Anybody Familiar with Ford Buyback Options

[scottmoyer]

I heard that Ford is not doing buybacks any longer and that they offer the lemon law or something called "VLA" (??). I think the VLA stands for something to do with loyalty assistance. I heard that this program allows for up to 10% of the MSRP of your car to be added to the trade in value to help offset a replacement vehicle cost.

So, in my case, the car's MSRP was $44k, the VLA value is $4400 on top of trade in offer, which could potentially be $30k, for a total of $34,400. Is this really all that's offered by Ford today? I was told my only other option was lemon law, which does allow for the buyback, if Ford agrees to it.

If anybody is familiar with the options Ford offers today, please let me know. I opened a case with my dealer yesterday to see what Ford says but I haven't heard back yet.

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[wildcatgoal]

If you have a certifiable lemon, then Ford has to buy it back. Talk to a LAWYER, not the internet.

 

[scottmoyer]

While your advice "may" be good, I'm looking for details on these options. If I get a lawyer to cover the case, who's responsible for their fees? Ford or me? If I am, then your advice might not be good because under lemon law, there is a usage cost for the miles driven. So once you pay the lawyer and the usage fees, you could be out many thousands of dollars.

But regarding my first post, if Ford has other options for their customers, I'm interested in knowing about them and how they work. I didn't ask anyone for legal advice here. I just want to know all of my options so I can make a informed decision.

 

[wildcatgoal]

You are responsible for the lawyer. A consult with a lawyer (30-min) is often free.

At some point you will end up in mediation. You do NOT want to be doing that alone. You will likely lose and be stuck with a car that is doing whatever it is doing.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Been there, done it (successfully). The below is based on ME starting and ending the process directly with Ford, without any Attorney nor did I file anything with the BBB Autoline process. My exact situation and just cause does not apply to others, but the process as outlined remains the same.

First, there is no “trade in value” when doing a Ford Buy Back, it’s not even discussed. A Buy Back is strictly the affected Customer getting a Ford replacement vehicle for MSRP to MSRP.

Read the below carefully, don’t skim over.


Have you established a Case with your Regional Ford CSR, meaning, have you called the Ford 800 number and were set up with an actual Case # yet?

If not - stop dealing with your Dealer and do that first. You must have facts and/or documented reasons as to why you are requesting Ford to Buy Back the vehicle (or Lemoning it). If you have those facts and/or the vehicle has been in the shop multiple times for the same repair, OR has been in the shop inoperative for close to 30 consecutive days, then you proclaim to the CSR you WANT to go through the Buy Back process. The Ford CSR will review your case claim AND any available info they have in their systems regarding the repairs (via Ford Service records and/or OASIS logs). Once the CSR agrees you may qualify for a Buy Back based on your statements AND documented facts, they move you on to another Department.

This is referred to internally at Ford as the “Vehicle Reaquirement” program and is handled by Ford RAV Department. All authorizations and processes relating to the Buy Back are initially handled by this Dept. and the Dealer would normally only get involved when Ford RAV has them sit down with you to pick out another vehicle and/or to turn in your existing one. The Dealer as far as I know cannot promise you, or authorize any Buy Back - because all of the legal forms and authorizations come directly from RAV and the RAV CSR you will be linked to for completing the processes AFTER you have an established Case number.

Ford RAV will send you documents via FedEx which MUST be filled out and FedEx’d back to them before the noted expiration on those documents. If you do not follow through with the deadlines and completion of ANY forms Ford RAV sends to you, it can forfeit your existing claim and you’ll have to go through the process all over again (with the possibility of being denied). It’s all due to legal logistics, so it’s VERY IMPORTANT to respond to all Ford RAV phone calls, emails and adhering to the paperwork process requests.

