Boss manifold going on

[kris5597]

You are assuming the 2011-2014 coyote intake. The 2015 intake has been revised. It flows more air than the earlier intakes. Bama did tuning with the Boss and ran it at the track. The 2014 GT intake worked better. If you can show the intake improved performance that would be great. I just don't think the gains will be there. Not peak hp to peak hp. We know torque will be less. The only advantage would be the extra RPM the Boss seemed to add on the 2011-14 coyote. But is slightly more rpm going to help the car more than the better average of HP/TQ across the whole engine RPM?




I am interested to see what the stock 2015 GT intake does against the CJ set up. I have a feeling gains will be minimal. With extra RPM being the main advantage.


Which reminds me to ask, is there threads with members Dyno numbers as well as lists for 1/8 & 1/4 mile drag racing? I don't think I have come across either one. Heck, I have not seen many threads showing before and after tunes on the 2015 GT.

Your speaking as if Bama actually installed and tuned the intake manifold properly against the stock manifold. Everyone is basing the boss manifold testing off of companies that have installed and have NOT properly tuned the engine for them. I have already been doing tune testing with the stock manifold that has been showing that other tuners on this forum aren't utilizing valve overlap properly, which doesn't surprise me... Seems most of the tuners on this forum are learning the 11-15 Mustang based on knowledge from engines that do not use VCT. VCT is a magnificent system that is not complicated in its use and function. However, it can be bad when not utilized properly.

Regardless if the 2015 Mustang intake manifold has been revised and better than the 11-14, it has long runners which are designed for low to midrange power. When swapping a manifold like going from the stock to the Boss, VCT should change drastically because VE is changing as well. You alter VCT based on VE. The new cams, valves, and heads on the 2015 are all more aggressive than the 11-14 setup, the specs are pointing towards top end power. To achieve that, we need short runner intake manifolds. And the biggest thing, is a PROPER TUNE. I can't express this enough. Valve overlap can go a long way when utilized.

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[86merc]

I don't know who you are referring to as tuners on this forum that are not tuning Boss and CJ intakes properly. But I can say that several of them have done quite well with them. I guess there are some who just slap on an intake and just use a SCT canned tune. But I doubt that is the norm. I know Lund, AED, Mike Roush, Rev Auto and others have a lot of experience, dyno time and track testing on the Boss and CJ Intakes.

I completely understand cam design, VCT and so on. I understand how a tune can take advantage of the hardware and get the most out of the engine. Or hold it back. Heck the FRPP tune yields 60 ft/lbs. of torque over the stock tune on a 2011-14. So I am sure the tune can really wake up a stock motor or help when optimized for a Boss or Cobra Jet intake. You even said the new engines seem to have better specs all around. I am not sure why people think the intake manifold is going to be a swap that gets rid of a horrible flowing stock intake. Do you know how long the stock 2015 intake runner length is versus the 2011-14 or Boss intake? Have you seen the cross section of the 2011-14 intake versus the new one? Do you know what those ports flow versus one another?

Even if the Boss intake gains are there above 6800 rpm, which I believe there will be, I don't know if the gains above are worth the trade offs below the curve. The CJ seemed to make more torque and more hp across the board compared to the CJ. I would think if someone really wanted more power the CJ would be the one they would try. But I understand the draw to the cheaper Boss intake.

I am all for testing and seeing results. But I don't think the Boss intake is going to be a slam dunk, make way more power, worth the cost, swap. But please prove me wrong. I will even admit I was wrong. I am not that proud. lol Then do a CJ swap. Because I still have my CJ set up that I wouldn't mind having on my 2015.

 

[09jsw]

Guys this was just done. Rev auto did the cj to a bolt on auto. Made 437whp. They said expect around 10-25hp on a manual with full boltons. Not including cams in that. I made 440 on their dyno with intake headers and their tune. That's not too shabby given the heat of today and when I was tuned. On a cooler day mine would have been 450 like a friend of mine was. It sucks we don't have a before other then when the auto car was stock. It made like 360

 

[86merc]

Guys this was just done. Rev auto did the cj to a bolt on auto. Made 437whp. They said expect around 10-25hp on a manual with full boltons. Not including cams in that. I made 440 on their dyno with intake headers and their tune. That's not too shabby given the heat of today and when I was tuned. On a cooler day mine would have been 450 like a friend of mine was. It sucks we don't have a before other then when the auto car was stock. It made like 360

That is about what you would see on a 2011-14 car. They posted this on their FB page about 6 hours ago.

So the results are in! 2015 GT auto: Stock vs. Cobra Jet Intake, GT500 TB, Rev Auto prototype 5" CAI, Stainless Works 1-7/8" headers, and Custom Rev Auto 93 octane calibration. Both runs are in 3rd gear and are SAE corrected.

It looks to have a dual blade throttle body on it. I wonder how it would do with the CJ mono blade throttle body?

 

[09jsw]

Yea I wish it was mono as well.

 

[09jsw]

That is about what you would see on a 2011-14 car. They posted this on their FB page about 6 hours ago.

It looks to have a dual blade throttle body on it. I wonder how it would do with the CJ mono blade throttle body?

I'm pretty sure this is what a manual 14 would make not an auto?y friend made this with his mt82 14. This being an auto I expect a loss to a degree. I would think 460-470 sae on pump on a manual car.

