BMW M3 Convert - 2017 GT w/PP

[EricSMG]

What up!

Just picked up a '17 Lightning Blue/Black GT w/PP. Only other option is reverse sensors. Took me a while to find this color in a nearly option-less configuration.

Very cool car. Stunning in person - very exotic looking. I come from many BMW M3s - E36 and E46 versions, so I'm used to very refined sporting cars with incredible balance and so the bar was set high. So far, I'm pretty impressed with this new Stang. The chassis, in particular, is very rigid which is mandatory for a good road car. Cornering balance is also quite good - the car leans over 'squarely' with good front grip. Engine is great although I'm still breaking it in. Low end is soft BUT I love that it has a European feel with power steadily gaining as the tach climbs as apposed to the Chevy-esque blunt force trauma.

Overall, very cool car and I'm 'excited' again. That said, there are a few small nitpicks:

1. Why did they put P-Zeros on this car? Car should have PSS'.
2. The shock valving isn't that great, particularly the rear - very choppy ride, a bit like a stock E46 M3, actually.
3. Does Bilstein not offer any shocks for these cars? Wtf?
4. There seems to be quite a bit of throttle delay - part throttle is great but if you slam it open there's a good 1/2 second or so before you get full power. Are you guys tuning this out?
5. Ride height could be a pinch lower, but I'm talking 1/2" max. No one seems to offer a spring like this, no?

So really, you solve these things and we've got a legitimately all around great street 'sports' car.

Discuss.

Eric

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[jasonstang]

1. Cost and MPG
2. Yes
3. They are working on it
4. Have you tried sport mode? Normal mode progressively applies power.
5. I think 1 inch lower is at least to make it look good.

 

[BmacIL]

The only springs that are truly minimum lowering (10 mm) are the '16 Base GT350 springs. They're up in rate from the GT PP springs, so a better damper is needed (Koni Yellow, Steeda Pro Action, Bilstein when they come out, or even the FRPP Track Handling dampers). Another close one is BMR Minimum Drop Front (SP089 7/8" lowering) and BMR Performance Rear (SP082 0.5" lowering).

The dampers are probably one of the single best upgrades for the car.

 

[EricSMG]

1. Cost and MPG
2. Yes
3. They are working on it
4. Have you tried sport mode? Normal mode progressively applies power.
5. I think 1 inch lower is at least to make it look good.

3. Good to know.
4. Not much - just got it Saturday night. Will do.
5. Perhaps but not for me - I like a very subtle drop so that it looks athletic but not lowered.

The only springs that are truly minimum lowering (10 mm) are the '16 Base GT350 springs. They're up in rate from the GT PP springs, so a better damper is needed (Koni Yellow, Steeda Pro Action, Bilstein when they come out, or even the FRPP Track Handling dampers). Another close one is BMR Minimum Drop Front (SP089 7/8" lowering) and BMR Performance Rear (SP082 0.5" lowering).

The dampers are probably one of the single best upgrades for the car.

Excellent input on the spring details! The BMRs might do the trick.

But YES - dampers are always the best/biggest improvement to your typical factory car. No one seems to get it right. I've run about 10 sets of Konis in my life - they work but they're not great. I saw the Pro Actions, sound cool. Love Billies - glad they're working on it.

I had a set custom valved for my 46M (which I still own) by a pro and they're like nothing else - refined ride quality with excellent chassis control. Very spendy but the ultimate.

 

[jasonstang]

5. Perhaps but not for me - I like a very subtle drop so that it looks athletic but not lowered.

With less than an inch drop you are only level with stock Sti's and BRZ's. Hardly aesthetic. The S550 sits like a sedan from the factory.

 

[foghat]

Sport (or track) mode is a must. Throttle and steering feel absolutely numb in normal mode.

 

[offroadkarter]

With less than an inch drop you are only level with stock Sti's and BRZ's. Hardly aesthetic. The S550 sits like a sedan from the factory.

Are you forgetting how high a new edge or S197 sat stock?