If you qualify for a BuyBack or Lemon replacement, you have the following options:
1) You can elect to get a replacement Ford (doesn’t have to be another Mustang, but any Ford product). The replacement has to be equal to your MSRP. So if your sticker was $40k, the replacement sticker has to be $40k. If the MSRP on the replacement is higher, you are responsible for the delta in MSRP. Please be aware that depending on State Buy Back laws (which vary in every State), you are also responsible for the following costs that Ford WILL NOT absorb:
A) State taxes on any delta between MSRP’s.
B) DMV Fees (transfer of tags, new tags, etc)
C) Registration/Title fees
D) Doc fees
E) Mileage/use penalty fees (This varies by State and could be or not be applicable)
F) R&R of any aftermarket parts
G) Any major damages to the existing collateral in your possession

2) Refund on your purchase and you walk away and go elsewhere for another Brand-X vehicle. I cannot speak in great detail to a refund, as I did not opt to chose this option. Others who went through this may be able to offer much more details. I do know that with a refund process and based on State Laws, the owner could be docked mileage or usage fees from the point of when the vehicle was first put into the shop for the offending and reoccurring problem. So, if the vehicle had 2k miles on it, then the penalty is on the miles used up to the 2k - NOT the total miles accrued on the vehicle.

I will add that the Buy Back/reacquirement process can be lengthy, it can be frustrating and/or stressful depending on YOUR patience level. The process runs through various levels of authorizations and back and forth internal stuff as well as back and forth between yourself, Ford RAV CSR and the Dealer.

If you chose the Buy Back option, then you go through an Order Process for a replacement Ford:
A) Current year Ford incentives, other discounts, A-X Plans, or any other type of avail. bonuses to discount the MSRP DO NOT APPLY at all. The Buy Back replacement is based strictly on MSRP to MSRP, period.

B) You elect to get an exact replacement to make you whole - meaning, if you want another Mustang with the exact color/option packages OR you elect to get an entirely different Ford.

C) The vehicle has to be new and located on a Ford Dealer lot.

D) You have a 500 mile radius from your Dealer for them to look for a replacement vehicle. If one cannot be located, they can extend that radius to 1k miles or max it to entire US.

E) If you do not want anything other than an exact replacement and there is not a new model available on a Ford Dealer lot to match your exact criteria, then it has to be authorized within Ford IF they will build you a new model year with those specs. BE AWARE that the MSRP rule still applies - if the MSRP on the new build is now $1k higher due to inflation, that’s on your dime. If the vehicle has to be built, also be aware this will lengthen the time period as to when you take delivery and complete the entire process.

F) If there is an outstanding loan on the current vehicle, depending on your Dealer, the Financing Instituion and State Laws, the loan has to be satisfied PRIOR TO being able to take delivery of the new vehicle. This has to be worked out by you, the Dealer and the Finance Institution and has great variables as to HOW that is done, so there is no further info I can post to help with this specific area.

Once you get past the above “Order” process, whether it is finding a replacement on a Ford lot or having to have one built, you then go through a “Worksheet” process. This entails Ford RAV putting together the numbers between old MSRP and the replacement MSRP as well as any deltas (EXCLUDING the fees mentioned up above). This worksheet then gets sent back to you for review - you can refuse the worksheet with explanations as to why and then it goes back to them for further review, etc. Again it’s all part of the process.

Once you agree to the figures on the Worksheet, then it’s sent to the Dealer as well. Once the Dealer gets the worksheet, then they work in all of the other fees (as initially mentioned above). They then present that to you, if you agree with all of the figures then you go through the normal process of how you will pay for it (cash or securing financing).

After agreeing to the figures and you have a Vehicle Invoice, you will go to the Dealer with your existing vehicle, The Dealer will and MUST inspect your entire vehicle. They have specific gauges from Ford RAV they must adhere to and specific forms to complete regarding body/interior damages; if there are damages to that vehicle that are beyond the gauges and allotments they have from Ford RAV, it will be noted and you are responsible for any costs to repair. You also need to inspect the new vehicle, take it for a test drive etc. If there are concerns with the new vehicle, make them known. If everything is ok, then you proceed and will have a ton of forms to complete due to the Buy Back paperwork involved and normal new car process. If the new vehicle is at the Dealer the day you complete the last of the paperwork, you take delivery after the paperwork is complete.

That’s the skinny of it...

