CA Emissions Standards to be revoked

[ctandc72]

Um. No. It's not. Smog levels in places like Los Angeles and San Jose are MUCH better today because of those 60s, 70s, and 80s, pollution control devices on cars. Are the devices better today? Duh. Does that mean earlier devices were worthless? Hardly.

The point blew right by you. From the mid 70's until the late 90's, the auto industry's progression for emissions controls made a ridiculously large jump in regards to efficiency. In fact a lot of the progression in these jumps were in fact due to making engines run more efficiently via highly regulate EFI systems and faster ECU and feedbacks systems. Why did auto manufacturers stop using AIR / Thermactor systems in the late 90's for the most part? FYI these systems used an engine driven pump to push air into the exhaust / catalytic converter to increase the converter's efficiency and help the lifespan of the converter. Modern converters don't need this air injection anymore - in large part because of the efficiency of modern closed loop EFI systems.

The point? There isn't much left in regards to increasing efficiency when it comes to IC engines in mass-produced, affordable vehicles. Diminishing returns.

Because we have more cars on the road? California has almost as many registered vehicles (15M) as the next two highest States (Texas and Florida, 8M each) combined.

Again - did you read my post?
Wildfires are a very large contributor to smog / air quality levels in CA.
The warm climate in CA also contributes as well as the terrain of the state itself.
Industrial pollution is a big factor in CA. I guess car emissions are responsible for over half of CA's bodies of fresh water not meeting EPA Clean water standards in 2011?

Are you telling me that you believe industrial pollution in CA is not a factor?

With respect to places like Los Angeles and San Jose, entirely wrong. The improvement in air quality since the 50s, 60s, and 70s, is largely attributed by many authorities to the invention of the catalytic converter.

Again - where did I state the introduction of the catalytic converter didn't play a large part in the initial large improvement in air quality in many densely populated CA cities?

Look, sorry if Californians buy more cars than any other state, and auto manufactures are too cheap to make models for other markets. California does what California thinks is right for California. Your problem is really with the auto makers, and YOUR state. If you think California emission standards are too strict, get YOUR state to pass a law that says only federal emission standard cars can be imported and sold there.

See that's the thing. California got a WAIVER to enforce stricter emissions controls 40+ years ago - because the smog and air pollution in CA was so bad. And California officials in many respects just assume they can legislate and do what they want, regardless of Federal laws and standards. The waiver was yanked.

CA's smog system is absolutely ridiculous. CARB Certification is worse than "Microsoft approved" back just a few years ago.

Please tell me how the "Smog exempt" laws work in CA?

But seriously, I don't care what CA does. But apparently a lot of Californians (well former Californians) do - since they've been fleeing the state for years. The point is that CA is pushing ridiculous goals that essentially end up doing more damage in the long run than anything.

If you believe for a second that the main motivator in California's "leading the way" in regards to "Green" living - see recycling - is anything other than profit - you're missing the forest for the trees. Trucking trash and refuse out of state - paying companies to take it - doesn't magically make all that crap go away.

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[2018OFPP1?2]

Wildfires are a very large contributor to smog / air quality levels in CA.

Go educated yourself on, amongst other things you espouse, what causes the type of smog (photochemical) that affects California. Wildfires have nothing to do with it.

And again, if you don't like your state adopting California law, that's a problem between you and your state. California can only enforce laws in California. Your state enforces your laws.

I guess you'll be happy to know that Trump is also rolling back regulations on coal and methane burning power production, so along with increased automotive pollution, you can look forward to additional industrial pollution.

On the bright side, maybe I'll finally be able to run those long tube headers. Environment be damned.

 

[ctandc72]

Go educated yourself on, amongst other things you espouse, what causes the type of smog (photochemical) that affects California. Wildfires have nothing to do with it.

And again, if you don't like your state adopting California law, that's a problem between you and your state. California can only enforce laws in California. Your state enforces your laws.

I guess you'll be happy to know that Trump is also rolling back regulations on coal and methane burning power production, so along with increased automotive pollution, you can look forward to additional industrial pollution.

On the bright side, maybe I'll finally be able to run those long tube headers. Environment be damned.

Really? If you believe that - since you want to throw shade on me - why not take it up with YOUR state government? You know, since several different commissions from CALIFORNIA have been trying to change forest management practices in your state - and every time they talk about it they list AIR POLLUTION and the DIRECT HEALTH hazards that come from it.

