400 pound weight loss??

[nametoshowothers]

You have some good points about all the gadgets and gizmos but that is not changing anytime soon. The outcry from going to manual seats, hand-crank windows, non power door locks, non adjustable steering wheels, and no touch-screen DVD/Nav info-tainment systems would be far greater than catering to those who grew up without any of these features and would accept not having them.

People want larger wheels, 50-way adjustable seats, heated seats aren't enough and they now must be cooled as well, electronics and integration to every aspect of life is the direction of the future and these are what drive sales and increase weight. A manual seat that only reclines could easily be 80-100lbs lighter than a 20-way adjustable heated and cooled seat, but then you'll struggle to cater to short and tall drivers and alienate the majority of your target market who wants these features.

However, increased safety standards do greatly affect a cars weight. They specify the height of the hoods, add tons of airbags which cars 15-20 years ago never had, and increase the weight of the car. Heck, a Miata gained 400lbs between its debut and the current "MX5", and these cars don't have a whole lot of features and gadgets.

agreed that safety and gadgets do add weight, but not all do, If I am not mistaken, manual windows are heavier than electric windows. I do not think the weight difference on power versus manual seats is that great.

But do think like porsche, you should have the option of "heavy" comfortable seats with bells and whistles and the bare bones performance seats. It also comes down to money, more expensive materials often can be lighter cost. As well as how many airbags do you really need?

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[Stuntman]

I guess it depends on the car and i'm sure there are some cases where manual windows are heavier, but all of the cars ive worked on, the manual cranks were lighter. Power door locks add weight as well. Manual-power seats are huge in BMWs and they are getting heavier and heavier. You can drop 40lbs per BMW seat when going to an aftermarket bucket and those seats are not cooled -which I imagine have to weigh quite a bit more than a thin heating pad.

I like the idea of sport model (GT3, M3 GTS, BOSS302R) cars having lighter, manual, more performance oriented seats than the heavy comfortable seats -or even making them an option.

 

[nametoshowothers]

I guess it depends on the car and i'm sure there are some cases where manual windows are heavier, but all of the cars ive worked on, the manual cranks were lighter. Power door locks add weight as well. Manual-power seats are huge in BMWs and they are getting heavier and heavier. You can drop 40lbs per BMW seat when going to an aftermarket bucket and those seats are not cooled -which I imagine have to weigh quite a bit more than a thin heating pad.

I like the idea of sport model (GT3, M3 GTS, BOSS302R) cars having lighter, manual, more performance oriented seats than the heavy comfortable seats -or even making them an option.

Agree, I have seen some older mustangs were the crank mechanism is heavier, but by no means conclusive across the board. Problem with oem offerings is that often the manual seats are not lighter, just cheaper, except in the cases you highlighted. Would indeed be good to be able to order barebones light weight performance seats.

 

[Grimace427]

Agree, I have seen some older mustangs were the crank mechanism is heavier, but by no means conclusive across the board. Problem with oem offerings is that often the manual seats are not lighter, just cheaper, except in the cases you highlighted. Would indeed be good to be able to order barebones light weight performance seats.

With seat airbags becoming more common everyday this is getting harder to do, especially at reasonable prices.

 

[nametoshowothers]

Sad but true. How many airbags do we need?

 

[Grimace427]

Sad but true. How many airbags do we need?

How many severe accidents have you been in? My mother fell asleep behind the wheel with me and my sister in the car. We drove head-on into a tree at highway speeds and without a doubt my life was saved by the front passenger airbag('90s Ford Taurus).

 

[scottpe]

^this

I'll take all of the safety features they want to throw into a design. Skimp somewhere else. I will take a little added weight over being dead any day...

 

[SStormtrooPer]

I'll take all of the safety features they want to throw into a design. Skimp somewhere else. I will take a little added weight over being dead any day...

It is interesting that the ever increasing need for more and more life safety equipment and devices is in part(a big part) due to everyones need to turn the automobile into a phone booth, concert hall, and internet cafe.

Without all of that WEIGHT ADDING crap that takes one's attention off the road and other drivers, where it should be, we would not need nearly as much WEIGHT ADDING safety equipment.

