Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

[K4fxd]

I care about their..............

Says every do gooder ever. I'm here to save you from yourself, just give up some comforts or freedoms. We, the elites, know better than you. Blindly follow us and we will lead you to the promised land.

I think this fits;

We've taken care of everything
The words you read
The songs you sing
The pictures that give pleasure to your eyes
It's one for all and all for one
We work together, common sons
Never need to wonder how or why

Look around, this world we've made
Equality, our stock in trade
Come and join the brotherhood of man
Oh, what a nice contended world
Let the banners be unfurled
Hold the Red Star proudly high in hand
We are the Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Our great computers fill the hallowed halls
We are the Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
All the gifts of life are held within our walls
Source: Musixmatch
Songwriters: Geddy Lee / Alex Lifeson / Neil Peart

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[sk47]

Please remember the difference between climate and weather.

Climate change is changing the weather, but not uniformly. Global temperature increase means more energy in the atmosphere and so more extreme events such as the last hurricane season. However if as the ice caps melt and dump loads of cold water in the N Atlantic then the Gulf Stream may shut down making NW Europe colder. More energy means more storms, more extremes, this may result in more heatwaves in some places but also wetter cooler weather in others. These drastic changes are what brings the most disruption.

I can assure you I am not a climate champion (if by that you mean wanting it to happen) but just follow the data

Hello; I get the way you see it. Back in 1999 a heat wave was just hot weather. Now a heat wave is man made global warming. Did I get it right?

You are correct in that I do not actually think you want the world to become too hot. I do however think you are a true believer in the man made warming idea and are more than willing to wager our future on that idea.
The climate may be warming as the numbers appear to indicate and we may have to deal with the consequences. I can even concede we humans have played a part, likely small to moderate is my guess. But even the sources you favor say we will have to face the bad news for decades before even a glimmer of change can start to happen.

I do not conceded we have to ruin a working way to use energy resources that functions well. I do not want to hand over my future to an untested green energy dream on what amounts to a wager. A bet that we can re-do decades of infrastructure in just a few years. Part of that bet is as yet unproven ways to recycle batteries will be invented. That the scrounging of the earth for rare minerals will be less of an environmental disaster than it now appears to be.
Even one of the twins is not yet ready to give up his GT for the cause. He plans to wait until the idea of owning an EV makes sense to him. Interesting in that when I made the same statement early on in this thread I was called selfish.

 

[Burkey]

Six Problems With Electric Cars That Nobody Talks About - autoevolution

Hello; This will be a link to what I will call "living with an EV".

One bit which stood out to me was that one of the rare materials needed to make an EV is lithium. One of the main places it is mined is Australia.

Wouldn’t that contradict the “follow the money” idea though?
It‘s no secret that the current Aussie government aren’t doing a whole heap to tackle the issue. It’s not quite outright denial of the issue, they know that shit won’t work over here. The public is too well educated to put up with a government playing that game.
Instead, they’re playing the game of “yes, we know it’s a problem, we’ll deal with it later”.

Do you know what else Australia has an abundance of?
Coal. Good quality coal.
So, if we were to “follow the money” in Australia, we would quickly find that we have a government that is hell bent on selling as much coal as possible, whilst appeasing the public with their lip service toward the planet.

 

[Burkey]

Not in the US where all deaths in 2020 (except in nursing homes) were from Covid.

So I guess other nations must also be a hoax right? Like, all the nations came together to have a chat about how to trick the public into subservience, so that the people in power can…..do what exactly? Make you wear a mask?
Stay at home?
So they can destroy your economy and risk losing the next election, along with the position of power they held?
Seems legit.

 

[Gregs24]

Says every do gooder ever. I'm here to save you from yourself, just give up some comforts or freedoms.

I have and I will

 

[sk47]

U.S. Senate Panel Wants to Raise EV Tax Credit as High as $12,500 (msn.com)

Hello; This is a "follow the money" link. I had figured the difference would be clear, but should not have been surprised at the confusion. If I find a link about using an EV I will call it a "living with an EV" link. Sorry to have confused anyone.

I may search for links about other specific aspects of the general topic, so be warned.