Again, the Buy Back and lemon laws are different in every State - so you must be aware of what your State Laws are and also what YOUR RIGHTS are for this type of situation. Some States put a mileage restriction, such as if you don’t take any action before 24k miles, you can’t file for Lemon Law or Buy Back actions. However, there are some loopholes - for instance, if the car was in the shop and the documented mileage as of the last redundant repair was under 24k, but now the accrued mileage is 28k, there might be some leverage...

I can’t stress it enough that you need to establish a Case number via Ford first. Sure you can talk to the Dealer, but if they’re not well versed or trained with regards to the Ford RAV processes, you’re just spinning your wheels and getting totally incorrect information.

You can opt to get a Lemon Law Attorney. Some work pro bono and collect their fees from the Manufacturer if they win and some will require money up front to start the case (and any other additional fees). If you work with an Attorney, just know up front you’re not their only case they are working, so this could delay the process longer as well.

There’s really only 3 options if you wish to get out of the car:
1) Work it yourself by establishing a Case # and dealing with Ford RAV
2) Involve an Attorney
3) Take a larger financial hit, sell the car outright or trade it in and move on

Here’s the Lemon Law thread in the event you have not read through this thread:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59015

 

[scottmoyer]

Thank you Cobra Jet. That's what I was looking for. My dealer service manager stated that Ford changed how they do these things just recently.

In my case, I bought a 2017 Mustang GT Premium California Special for just under $44k. It was stored in their back lot and was filthy, but nobody had test driven it, or randomly climbed in it, scratching the sills or the door. So I picked it, they moved 3 other cars to get it out and took it to detail. I asked that they only wash it. By the time paperwork was done, it was pouring out, so the car was delivered under an over hang, but completely wet. I found out the next morning that all surfaces of the car damage to the paint.

Since I took delivery, Ford said my only option was to go through warranty repair. No buy back or replacement was an option. The original case was opened with Ford at 265 miles! It took them some time to finalize that the entire car would be repainted, so the car went in for repaint at 4300 miles. Seven weeks later, I get the car back. I have spent at least 40 hours removing overspray from the interior, wheels and door jambs, and trying to polish up the finish so that I can't see sanding marks in the clear.

Yesterday, I saw a leaf on my hood when I was going to lunch. I removed it and found a large area of paint that chipped off the hood. The only way to fix this is to repaint again. So I took the car to the dealership and the service manager stated that she will open a new case and see if Ford will buy the car back this time. She tried to get them to do this the last time because it was a new car with 265 miles, but Ford refused. She believes she can get it done this time because of the amount of time it was in the shop and the fact that this is the second time it's in for paint issues.

She mentioned this VLA plan or Vehicle Loyalty Assistance program. Under a buyout, I could potentially lose money based on the way the original contract was written with numbers games being played. The lemon law in Florida does have a mileage use penalty, but what mileage will be used? The original 265, or the current 6500? If it's the latter, I could lose $$ there also. The VLA plan might be my best option financially, but forces me to stay in the Ford family.

Knowing what options I have and how each one will benefit or hurt me financially is what I'm trying to find out.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Thank you Cobra Jet. That's what I was looking for. My dealer service manager stated that Ford changed how they do these things just recently.

In my case, I bought a 2017 Mustang GT Premium California Special for just under $44k. It was stored in their back lot and was filthy, but nobody had test driven it, or randomly climbed in it, scratching the sills or the door. So I picked it, they moved 3 other cars to get it out and took it to detail. I asked that they only wash it. By the time paperwork was done, it was pouring out, so the car was delivered under an over hang, but completely wet. I found out the next morning that all surfaces of the car damage to the paint.

Since I took delivery, Ford said my only option was to go through warranty repair. No buy back or replacement was an option. The original case was opened with Ford at 265 miles! It took them some time to finalize that the entire car would be repainted, so the car went in for repaint at 4300 miles. Seven weeks later, I get the car back. I have spent at least 40 hours removing overspray from the interior, wheels and door jambs, and trying to polish up the finish so that I can't see sanding marks in the clear.