 

[kris5597]

I don't know who you are referring to as tuners on this forum that are not tuning Boss and CJ intakes properly. But I can say that several of them have done quite well with them. I guess there are some who just slap on an intake and just use a SCT canned tune. But I doubt that is the norm. I know Lund, AED, Mike Roush, Rev Auto and others have a lot of experience, dyno time and track testing on the Boss and CJ Intakes.

I completely understand cam design, VCT and so on. I understand how a tune can take advantage of the hardware and get the most out of the engine. Or hold it back. Heck the FRPP tune yields 60 ft/lbs. of torque over the stock tune on a 2011-14. So I am sure the tune can really wake up a stock motor or help when optimized for a Boss or Cobra Jet intake. You even said the new engines seem to have better specs all around. I am not sure why people think the intake manifold is going to be a swap that gets rid of a horrible flowing stock intake. Do you know how long the stock 2015 intake runner length is versus the 2011-14 or Boss intake? Have you seen the cross section of the 2011-14 intake versus the new one? Do you know what those ports flow versus one another?

Even if the Boss intake gains are there above 6800 rpm, which I believe there will be, I don't know if the gains above are worth the trade offs below the curve. The CJ seemed to make more torque and more hp across the board compared to the CJ. I would think if someone really wanted more power the CJ would be the one they would try. But I understand the draw to the cheaper Boss intake.

I am all for testing and seeing results. But I don't think the Boss intake is going to be a slam dunk, make way more power, worth the cost, swap. But please prove me wrong. I will even admit I was wrong. I am not that proud. lol Then do a CJ swap. Because I still have my CJ set up that I wouldn't mind having on my 2015.

I guarantee the stock manifold, boss manifold, and CJ manifold flow more air than the heads can even keep up with stock, which is definitely a good thing. What I am more concerned with is resonance and how runner length and flow angle affect the shift in VE, and that's correct, I said shift. Which means that massive amount of torque the 2015 makes in the midrange, which flatten out and shift the top end power.

I will not call out tuners on the forum, that is not my place, I don't mean to bash on anyone or even argue in regards to this. I am just trying to validate these swaps as well as state the importance of a proper tune. Ignition and fuel do make power, but VCT is just as important. Hell, even adding an intake requires VCT tuning to maximize power.

I would love to install a CJ on my car, currently it is not in the hand I was dealt, but the boss manifold is coming first for sure. The OP and I are here to prove that the boss could be a potential swap that people could resort to if the CJ is out of their pocket book range.

Thank you for this discussion, it definitely helps spread the knowledge.

KRis

 

[86merc]

I'm pretty sure this is what a manual 14 would make not an auto?y friend made this with his mt82 14. This being an auto I expect a loss to a degree. I would think 460-470 sae on pump on a manual car.

I have seen anything from 430 to 470 on a chassis dyno with a M6, cat deletes and so on. Dynos are going to be slightly different. Even with the same car in the same air. It is a tuning tool. To measure gains or losses after a change.

With lock up converters the loss isn't as heavy as they used to be. But an auto still has more rotating mass to it. So it should read lower. But again, dyno numbers shouldn't be taken as an absolute. Like I always say..."I have yet to see a dyno pull up next to me at a stop light." What the car runs is more important to me. :cheers:

 

[DivineStrike]

Looks like you can get to 500 whp with a cj mani, headers, cai, tune and port and polish...probably more with cams. On a manual

Just sucks it's so expensive with the cj and ya gotta lower the engine

For the sake of expense i hope members and other tuners prove bama to be wrong about the boss. I'd like to see a full bolt on boss dyno to compare to the cj

 

[86merc]

Looks like you can get to 500 whp with a cj mani, headers, cai, tune and port and polish...probably more with cams. On a manual

Just sucks it's so expensive with the cj and ya gotta lower the engine

I bet you could get close to 500 rwhp a with CJ intake set up, headers, cams, E85 and tune. Pretty sure I have seen 480 to 500 with similar combos 2011-14.

 

[DivineStrike]

It's looking like with the cj you can get there without e85 on the manual. More with cams and port and polish

 

[86merc]

Switching to E85 is much easier than swapping heads. Since a lot of areas have it available it is a more popular upgrade then swapping to ported heads. Plus cost is a consideration if you are paying someone to port the heads and/or someone to swap them.

 

[Blk2015GT]

That is about what you would see on a 2011-14 car. They posted this on their FB page about 6 hours ago.

It looks to have a dual blade throttle body on it. I wonder how it would do with the CJ mono blade throttle body?

Problem is this shows nothing. Bone stock to completely modded with half a dozen mods shows nothing about the CJ.

ONLY changing to the CJ and adjusting the tune is what we really care to see. What does the CJ alone do for the car.


But if they say 10 to maybe 20hp from the CJ alone that's a tough call for the cost. You're talking $1700 with the CJ, throttle body and CAI for it. That's a LOT of money for only 10 to MAYBE 20hp. Could be 11 or 12.

Unless you're racing where the 6500-8000 RPM range is appealing, I personally would put the $2k towards FI or another mod; that gets you almost 1/2 way there if you get it during one of Lethal, Beef, etc's sales.

 

[DivineStrike]

Switching to E85 is much easier than swapping heads. Since a lot of areas have it available it is a more popular upgrade then swapping to ported heads. Plus cost is a consideration if you are paying someone to port the heads and/or someone to swap them.

And cams are probably more expensive than port and polishing at least if ya do the removal and install yourself

 

[Khell86]

On the Rev Auto run, it says it was done in third. Isn't that deflating the results a bit?

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