The S550 could certainly sit a tad lower, but its not an exaggerated height like the prior generations were. Not all of us are trying to win the stance off at vapecon 2017 going up against the subaru and toyobaru owners.

 

[WarrENDeatH]

What I'm going after, a GT with PP. I think I can do without the amenities for the driving experience.

 

[1024GT]

I really like my GT Premium because it's loaded with goodies. The latest model has a European look which I like. I too have owned 6 BMW's including an e36 and late e46m. The ride is totally different and the ford feels large and floaty even with springs but it's a nice vehicle. I don't miss my e46 tooooo much and bimmers that I like cost too much new and I would never own another one out of warranty. (Had a troubled X5) Especially an M (but there nice and quicker) but the engine tone of that new 6 cylinder turbo (my opinion) sounds like garbage.

 

[Chad11491]

I agree with the PSS's. After dealing with the Pirellis these completely transform the car for the better. The ride is better, the mpg is better (really, i'm getting like 1.5mpg better), the grip in the wet is better than the pirellis gripped in the dry. I'm completely happy.

Also, the BMR performance springs all around sit very nice and are supposed to pair well with the stock shocks I believe. I personally have the Steeda Ultralite Linears and they ride very well. A little better than stock. Firm, but comfortable. And the stance is great! I don't scrape over anything but the most extreme of situations, where you would stock anyway.

 

[Martman GT]

4. Have you tried sport mode? Normal mode progressively applies power.

He doesn't have the driving modes, it's not a premium. At least he didn't list it as being a premium.

 

[ForTehNguyen]

Welcome to the board

Stock shocks are not that good on this car, even the PP. I went with Koni adjustables and completely transformed the ride quality and handling. BMR SP089/SP082 springs are minimal drop, around 3/4". This is what I have with my Konis

Stock PZeros are indeed meh and a square tire setup definately helps the understeer this car has.

Another thing to consider is the manual shifter is very lackluster, definately look into the MGW shifter for this car. IMO the best mod to this car. Also look into strengthening the rear end more with BMR CB005 rear cradle lockout and differential bushing inserts which stabilizes the wheel hop the rear IRS has. The rear IRS strengthening mods are very inexpensive.

The main weak points I consider on this car: the shocks, shifter, and floppy rear IRS. Get these upgraded and the car will be on a whole new level. All easily fixed inexpensively. Another recommendation is to remove the clutch assist spring on the clutch pedal to greatly increase the clutch feel accuracy. 99% of the people here remove it. Can go further and put a quality transmission fluid in to get rid of some of the notchiness.

SP089 Min Drop Fronts (.8") / SP082 Performance Rear (.5") with 19x10" with 275/40/19 PSS square

 

[EricSMG]

With less than an inch drop you are only level with stock Sti's and BRZ's. Hardly aesthetic. The S550 sits like a sedan from the factory.

I'm not concerned with other cars. I'm different than most guys in that I do not like the "lowered" look at all. I want the car to look 'right' and it's damn near perfect, stock. I think a 1/2" would be perfect but I'd keep it stock before I dropped it an inch.

Plus, I've been modifying cars' suspensions for 24 years and I've learned that, in almost all cases, dropping a car without making up the lost travel by other methods results in a compromise for general street use. In other words, most cars work 'best' at or near stock ride height.

Sport (or track) mode is a must. Throttle and steering feel absolutely numb in normal mode.

Well, steering is separate in the non-Premium car. It's its own button. So I've got that set to Sport at all times. Feels good.

I did try track mode (sport) today and yes, the throttle mapping is better without being twitch or artificial but the instant-WOT delay is still there. WOT is WOT so throttle mapping is moot.

Are you forgetting how high a new edge or S197 sat stock?

The S550 could certainly sit a tad lower, but its not an exaggerated height like the prior generations were. Not all of us are trying to win the stance off at vapecon 2017 going up against the subaru and toyobaru owners.

Agreed. I'm 40 years old and am strictly anti-stance The BMW scene is full of that stuff.

What I'm going after, a GT with PP. I think I can do without the amenities for the driving experience.