Yesterday, I saw a leaf on my hood when I was going to lunch. I removed it and found a large area of paint that chipped off the hood. The only way to fix this is to repaint again. So I took the car to the dealership and the service manager stated that she will open a new case and see if Ford will buy the car back this time. She tried to get them to do this the last time because it was a new car with 265 miles, but Ford refused. She believes she can get it done this time because of the amount of time it was in the shop and the fact that this is the second time it's in for paint issues.

She mentioned this VLA plan or Vehicle Loyalty Assistance program. Under a buyout, I could potentially lose money based on the way the original contract was written with numbers games being played. The lemon law in Florida does have a mileage use penalty, but what mileage will be used? The original 265, or the current 6500? If it's the latter, I could lose $$ there also. The VLA plan might be my best option financially, but forces me to stay in the Ford family.

Knowing what options I have and how each one will benefit or hurt me financially is what I'm trying to find out.

As far as what Ford “changed recently”, I can tell you this - the Buy Back process as far as I know has remained the same from Nov 2017 to this year. If something changed, it literally would have had to been revised this month. Is this coming from the Ford CSR @ Ford, or from your Dealership?


The mileage penalty used, that *should be* the 265 when the car was initially reported to have had the warranty concern. Not the 4300 for when they finally allowed you to drop it off for repair or the total accrued miles now of 6500. I’m not versed in your State Laws or know what the penalty limitations are for Buy Backs, so what I believe is correct, could be totally incorrect per your State Buy Back or Lemon Law. In NJ, the Lemon Law is outlined very clearly and it states within how the penalties are calculated based on the miles used and what is interpreted as “usage”.

I see you have mentioned that the Dealership Service Mgr is initiating the Case reopening and establishing a new Case number. First, let me ask you this, have you ever talked directly to the Ford CSR who is assigned to your initial Case (and do you have any emails or correspondence between you and that CSR saved)? The CSR meaning the Regional Rep assigned to the Case by Ford - NOT any Ford employee or the Ford Service Mgr of the Dealership. Second, I would not have her open a new Case, I would tell them they need to piggy back it on the original Case number. In my instance, my Case # was the same from the initial warranty complaint, even when it had to be reopened 4x and remained as such up and only until Ford RAV was involved and issued their own revised Case number.

Warranty repair will always be the first option available to the Customer regardless of what the issue is with the vehicle. Ford has to make the repair in order to try and remedy the issue of concern. The owner also needs to accept the repair IF the repair is completed to their satisfaction and the repair has made them whole (ie: no further issues and car operates/looks new). IF the initial warranty repair is not to your satisfaction, deny it and let them work it out again. If the warranty issue WAS repaired to your satisfaction BUT resurfaces again (ie: same part defect OR if painted as in your case, paint issues), Ford must again offer to and try to remedy via Warranty Repair route.

Now I do know that if the Warranty Repair was accomplished 3x and the customer is still not satisfied OR repair is now deemed unfixable by warranty means, then you can request the Buy Back or Lemon action process. The same is true if during the initial repair, the vehicle was held in the shop for 30 consecutive days due to X-reasons.

HOWEVER, with such claims as paint and being that there are obvious issues with the paint after an initial repaint on your vehicle, I would not imagine that you have to go through warranty 3x before being eligible - because 3 repaints or the labor hours necessary would out weigh making the customer whole with proceeding with the Buy Back option.

Also to note:
If you have a Ford CSR involved and have a CSR Case # established, the CSR can have the Regional Ford FSE go to your Dealership and inspect the vehicle and the concerns. The FSE will document what he/she finds and report this back to the CSR with their recommendations on how to proceed. This may help some cases IF the FSE can document or relay the information back in a manner that does back up the customer complaint. Pictures will help, but again, if the pics are not taken in the correct manner, the end result can be interpreted differently than what it actually looks like in person. So, do you know if a Ford FSE has been involved previously?

 

[scottmoyer]

I did reach out to the Ford CSR that was assigned my case. He called me once a week while the car was in getting repainted. I got my car back from the body shop about 6 weeks ago. I called him yesterday and he said the case has been closed. I asked that it be reopened and he said that it's been too long to be able to reopen the case.

