Billy Johnson Service Announcement, PS4S

[Stuntman]

I think you guys are pulling up a regular MPSS and not the GT350 MPSS.

Actually rim width range front is 10-11.5 and rear 10-12. The tread width you stated is correct but on an R spec wheel will measure 10.2 and 10.9" accounting for the wider rim.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Super+Sport&frontTire=935YR9PSS&rearTire=035YR9PSS&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=Ford&autoYear=2016&autoModel=Shelby%20GT350%20Mustang&autoModClar=

So we're confident the OEM 295 is the 10" tread width tire? How will the 305 rear go from a 10.7" tread width to a 10.9" tread width when mounted on R wheels?

Did he really recommend OEM GT350 tires on R wheels? Have you read this? (seems outside his own stated range):

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArtic...LY-select-and-size-TIRES-for-PERFORMANCE.aspx

“For ideal handling: when sizing a tire for a given wheel, I usually target a tire’s TREAD width to be as wide as the WHEEL width, or 0.5” narrower than the wheel width.”

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[bellwilliam]

if track guys follow Tirerack "recommended wheel width", 1/2 of us won't have a wheel to run.

I race a Miata - 205 Hoosier runs on 9" wide wheels. 295 for 11" is plenty wide.

yes, Hoosier runs a little wide. but still....

 

[Stuntman]

if track guys follow Tirerack "recommended wheel width", 1/2 of us won't have a wheel to run.

I race a Miata - 205 Hoosier runs on 9" wide wheels. 295 for 11" is plenty wide.

yes, Hoosier runs a little wide. but still....

That's a really wide wheel. What class? A 50 sidewall has a lot more room to stretch than a 30-35.

 

[Zitrosounds]

So we're confident the OEM 295 is the 10" tread width tire? How will the 305 rear go from a 10.7" tread width to a 10.9" tread width when mounted on R wheels?

Did he really recommend OEM GT350 tires on R wheels? Have you read this? (seems outside his own stated range):

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArtic...LY-select-and-size-TIRES-for-PERFORMANCE.aspx

“For ideal handling: when sizing a tire for a given wheel, I usually target a tire’s TREAD width to be as wide as the WHEEL width, or 0.5” narrower than the wheel width.”

OK. I think we are all getting mixed up with terms. It is the section width that gains size with a wider rim. I used the wrong numbers. See link.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=200

“For ideal handling: when sizing a tire for a given wheel, I usually target a tire’s TREAD width to be as wide as the WHEEL width, or 0.5” narrower than the wheel width.” His quote is inline with what he told me. He "usually" targets a tires tread to wheel ratio and could go smaller. He also said and I am paraphrasing, that the Ford GT350 OEM tire is a faster tire than the same size PS4S. Billy told me I was good to go. Our conversation was specifically in regards to the R wheel. I think the performance of the tire, in this case, is far more important than matching tire and tread width.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

So we're confident the OEM 295 is the 10" tread width tire? How will the 305 rear go from a 10.7" tread width to a 10.9" tread width when mounted on R wheels?

Did he really recommend OEM GT350 tires on R wheels? Have you read this? (seems outside his own stated range):

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArtic...LY-select-and-size-TIRES-for-PERFORMANCE.aspx

“For ideal handling: when sizing a tire for a given wheel, I usually target a tire’s TREAD width to be as wide as the WHEEL width, or 0.5” narrower than the wheel width.”

I didn't recommend OEM GT350 spec MPSS on R wheels. I merely wanted to point out the specific differences in sizing between the OEM MPSS vs the regular MPSS vs the OEM R Cup 2's.

I agree with the Billy point of view for ultimate steering feel and precision. I actually bought regular MPSS in a 325/30 square setup, purely based on an insanely good price I found.

When these wear out, I'll go back to a 305/315 setup. If 315's aren't available, I'll run 325's in the rear again. Personally for me the small loss in ride height running a 295 vs 305 is more noteworthy than any difference in steering feel that I will never exploit during street use as there are no tracks here.

 

[Stuntman]

I didn't recommend OEM GT350 spec MPSS on R wheels. I merely wanted to point out the specific differences in sizing between the OEM MPSS vs the regular MPSS vs the OEM R Cup 2's.

I agree with the Billy point of view for ultimate steering feel and precision. I actually bought regular MPSS in a 325/30 square setup, purely based on an insanely good price I found.

When these wear out, I'll go back to a 305/315 setup. If 315's aren't available, I'll run 325's in the rear again. Personally for me the small loss in ride height running a 295 vs 305 is more noteworthy than any difference in steering feel that I will never exploit during street use as there are no tracks here.

If the 325 square tire on staggered wheels fit and were based on a financial decision, and if you're not tracking it, then by all means... But I'm still skeptical that the 0.2" front ride height you gained made any significant improvement in streetability vs what you lost in terms of performance.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

@J Maher AMG shared a great deal check out this thread,
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87025


The above thread got me thinking. I had previously purchased a set of OEM MPSS. So I asked Billy, OEM MPSS vs the new PS4S and his answer was once again real specific. Long story short, the OEM MPSS is a bespoke tire made specifically for the GT350 with the PS4S having better wet grip but not surpassing the OEM MPSS in dry grip. SO! I am mounting the MPSS and will continue to do so. The MPSS have a very wide rim range and will fit the R spec wheels very well. The OEM MPSS on an R wheel or R spec wheel will have a front 12.1 tread width and rear 12.5 vs the 11.9/12.3" on the GT350 wheel.


http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/member.php?u=24324

That's very interesting concerning his notes comparing the OEM MPSS vs MP4S in the same sizes. So his opinion is that the OEM tire would still outperform the normal MP4S even though they have an inch or more narrower contact patch?