Jeez - again - I don't GIVE A SHIT about CA except when it does things that affect the entire country.. Why can't you just discuss the subject instead of flipping over to Trump and start insinuating that I'm somehow against protecting the environment?

 

[ctandc72]

It's an automotive topic thread.
WE GET IT - YOU DO NOT LIKE TRUMP. So post in the politics thread and STOP doing it in an AUTOMOTIVE Thread.

 

[Bikeman315]

It's an automotive topic thread.
WE GET IT - YOU DO NOT LIKE TRUMP. So post in the politics thread and STOP doing it in an AUTOMOTIVE Thread.

You are 100% correct. My apologies. Post deleted.

 

[Weather Man]

Cally will fight losing CARB, they will lose. Pretty much a clear cut commerce clause violation. If the supremes ruled for Cally, all 50 states could set whatever emissions requirements they wanted to.

Used to sell snowmobiles, EPA determined that snowmobiles contribute no significant air pollution and what they do contribute happens where no one cares about it. BUT, since everyone internal combustion engine is being regulated, we're gonna stick emissions controls on sleds. You can now add $2-$4,000 onto the price of sleds for emissions.

 

[Coolmanfoo]

Really? If you believe that - since you want to throw shade on me - why not take it up with YOUR state government? You know, since several different commissions from CALIFORNIA have been trying to change forest management practices in your state - and every time they talk about it they list AIR POLLUTION and the DIRECT HEALTH hazards that come from it.

Jeez - again - I don't GIVE A SHIT about CA except when it does things that affect the entire country.. Why can't you just discuss the subject instead of flipping over to Trump and start insinuating that I'm somehow against protecting the environment?

Lolol this guy is so mad. He's clearly one of those "California sucks" guys without ever reading or researching the state. Oh and fox news doesn't count for research!

I liked the comment about people fleeing the state lmao. Our economy is the 4th largest in the world. We are a power House. Over 10% of the countries entire population is here. Just because your new neighbor is from California doesn't mean we are all jumping ship. But hey enjoy your close minded propaganda its obviously good for you.

Peace and empowerment.

 

[ctandc72]

Lolol this guy is so mad. He's clearly one of those "California sucks" guys without ever reading or researching the state. Oh and fox news doesn't count for research!

I liked the comment about people fleeing the state lmao. Our economy is the 4th largest in the world. We are a power House. Over 10% of the countries entire population is here. Just because your new neighbor is from California doesn't mean we are all jumping ship. But hey enjoy your close minded propaganda its obviously good for you.

Peace and empowerment.

Again - can't speak facts or discuss the subject, so you make personal attacks. Got it. This is an actual automotive thread by the way. Go to the politics side if you want to try to sound superior. Did you even read the subject of the thread?

 

[Coolmanfoo]

Again - can't speak facts or discuss the subject, so you make personal attacks. Got it. This is an actual automotive thread by the way. Go to the politics side if you want to try to sound superior. Did you even read the subject of the thread?

Well I encourage you to scroll up and read my previous posts I've been quite level minded and open to this discussion.

Then let's go up and look at your posts. Specifically the wildfire comment. That comment is anything but a "fact" . The only people who claim that it's "fact" are the people who believe Trump's propaganda machine.

California's pollution comes mostly from industry, farming and trucking. We produce a lot of stuff out here and producing food or anything else creates pollution.

But you need to understand that factually speaking California has 15 million cars on the road. And a large portion of those cars are going to be centralized in either the bay area (San Francisco) or around LA county. When you have that many vehicles it will create pollution. So Californias idea is if you cut emissions by 10% that's huge because that's 10% x15 million.

So here we are. At the conclusion of the this post. We can't really move any further without getting political and the main reason for that is modern day politics are vicious and designed to tear the people apart to make the guy at the top more powerful. This change will have no effect for the country or the Auto industry. It was done as a political publicity stunt.

Would you like to continue or just admit we will never see eye to eye because you don't live here and you don't really know the "facts"?

 

[Weather Man]

Well I encourage you to scroll up and read my previous posts I've been quite level minded and open to this discussion.

Then let's go up and look at your posts. Specifically the wildfire comment. That comment is anything but a "fact" . The only people who claim that it's "fact" are the people who believe Trump's propaganda machine.

California's pollution comes mostly from industry, farming and trucking. We produce a lot of stuff out here and producing food or anything else creates pollution.

But you need to understand that factually speaking California has 15 million cars on the road. And a large portion of those cars are going to be centralized in either the bay area (San Francisco) or around LA county. When you have that many vehicles it will create pollution. So Californias idea is if you cut emissions by 10% that's huge because that's 10% x15 million.