For the past six weeks, I've been dealing with the paint issues trying to get it to my standards. I even purchased a new backing plate and polishing pads to try to resolve the surface issues that are present after wetsanding has been done. Unfortunately, when you get a car back that's fully polished up with the polishing oils, etc, you won't see some of the flaws until those oils wear off. I'm finding a lot of areas that need to be addressed and the service manager even saw an area she didn't like and brought it to my attention.

The shop did a nice job painting the car, but it's not a Chip Foose or a Riddler award winning finish. The attention to details just isn't there from a dealer body shop. That's why the service manager tried getting Ford to replace the car the first time. She has rarely seen a full warranty repaint where the customer is 100% satisfied with the finished product compared to a factory finish.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Ok, it’s good you got the Ford CSR involved initially. Keep all of that documentation or correspondence.

You could call the CSR back this week and go above him by asking to speak to his Manager, he has to oblige. You can explain your concerns to that Mgr and do the following:

Make it a point that you are not happy with the warranty repair results at all, you were not made whole initially, that you’re paying money on a new vehicle that was in the shop for a prolonged period of time due to manufacturing defects beyond your control (and even if you accepted another warranty repair, the vehicle would prob have to go in the shop again for extended period of time) and that you want to proceed with a Buy Back.

You have to be stern, but professional, upset but not screaming/cursing - get the point across as to how dissatisfied you are with Ford and the vehicle.

Did you document the initial and additional concerns in pics and/or what remains as concerns? This will help with your case as well. Try to get the pics to show the same defects as you see in person, you may have to work with lightning and angles for it to show up in pics. It can be difficult to show paint defects in pics that are not the obvious.

 

[scottmoyer]

I will call the CSR back on Monday and ask for his manager. I can be stern, but professional. I've learned years ago that screaming and yelling gets you nothing. The service manager did mention that she was surprised that I didn't file for replacement while the car was in for the repaint. Seven weeks definitely qualifies under the terms of lemon law. But, I showed her that I was willing to give it a shot. She saw all of the flaws in the paint when I got it back and again was surprised when I said that I was going to try and fix it myself. She gave me credit for trying to make this work and agrees that the results now are unacceptable for a brand new car. I have the service manager on my side, so let's see what kind of pull she has with Ford.

And yes. I have the original paint defects very well documented in pictures. I also have evidence where I paid $500 to have a detail shop try to wetsand to remove the marks and it didn't work. That's why Ford was willing to do a full repaint. They spent over $8000 on this car which I thought was ridiculous, but that was their choice.

Here's what the car looked like before the repaint:

This was today with dew on the car:

 

[scottmoyer]

Here's more of the before issues:

 

[Brazos609]

What caused the initial paint damage;hard water etching, acid rain, other contaminants?

 

[scottmoyer]

Not sure if it was hard water etching or acid rain, or both. Ford determined that the clear coat failed to protect a brand new car from whatever caused the etchings. It was definitely caused by water sitting, then drying. In Florida, the afternoon rains come in and then the sun comes out and bakes the water spots. If paint isn't protected, it can get damaged quickly down here. Then if the water was sitting there after going through chemical fallout, it'll be worse.

 

[Cobra Jet]

How did you make out - any updates?

 

[scottmoyer]

I just got the offer from Ford last week and their math skills were pretty bad. The worksheet had my vehicle cost, minus rebates, plus all taxes/fees, etc and the calculation came back around $10k short from what my calculator. I worked the numbers with the RAV rep, and she agreed that the numbers were skewed somewhere, so she sent it back to be fixed. They fixed it, but then the payoff was wrong due to the amount of time that lapsed from our first call. The RAV rep sent it back again for corrected payoff numbers and I'm waiting for the final amount. It seems to be going well except for the poor math skills of the first group.

Thanks for checking in though.

And on another note, my son sold his 2014 GT a few weeks back and this past week, we found a 2013 Roush RS3. Two days later, we found out the car also has the Phase 3 kit on it, so we're stoked to have 675hp. The previous owner didn't know what was all done to the car, so he didn't tell us about the phase 3 kit. We found it on our own.

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