Yep, only way to fly. I despise NAV in a sports car and the base interior has a simpler, no-nonsense 'all business' look to it. The clean buttons on the center stack have a very German look and feel, love it.

I really like my GT Premium because it's loaded with goodies. The latest model has a European look which I like. I too have owned 6 BMW's including an e36 and late e46m. The ride is totally different and the ford feels large and floaty even with springs but it's a nice vehicle. I don't miss my e46 tooooo much and bimmers that I like cost too much new and I would never own another one out of warranty. (Had a troubled X5) Especially an M (but there nice and quicker) but the engine tone of that new 6 cylinder turbo (my opinion) sounds like garbage.

The Performance Pack is not floaty - it's tied down nicely if not a little harsh.

I agree with the PSS's. After dealing with the Pirellis these completely transform the car for the better. The ride is better, the mpg is better (really, i'm getting like 1.5mpg better), the grip in the wet is better than the pirellis gripped in the dry. I'm completely happy.

No question on the PSS'. They're way better in all ways. Plus, they're about the lightest tire you can buy, generally, for any given size.

He doesn't have the driving modes, it's not a premium. At least he didn't list it as being a premium.

It for sure does, seem comments above.

Welcome to the board

Stock shocks are not that good on this car, even the PP. I went with Koni adjustables and completely transformed the ride quality and handling. BMR SP089/SP082 springs are minimal drop, around 3/4". This is what I have with my Konis

Stock PZeros are indeed meh and a square tire setup definately helps the understeer this car has.

Another thing to consider is the manual shifter is very lackluster, definately look into the MGW shifter for this car. IMO the best mod to this car. Also look into strengthening the rear end more with BMR CB005 rear cradle lockout and differential bushing inserts which stabilizes the wheel hop the rear IRS has. The rear IRS strengthening mods are very inexpensive.

The main weak points I consider on this car: the shocks, shifter, and floppy rear IRS. Get these upgraded and the car will be on a whole new level. All easily fixed inexpensively. Another recommendation is to remove the clutch assist spring on the clutch pedal to greatly increase the clutch feel accuracy. 99% of the people here remove it. Can go further and put a quality transmission fluid in to get rid of some of the notchiness.

Awesome post!

Good input on the Konis. I will likely throw a set in with the stock PP springs as I like to 'step' my way through mods.

I happen to love the shifter but points noted.

Yep, positively locating the IRS has been my focus of study as of late. I can actually feel it move just a pinch and can tell it's going to bother me. The Steeda braces seem like a good solution as do their (and BMR's) bushings inserts. The diff also seems to flop around in its bushings so the street inserts seem like a meaningful solution.

The E46 M3 has an extremely responsive drivetrain. The differential is virtually solid-mounted with very slim slivers of rubber in the mounts. This gives the sensation that the rear wheels are directly connected to your throttle foot. The Mustang lacks this and I'm pretty certain its the soft-ish diff bushings.

Here's what the car needs to be DAMN good:

1. Better shocks
2. IRS braces
3. Firmer diff bushings
4. PSS tires

And that's a compliment, really, as most cars need WAY more than that

 

[BmacIL]

A couple points to consider:
1. I've had my car for 32,000 miles, and it most definitely has settled some (i.e. it's probably 1/4" to 3/8" lower than it was brand new).

2. Agreed with everyone on shocks/struts and adding IRS control (BMR CB005 or the Steeda package), however, diff bushings will absolutely increase NVH in the cabin via diff whine. For most, it's more than they can handle if they drive it regularly. Even Kelly from BMR advises against the diff bushings if this is driven regularly on the street. They do help with wheel hop, but the IRS lockout kit gets you 80-90% of the way there with no NVH impact reported by anyone who's installed it.

 

[Chad11491]

I have the CB005 kit from BMR and it made a huge difference in the feeling of "solidness" and locking down the rear end. If you're going to do springs and struts i'd do these at the same time since it adds virtually no time to the other installs to put the CB005 kit on at the same time.

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