So here we are. At the conclusion of the this post. We can't really move any further without getting political and the main reason for that is modern day politics are vicious and designed to tear the people apart to make the guy at the top more powerful. This change will have no effect for the country or the Auto industry. It was done as a political publicity stunt.

Would you like to continue or just admit we will never see eye to eye because you don't live here and you don't really know the "facts"?

CA D's have weaponized CARB against the rest of the country. They will rightfully lose their exemption. Emission controls have been pushed so far they are now fighting for a smidgen of nothing and costing consumers plenty for unneeded complexity. Lithium batteries are their own environmental nightmare and life cycle wise are no improvement. Ironically, many in MN figured out that plugging in their electric car at -20F only kept the batteries warm, no recharge.

When they figure out Hydrogen fuel cells, maybe they will have an argument for destroying the hydrocarbon infrastructure currently in place.

 

[Coolmanfoo]

CA D's have weaponized CARB against the rest of the country. They will rightfully lose their exemption. Emission controls have been pushed so far they are now fighting for a smidgen of nothing and costing consumers plenty for unneeded complexity. Lithium batteries are their own environmental nightmare and life cycle wise are no improvement. Ironically, many in MN figured out that plugging in their electric car at -20F only kept the batteries warm, no recharge.

When they figure out Hydrogen fuel cells, maybe they will have an argument for destroying the hydrocarbon infrastructure currently in place.

Let's just pretend I agree with everything you've said. Do you think removing the waiver will have an effect on anyone? Think about the length of the legal battle and changing of presidents/lawmakers.

 

[ctandc72]

Well I encourage you to scroll up and read my previous posts I've been quite level minded and open to this discussion.

Then let's go up and look at your posts. Specifically the wildfire comment. That comment is anything but a "fact" . The only people who claim that it's "fact" are the people who believe Trump's propaganda machine.

California's pollution comes mostly from industry, farming and trucking. We produce a lot of stuff out here and producing food or anything else creates pollution.

But you need to understand that factually speaking California has 15 million cars on the road. And a large portion of those cars are going to be centralized in either the bay area (San Francisco) or around LA county. When you have that many vehicles it will create pollution. So Californias idea is if you cut emissions by 10% that's huge because that's 10% x15 million.

So here we are. At the conclusion of the this post. We can't really move any further without getting political and the main reason for that is modern day politics are vicious and designed to tear the people apart to make the guy at the top more powerful. This change will have no effect for the country or the Auto industry. It was done as a political publicity stunt.

Would you like to continue or just admit we will never see eye to eye because you don't live here and you don't really know the "facts"?

I posted a link, to a CALIFORNIA STATE GOVERNMENT commission regarding the wildfire problem in CA.

That's Trump "propaganda"?

That problem has been an issue for more than a DECADE. Trump's fault too?

You didn't even bother to click on that link I posted. And you got the cajones to use the word "Propaganda" aimed at me?

Yeah - sure thing.

 

[Coolmanfoo]

I posted a link, to a CALIFORNIA STATE GOVERNMENT commission regarding the wildfire problem in CA.

That's Trump "propaganda"?

That problem has been an issue for more than a DECADE. Trump's fault too?

You didn't even bother to click on that link I posted. And you got the cajones to use the word "Propaganda" aimed at me?

Yeah - sure thing.

Where does it say that the wildfires are a cause of year round smog?

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[Weather Man]

Let's just pretend I agree with everything you've said. Do you think removing the waiver will have an effect on anyone? Think about the length of the legal battle and changing of presidents/lawmakers.

I think it will get resolved in Trump's favor early in his 2nd term.

 

[2018OFPP1?2]

Where does it say that the wildfires are a cause of year round smog?

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The part that really cracks me up is, these guys think California can legislate and enforce regulations in THEIR state. News flash, California got an exemption to enforce stricter laws in, wait for it,... CALIFORNIA!

if your state adopted California regulations, and you don't like it, TAKE IT UP WITH YOUR STATE LEGISLATORS! California has nothing to do with the laws and regulations in any state other than, wait for it,... CALIFORNIA!

BTW, I'm all for Trump trying to stimulate the economy by getting the auto manufactures to produce cheaper cars, but not at the expense of my clean air. The revocation of the waiver is nothing more than a chicken shit end run around the fact that the auto manufactures will only produce California compliant cars because it's more cost effective for them. Oh, and also partly because he's in a dick swinging match with the California government.

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