 

[K4fxd]

I have and I will

I'll believe you are serious when you crush your Mustang and your Lotus.

If Co2 is such a poison what are you going to do about your exhaling?

I can see it now, ACME corporation's face mask with Co2 trap. Save your fellow man from Covid and save the planet from Co2.

In honor of this thread I poured some leaded race gas in my lawn mower and mowed the lawn. That gas smells wonderful.

 

[Dr. Norts]

I'll believe you are serious when you crush your Mustang and your Lotus.

If Co2 is such a poison what are you going to do about your exhaling?

I can see it now, ACME corporation's face mask with Co2 trap. Save your fellow man from Covid and save the planet from Co2.

In honor of this thread I poured some leaded race gas in my lawn mower and mowed the lawn. That gas smells wonderful.

VP C12 all day. It does smell wonderful.

 

[K4fxd]

I'm dead serious, after having ethanol ruin 2 carbs I went to turbo blue. It is cheaper than the cans of gas at the hardware and we don't have any pure gas pumps within 100 miles of me.

 

[Burkey]

U.S. Senate Panel Wants to Raise EV Tax Credit as High as $12,500 (msn.com)

Hello; This is a "follow the money" link. I had figured the difference would be clear, but should not have been surprised at the confusion. If I find a link about using an EV I will call it a "living with an EV" link. Sorry to have confused anyone.

I may search for links about other specific aspects of the general topic, so be warned.

Can you explain this one to those of us who aren’t across taxation in the US?
If I’m understanding this correctly, the buyer gets a $2,500 tax credit (for example) which would mean that they don’t pay tax on the $2500 they earned. Is this correct?
If so, that would mean that the level of “benefit” would be directly proportional to the tax bracket this person resides in yes? Eg. The more you earn, the more incentive it provides.
If I’m doing it wrong, please explain it better.
If my understanding of it is correct, I’m really not sure how I feel about it. I see pros and cons, put it that way.

As a resident of a country that once had four car manufacturers at a given time and now has none, I could offer some insight into how Australia got it wrong.

 

[Gregs24]

Then and now: Pandemic clears the air - BBC News

If ever there was an experiment to demonstrate how ICE cars pollute our cities there couldn't be a better one than this!

We can have clean cities

 

[sk47]

The Dirty Secret of ‘Clean’ Energy (msn.com)

Hello; Not sure how to label this one. Some money involved in the sense of forced labor and labor camps.

Quotes from link "to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions by at least 50 percent by 2030 from 2005 levels. An estimate shows that to reach this ambitious goal, at least half of the U.S. power supply would have to come from clean energy such as solar and wind."

"The Sheffield Hallam University report, titled “In Broad Daylight: Uyghur Forced Labor and Global Solar Supply Chains,” shows how China’s booming solar industry has been tainted by the forced labor of Uyghurs and other minorities in Xinjiang."

"Local authorities in Xinjiang were instructed to place “trainees” — Uyghurs and other minorities who were forcefully put into the internment camps — in various jobs after they completed their terms in the camps, regardless of their wishes or desires. Some “trainees” would be sent to work at factories near the camps. Researchers identified at least 135 such “reeducation” camps co-located with or close to factories. Other less fortunate “trainees” were transferred to factories across the country, far from their homes and loved ones."

There is a bit about how Japan is avoiding having to use solar equipment made in China near the end of the article.

Edit - I did fail to mention the bit about how a lot of coal is burned in the solar panel chain of events.
Quote from link - "Besides the use of forced labor, Chinese suppliers to solar companies are known for their inefficient production process. For example, according to the report, solar company Hoshine’s Xinjiang facility pays workers to crush silicon by hand at a rate of $6.50 per ton. In addition, the process of turning silicon into polysilicon demands a significant amount of electricity. In Xinjiang, electricity is mostly generated by coal, an industry that the Chinese government heavily subsidizes. The availability of cheap coal is one of the main reasons Xinjiang has become China’s most important solar hub. Not surprisingly, Chinese solar suppliers in Xinjiang have produced high carbon emissions because of their dependency on coal."

 

[sk47]

Then and now: Pandemic clears the air - BBC News

If ever there was an experiment to demonstrate how ICE cars pollute our cities there couldn't be a better one than this!