It's too bad that they didn't focus the OEM MPSS to be as capable as can be, as the narrower width is surely done to improve wet driving and daily driven characteristics, with the better compound/construction trying to make up for that width. I wish they had made them a more square fitment to really maximize performance!

I think I may have misread some of the comments in my thread linked above as well. Hard to read context sometimes, I meant no disrespect. Cheers brother :cheers:

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

If the 325 square tire on staggered wheels fit and were based on a financial decision, and if you're not tracking it, then by all means... But I'm still skeptical that the 0.2" front ride height you gained made any significant improvement in streetability vs what you lost in terms of performance.

I got them for roughly $1000 less than if I had bought MP4S in a 305/325 setup, so it was hard to argue with those savings considering it's purely street driven. Not really into autocross and no tracks here sadly.

I might have lost some in steering feel and accuracy I have no doubt, but I don't believe I lost much in terms of performance compared to the OEM non-R MPSS or even a 305/325 MP4S.

Considering the OEM GT350 tires have a 10.0" and 10.7" tread width, I don't think the bespoke compound is making up for the 325's that have a 12.1" tread width, even though they may very well feel better with less sidewall flex/slop in the front.

EDIT: to me the 0.2" increase in height is only a bonus, of course cost is the biggest benefit. It is only temporary for me, and since I knew it fit with no issues, I figured I would "deal" with it for the course of a few summers to save pretty substantially in the short term.

 

[Zitrosounds]

I got them for roughly $1000 less than if I had bought MP4S in a 305/325 setup, so it was hard to argue with those savings considering it's purely street driven. Not really into autocross and no tracks here sadly.

I might have lost some in steering feel and accuracy I have no doubt, but I don't believe I lost much in terms of performance compared to the OEM non-R MPSS or even a 305/325 MP4S.

Considering the OEM GT350 tires have a 10.0" and 10.7" tread width, I don't think the bespoke compound is making up for the 325's that have a 12.1" tread width, even though they may very well feel better with less sidewall flex/slop in the front.

EDIT: to me the 0.2" increase in height is only a bonus, of course cost is the biggest benefit. It is only temporary for me, and since I knew it fit with no issues, I figured I would "deal" with it for the course of a few summers to save pretty substantially in the short term.

I also want to save which is why I asked Billy about the OEM MPSS's which I already own. I bought them at a fraction of the price of new PS4S. And according to Billy Johnson, the OEM MPSS is the better/faster tire in the dry regardless of tread width. I own a set of 350 wheels which the MPSS are mounted on. But! driving the R with them sucked so much from the car that I am selling the wheels and keeping the tires to mount on the R wheels.

 

[BoomBoy]

If OEM MPSS is that good then that article is pointless. Just tell everybody to put OEM MPSS on their R spec wheels. :headbonk:

 

[Zitrosounds]

If OEM MPSS is that good then that article is pointless. Just tell everybody to put OEM MPSS on their R spec wheels. :headbonk:

How is it pointless?:headbonk: Give us your thoughts? There is much more to tires and wheels than just tread or wheel width. Oh and all tires are not created equal. I'd be willing to bet the any bespoke tire is better than the OTS variant.

 

[BoomBoy]

How is it pointless?:headbonk: Give us your thoughts? There is much more to tires and wheels than just tread or wheel width. Oh and all tires are not created equal. I'd be willing to bet the any bespoke tire is better than the OTS variant.

Most people including me was under the impression that PS4S is a better tire than OEM MPSS. Wider is always better, of course. We just want the best tires for our cars. Then you said OEM MPSS is better than PS4S. Why go all the trouble with the PS4S fittings and then tell us OEM MPSS is better anyway? :shrug:

 

[CSL]

The OEM MPSS is really a great all around tire. The track attack cars run these on the track all day long. Great dry grip for a street tire and good in the wet. As far as widths go, many have run these on the 6G R spec wheels for a long time and they work great.

If you have an R and want to run a 30 aspect ratio with good wet capability, the PS4S is your tire.

 

[superman07]

Its not viable for everyone to find the OEM tire at that price, also some of us would prefer wet grip also. MPSS for me on my roads in which heavy vehicles have created a lot of places for standing water are a no no. In cases where tire choice is not simply about limit grip dry, or track versus street I like having as much info as possible. Tramlining on the street was a pain in the ass, how different tires effect this is also good info for us that DD the car. I have also seen early reports that the 4s may wear a little bit better than the MPSS. That is important to me.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

Its not viable for everyone to find the OEM tire at that price, also some of us would prefer wet grip also. MPSS for me on my roads in which heavy vehicles have created a lot of places for standing water are a no no. In cases where tire choice is not simply about limit grip dry, or track versus street I like having as much info as possible. Tramlining on the street was a pain in the ass, how different tires effect this is also good info for us that DD the car. I have also seen early reports that the 4s may wear a little bit better than the MPSS. That is important to me.

Unless you're looking at some seriously mediocre all season tire with massive siping, you won't get a lot of performance oriented tires better than the MPSS in the wet and with 10/32" tread depth when new, that's some serious capability.

Though with the type of rutting you are referring too, the type of tire is going to be largely irrelevant. For that serious rutting and deep standing water, the only thing that can seriously counteract it is weight. Big vehicles will fight the hydroplaning resistance a lot easier.

In terms of tramlining, oddly enough when I switched to an even wider 325 width MPSS up front, I have virtually 0 tramlining now compared to the fighting I had to do with the wheel with the Cup 2's.

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