Camaro giant leaps, Mustang just enough (SS vs. GT)

[millhouse]

I agree. But many here are saying the only reason the 1le beats the pp1 is because of the tires. I also believe the PP2 will be very close to the 1le, but believe the 1le will still be faster. Weight will be one reason, and imho, the chassis is still a little better for track.:cheers:

You apparently didn't read anything I wrote. The 1LE not only has a much more track ready tire compound, but the FRONT TIRES ON THE 1LE ARE WIDER THAN THE REAR TIRES ON THE PP1.

How does that strike you as glaringly obvious as to the intent of each vehicle?

And for the record, we have been saying all along that the PP2 will come not only with the better and wider wheels and tires, but will have a different tuned suspension to go along with it.

“It’s highlighted by a lower stance, a redesigned front splitter and rear spoiler, and 305/30/R19 Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires wrapped around split-fitment aluminum wheels – 19x10.5-inch front and 19x11-inch rear.

The tires, 1.5 inches wider than those found with Performance Pack Level 1, provide a firmer grip, and work with a retuned chassis to put the car more than a half-inch closer to the ground. The package is available exclusively with a manual transmission.

Custom tuned MagneRide® dampers and quicker steering calibration provide better response. Other improvements over Performance Pack Level 1 equipment include a 67 percent stiffer rear stabilizer bar, a 12 percent stiffer front stabilizer bar, 20 percent stiffer front springs and rear springs that are 13 percent stiffer, all of which contribute to a more stable ride around corners with less body roll.”

Again, it's not just tires.

You can read about other changes here..
http://performance.ford.com/enthusiasts/media-room/2017/10/mustang-gt-performance-pack-2.html

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[02gtnh]

You apparently didn't read anything I wrote. The 1LE not only has a much more track ready tire compound, but the FRONT TIRES ON THE 1LE ARE WIDER THAN THE REAR TIRES ON THE PP1.

How does that strike you as glaringly obvious as to the intent of each vehicle?

And for the record, we have been saying all along that the PP2 will come not only with the better and wider wheels and tires, but will have a different tuned suspension to go along with it.

“It’s highlighted by a lower stance, a redesigned front splitter and rear spoiler, and 305/30/R19 Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires wrapped around split-fitment aluminum wheels – 19x10.5-inch front and 19x11-inch rear.

The tires, 1.5 inches wider than those found with Performance Pack Level 1, provide a firmer grip, and work with a retuned chassis to put the car more than a half-inch closer to the ground. The package is available exclusively with a manual transmission.

Custom tuned MagneRide® dampers and quicker steering calibration provide better response. Other improvements over Performance Pack Level 1 equipment include a 67 percent stiffer rear stabilizer bar, a 12 percent stiffer front stabilizer bar, 20 percent stiffer front springs and rear springs that are 13 percent stiffer, all of which contribute to a more stable ride around corners with less body roll.”

Again, it's not just tires.

You can read about other changes here..
http://performance.ford.com/enthusiasts/media-room/2017/10/mustang-gt-performance-pack-2.html

Well it sure looks like again from what I just read, your giving the win to the 1le over the pp1 based off the tires.:shrug: Yes the PP2 will be set up much better for track then the pp1, but will cost much more, be heavier and imho will still be a little slower then the 1le. And if the only reason why the 1le beats the pp1 is the tires, then all Ford needed to do is add the Cup2, so why did they need to do all the rest?:shrug:

 

[millhouse]

Well it sure looks like again from what I just read, your giving the win to the 1le over the pp1 based off the tires.:shrug: Yes the PP2 will be set up much better for track then the pp1, but will cost much more, be heavier and imho will still be a little slower then the 1le. And if the only reason why the 1le beats the pp1 is the tires, then all Ford needed to do is add the Cup2, so why did they need to do all the rest?:shrug:

Holy shit, you really do lack reading comprehension.

Wow!

 

[02gtnh]

Holy shit, you really do lack reading comprehension.

Wow!

That the best you got, name calling.:headbonk:

Then tell me why a regular SS is faster then the pp1? Oh wait, the tires.

 

[millhouse]

That the best you got, name calling.:headbonk:

Then tell me why a regular SS is faster then the pp1? Oh wait, the tires.

Show me where a regular SS is faster than the new PP1? Oh wait, you can't. :lol:

Show me where I said the only difference between the 1LE and PP2 is tires?

Again, GTFO....you truly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[4V Mayhem]

That the best you got, name calling.:headbonk:

Then tell me why a regular SS is faster then the pp1? Oh wait, the tires.

Well to be fair they said it could be spring rates, sway bar rates, shock valving, hub stiffness, steering feedback programming, brake design, caster/camber and toe settings, subframe bushing stiffness...basically, everything EXCEPT for chassis stiffness. LOL!! I guess you would have to give credit to Chevy for making a vehicle with the same chassis stiffness as the GTPP yet can convincingly outcorner the Mustang by a large degree.

 

[4V Mayhem]

Show me where a regular SS is faster than the new PP1? Oh wait, you can't. :lol:

Show me where I said the only difference between the 1LE and PP2 is tires?

Again, GTFO....you truly have no idea what you're talking about.

Well we have feedback from RP...take it as you will. We'll have to wait for the H2H to see what happens. But if the 1LE is as superior as RP makes it out to be, then the standard SS should be on par with the GTPP. I think the whole point was for the PP2 to be the equal to the 1LE and the PP1 to be equal to the standard SS anyway. We'll see soon enough.