We can have clean cities

Hello; A couple of ideas here. One is all the pollution likely is not only from ICE vehicles. The image is from a large city in India. During "normal- non pandemic" times there may be other sources of air pollution.

There are ICE vehicles which run much cleaner than others. A two stroke motorcycle is not as clean as a four stroke. I bought a four stroke weedeater for that reason. I do not know the mix of two stroke motorcycles or old poorly maintained four stroke ICE vehicles.
An ICE can be made to run cleaner. This is why the old air cooled engines have phased out in order to have them liquid cooled. Tighter tolerances when liquid cooled.
The jury is still out as to if the use of EV's and solar can be truly clean overall.

I will assume we can agree there are a lot of poor in India and that the country is overpopulated. During the lockdowns people did stop regular activity. Problem is the world cannot stay in lockdowns from now on. Economies and livelihoods have been damaged and people absolutely have to get back to the business of living and making a living. Yes the lockdowns gave a glimpse of how things might be if people went away in a sense. However the people are still around and when they come out of the hidey-holes they will be forced by necessity to resume activities.

I am seeing shortages in some products due to the lockdowns. I have had more than a few conversations with merchants who cannot get product. There are threads on this site about shortages of vehicles in fact. So yes as things get back to some level of normal there will be the normal side effects of activity. As seen in my most recent link China will be burning lots of coal to generate electricity for the solar panel industry for one thing.

I will harken back to when I was a population champion. A time when the human population was roughly about half of what it is currently. We had lots of air pollution back then for one thing and the concern was if the population continued to increase at exponential rates the pollution and other environmental issues would get worse. A fact is the pollution is not as bad as it would have been because of some tech used on smoke stacks and vehicles. Never the less there is overall still lots of pollution because there are extra billions of people who all need to use energy.
The member who posted information about energy using graphs. Has the right idea. We have so many people alive because we have access to abundant energy and have been using that energy.

Your "we can have clean cities" comment reflects a short period when the normal activities of billions were taken off line. The idea having an all electric world is just not going to happen by 2050 and for sure not by 2030-35. Farmers have machinery that will last than long and will not be paid off any time soon.

 

[Gregs24]

Hello; A couple of ideas here. One is all the pollution likely is not only from ICE vehicles. The image is from a large city in India. During "normal- non pandemic" times there may be other sources of air pollution.

Indeed, not all pollutants do come from ICE cars - but the pandemic gave a great opportunity to see what can happen with significant changes.

There are figures for UK cities all showing a decline in PM2.5. Yes, people stayed at home so heating at home increased (much of which is by gas in the UK so not responsible for the PM2.5) but if you are going to challenge that it was not due to reduced ICE use (which is proven to produce PM10, PM2.5 and NOx) then you are going to need to come up with evidence to back up your statement.

Incidentally the jury is not still out on whether EV's are cleaner than ICE cars. As long as you don't use coal or oil to produce the electricity then there will be no PM2.5 or NOx issues in cities. That is EXACTLY why cities in the UK and Europe are introducing clean air zones where ICE vehicles are banned. The results are measurable.

This isn't unique to us - it is happening in the US too.

Progress Cleaning the Air and Improving People's Health | Overview of the Clean Air Act and Air Pollution | US EPA

Benefits and Costs of the Clean Air Act 1990-2020, the Second Prospective Study | Overview of the Clean Air Act and Air Pollution | US EPA

Full article: Low emission zones reduce PM10 mass concentrations and diesel soot in German cities (tandfonline.com)

Regarding ICE's being made to run cleaner - The Euro 7 standard in Europe is the next step in that process but the complex catalysts required (3 or 4 different ones on each vehicle) add significant cost and complexity. ICE cars will be more expensive than EV's on a like for like basis because of these measures and that will quickly drive change.

Upcoming Euro 7 Emission Regulations to Drive Europe’s Zero-Emission Mobility Goal (aecc.eu)

 

[K4fxd]

If I’m understanding this correctly, the buyer gets a $2,500 tax credit

It is a credit. If you owe 1,000 in tax you apply the credit and the Gov pays you 1500

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