand, that also is your choice though, and nobody else's. PS Pew Research, the people in this link I share, are very conservative so there's no way you can honestly say these polls are mathematically skewed, or politically skewed, because they aren't. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/07/17/9-charts-on-how-the-world-sees-trump/
     
  6. watisthis

    watisthis Well-Known Member

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    Well I must admit, Billy Grahams son has said he doesn't agree with what the Christianity times wrote and that he still support President Trump.

    I however, don't understand how he can not label President Trump in the same light his father labeled Nixon and Clinton. Like I've said before, I value integrity and moral char very highly.

    “Unfortunately, the words that we applied to Mr. Clinton 20 years ago apply almost perfectly to our current president,” Galli wrote in the new editorial. He specifically raised the issue of abortion, the reason that many evangelicals have said they voted for Trump and would do so again.

    “Can we say with a straight face that abortion is a great evil that cannot be tolerated and, with the same straight face, say that the bent and broken character of our nation’s leader doesn’t really matter in the end?”
     
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    1MEAN18

    1MEAN18 Well-Known Member

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    A little truth about me. Abortion is the reason why I stopped supporting Dem's in the late 90's, that and a president who went on tv and lied to me, really that was the straw that broke my camels back. All the years up to '16 I voted for R's for 2 reasons that I then thought were valid reasons. Now, the R's have shown me just how wrong I really was to support them. I thought R's were fiscally more in control, R's DID balance the budget for 4 straight years during Clinton and Clinton did find ways to work with them too, even during his impeachment! Second, I've come to the conclusion abortion is between a person and THEIR GOD, or THEIR CONSCIENCE. Although I find it immoral, I still do not have the right to judge anyone, that judgement is far, far, far above my paygrade. With that said, its why I am now asking Christians was selling your soul to this immoral man worth it? Has he really done anything to improve your life that any other R would have not done? I think not. Any R would have given us more conservative judges and stopped onerous regulations. Probably any R would have also rammed thru tax cuts that ballooned our deficit beyond anything the Dem's ever did too...but taxes and what's fair is another topic, and a topic that is far harder to actually discuss because most people in America aren't armed with facts, but are very armed with opinions (a lot of which don't actually jive with any known economic facts I might add).
     
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  8. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

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    I don't care what the world says about Trump. It would be really idiotic for a US president to set what other countries think as a high priority or let opinions set his policy.

    Priorities are the American people and following through on his campaign promises.

    Trump is doing great!
     
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    1MEAN18

    1MEAN18 Well-Known Member

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    if you don't care...then why did you bring it up? I think you care, but you don't wanna acknowledge how far off real facts your earlier statement actually was. If that's the case, don't feel bad...most people don't seek information that goes outside of their BELIEFS anyways, so you are average that way. Hell my friend, don't let facts get in the way of your beliefs! LOL
     
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  10. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

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    Your two long, single paragraph, rambling posts were full of statements about how this and that country/nationality doesn't like Trump. Are you drinking this morning already? If so, more power to you.
     
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    1MEAN18

    1MEAN18 Well-Known Member

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    typical Trump supporter. wants to debate until facts need to be talked about, then because you don't have any facts just beliefs on your side, you wanna throw mud at an honest messenger. sorry dude, your technique is pretty juvenile, the sad thing is, you were taught to be this way, yet you fail to see it doesn't work because you have a belief that facts don't matter unless you are the one presenting them.
     
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    1MEAN18

    1MEAN18 Well-Known Member

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    Talking to a Trumper feels this way. Ignorance is gladly not a contagious disease or America would have been wiped out already. external-content.duckduckgo.com.png
     
  13. Blue Moon

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    Reading headlines doesn't tell much about what Christians really practice and preach. Every church I've ever belonged to has practiced giving food and clothing to the needy, and preaching the good news of God's love for mankind, even when we're at our most unloveable. If you want to learn what Christians really practice and preach, find a small church and get to know the people there.
     
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    1MEAN18

    1MEAN18 Well-Known Member

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    How do you know I don't already do that? See, you really don't. But assumptions come natural to most people I guess. You don't need to believe a certain way to behave a certain way, and my volunteer activities aren't something I generally talk about in public outside my community for obvious reasons. But I do not call myself a Christian, maybe that fact is why you made your comment? Which by the way, was a very good comment and very much the truth. I'm sorry if I overgeneralized to make my point but I already get told I am too windy as it is, so I figured less detail (especially personal) about my beliefs and what makes me tick isn't and wasn't necessary to make my point.
     
  15. watisthis

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    As for feign policy, President Trump's isolationism sends a clear message to our alleys that everyone is on their own and no ally is off limits. Our allies have always had false hope that we would be there for them in their time of need or in trade deals, and global disputes. Trump has shown us a president can easily back out of a treaty signed by a former president. Our multilateral institutions and laws have served as the bedrock for the worlds rules based order which has been the standard for the state of relative peace we've enjoyed since 1945 and even more so since 1991. However, this is waning significantly thanks to President Trump withdarwing from a position of world leadership.

    Even with its faults TTP would have countered Chinese aggressive foreign policy. Chinese power is at an all time high with no end in sight. Given their expanse of 'belt and road' initiative China is economically colonizing Africa the same way we did to China in the 1970s all while China maintains its status as a 'developing nation' to secure favorable trade deals.

    Russia, on the other hand, has reaffirmed itself to its neighboring states as well as its expanse and influence into the Middle East, South Asia, South America. I.E. Syria, Turkey, Iran, and Venezuela. Making them a global threat. Worse yet, Russia's new economic partnership with China to replace the dollar as the world backed currency, as well as, develop a trans continental highway from China to Western Europe represents A CLEAR FUNDAMENTAL SHIFT IN GEOPOLITICAL ORDER.

    President Trump also fails to comprehend basic concepts like impacts of tariffs on steel and aluminum, or trade deficits in goods vs services. Lets also remember North Korea where he got nothing in writing all he got was hollow promises that are now biting back at him.

    China, Russia and even Saudi Arabia are reaping the rewards on the U.S's incompetence while the rest of the world wonders how anyone so unfit could have been elected President of a geopolitical powerhouse.
     
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