 

[millhouse]

Well we have feedback from RP...take it as you will. We'll have to wait for the H2H to see what happens. But if the 1LE is as superior as RP makes it out to be, then the standard SS should be on par with the GTPP. I think the whole point was for the PP2 to be the equal to the 1LE and the PP1 to be equal to the standard SS anyway. We'll see soon enough.

Yeah, Feedback on the PP1….but not in comparison to the SS. I don’t think anyone can confirm that the regular SS is on par with the GTPP….as we don’t have any information on that.

Really, I don’t know how you all are even coming up with these conclusions with absolutely no data to be had on any of this. Seriously though, I’d love to hear your logic.

 

[4V Mayhem]

Yeah, Feedback on the PP1….but not in comparison to the SS. I don’t think anyone can confirm that the regular SS is on par with the GTPP….as we don’t have any information on that.

Really, I don’t know how you all are even coming up with these conclusions with absolutely no data to be had on any of this. Seriously though, I’d love to hear your logic.

Dude, seriously, calm down. This is all just talk with some speculation (on both sides) thrown in. I didn't say the standard SS would definitely beat the PP1. I said that if the 1LE is beating it by such a large margin according to RP, then the standard SS would probably be on par with it. Unless you just think that the 1LE is THAT far ahead of the standard SS. We'll have to see what happens.

 

[WildHorse]

Then something is wrong with his car. There will always be cases where someone in a slower car can beat someone else in a faster car. But those cases are far from the norm and usually involve other variables. A lot of people here have beaten other people in the 6th Gen SS. But I think everyone here will agree and tell you that the 6th Gen SS IS a faster car. That is regardless of which car they prefer.

Again there's nothing wrong with his car. Any car can beat any car anytime. All I did was out launch and out shift him. Simple as that.

 

[millhouse]

Dude, seriously, calm down. This is all just talk with some speculation (on both sides) thrown in. I didn't say the standard SS would definitely beat the PP1. I said that if the 1LE is beating it by such a large margin according to RP, then the standard SS would probably be on par with it. Unless you just think that the 1LE is THAT far ahead of the standard SS. We'll have to see what happens.

LOL, calm as a cucumber…this is fun. And yes, there seems to be an assload of speculation going around. You’ll notice no-where have I speculated that any car is faster than the other…only that the inferences floating around on here are mind-blowingly absurd.

Back to your response…so you are saying there is no room to be had between the 1LE and SS when it comes to track performance?

This is curious, as by all accounts the 1LE is quite a bit better around the track than the standard SS.

 

[4V Mayhem]

LOL, calm as a cucumber…this is fun. And yes, there seems to be an assload of speculation going around. You’ll notice no-where have I speculated that any car is faster than the other…only that the inferences floating around on here are mind-blowingly absurd.

Back to your response…so you are saying there is no room to be had between the 1LE and SS when it comes to track performance?

This is curious, as by all accounts the 1LE is quite a bit better around the track than the standard SS.

Well there is always going to be speculation. That is what these sub-forums are for. If any evidence to the contrary is presented then that would disprove the speculation. As of now we don't have much evidence so people are going by what we know of both cars to be true. Nobody is saying that any of this stuff is Gospel.

It is my estimation from what I have seen and read that on the 15-17s the standard SS was on par with the GTPP and the SS 1LE was better than both. So I surmised that when RP said it wasn't even close now, that the 1LE is still ahead of the GTPP1 and the SS would still be on par with it. The PP2 would have to likewise be significantly better than the PP1 and standard SS to match the 1LE. It comes down to IF Ford tries to beat the 1LE, match the 1LE, or if they're satisfied with just getting in the ballpark range.

 

[millhouse]

Well there is always going to be speculation. That is what these sub-forums are for. If any evidence to the contrary is presented then that would disprove the speculation. As of now we don't have much evidence so people are going by what we know of both cars to be true. Nobody is saying that any of this stuff is Gospel.

It is my estimation from what I have seen and read that on the 15-17s the standard SS was on par with the GTPP and the SS 1LE was better than both. So I surmised that when RP said it wasn't even close now, that the 1LE is still ahead of the GTPP1 and the SS would still be on par with it. The PP2 would have to likewise be significantly better than the PP1 and standard SS to match the 1LE. It comes down to IF Ford tries to beat the 1LE, match the 1LE, or if they're satisfied with just getting in the ballpark range.

Speculation I’m good with…as it’s based off of information. Guessing on the other hand…not so much.

Honestly, from the way it sounded…Ford wasn’t even trying to match the 1LE with the PP2, it was the group of engineers that wanted to put out a more track worthy car. By all accounts, Ford was totally cool with the PP1 being its only offering….and having inferior performance to the 1LE. And it’s my opinion that because of this…the PP2 was likely given a shoestring budget, which is why they left out the transmission and diff coolers.

Keep in mind, the SS wasn’t that far ahead of the previous model year performance pack. That previous performance pack was quite a bit down on power and torque compared to the new mustang….and didn’t have the new go fast magnetic suspension and PS4 tires.

I’m curious, does anyone have any data on exactly how far ahead the 1LE is of the SS on the track (and please don’t use road and tracks stupid VIR data)?

 

[WildHorse]

Take a base 17 GT.. Dump less then $10k into it and now you have a killer track car. Or just upgrade the stock 235 18 inchers to 275/305's and feel the difference. Personally I think Ford is bang on with "build it however you want" and gave the customer an excellent platform in which to do just that.

 

[thehunterooo]

Take a base 17 GT.. Dump less then $10k into it and now you have a killer track car. Or just upgrade the stock 235 18 inchers to 275/305's and feel the difference. Personally I think Ford is bang on with "build it however you want" and gave the customer an excellent platform in which to do just that.

You can't win magazine races like that! Stock performance is all that matters!

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