Now that's a Catch-22.

 

[Grimace427]

It is interesting that the ever increasing need for more and more life safety equipment and devices is in part(a big part) due to everyones need to turn the automobile into a phone booth, concert hall, and internet cafe.

Without all of that WEIGHT ADDING crap that takes one's attention off the road and other drivers, where it should be, we would not need nearly as much WEIGHT ADDING safety equipment.

Now that's a Catch-22.

While I agree about the increasing driver distractions in vehicles I don't think we need any more reason for increasing occupant safety, than increasing occupant safety. A crash is a crash regardless if it was caused by a distracted driver. If we are being completely accurate, we should thank motorsports for the increases in occupant safety for everyday drivers.

 

[SStormtrooPer]

While I agree about the increasing driver distractions in vehicles I don't think we need any more reason for increasing occupant safety, than increasing occupant safety. A crash is a crash regardless if it was caused by a distracted driver. If we are being completely accurate, we should thank motorsports for the increases in occupant safety for everyday drivers.

I was being facetious -- but regardless, the fact still stands that with less distractions there are less accidents. With less distractions the severity of accidents decreases. You can see where this is going...

I agree occupant safety is occupant safety and there is no way around that. That said, I have seen an airbag seriously mess up a face, i.e., broken nose, jaw, and serious bruising -- all the result of the car impacting a deer at 35 mph. I will never buy into the theory that a car needs 20 airbags because a test performed under perfect conditions says they are the end all to be all, or because our government requires them. There are just too many variables.

Does all that stuff make a difference? Of course it does. How much is the question. And the crumple zones along with the chassis' ability to keep the passenger compartment intact are arguably much more important.

 

[nametoshowothers]

How many severe accidents have you been in? My mother fell asleep behind the wheel with me and my sister in the car. We drove head-on into a tree at highway speeds and without a doubt my life was saved by the front passenger airbag('90s Ford Taurus).

Agreed. Frontal airbags are required. The question still stands how many do you really need to be safe. Do NOT advocate making the cars less safe AT ALL!!!!!!

But they do crash testing and they can measure the benefits of how many airbags make a difference. What I do not like is some marketing claiming tacitly the car is better based on airbag count. There is more to safety than throwing more airbags

 

[nametoshowothers]

^this

I'll take all of the safety features they want to throw into a design. Skimp somewhere else. I will take a little added weight over being dead any day...

Yes but are the so called safety features actually making you safer, or are the just marketing. I will take all that actually work

 

[All-Or-Nothing]

Sheesh.....the GT will be at least 200lbs lighter and the EB4 even more.

 

[Grimace427]

I was being facetious -- but regardless, the fact still stands that with less distractions there are less accidents. With less distractions the severity of accidents decreases. You can see where this is going...

Does all that stuff make a difference? Of course it does. How much is the question. And the crumple zones along with the chassis' ability to keep the passenger compartment intact are arguably much more important.

With the ever increasing population putting more drivers on the road, that would offset any hypothetical reduction in accidents from a decrease in driver distraction. And I definitely agree in the importance of structural integrity and it's relationship with occupant safety and am glad Ford has built some seriously strong chassis'.

I agree occupant safety is occupant safety and there is no way around that. That said, I have seen an airbag seriously mess up a face, i.e., broken nose, jaw, and serious bruising -- all the result of the car impacting a deer at 35 mph. I will never buy into the theory that a car needs 20 airbags because a test performed under perfect conditions says they are the end all to be all, or because our government requires them. There are just too many variables.

Yeah airbag deployment is no joke, however modern systems now use two stage deployments specifically to reduce injuries just like that.

Agreed. Frontal airbags are required. The question still stands how many do you really need to be safe. Do NOT advocate making the cars less safe AT ALL!!!!!!

But they do crash testing and they can measure the benefits of how many airbags make a difference. What I do not like is some marketing claiming tacitly the car is better based on airbag count. There is more to safety than throwing more airbags

I agree that a lot of companies market the safety of their cars based on the number of airbags they have, but we also have to agree that these safety designs don't just rest after a few impact tests in a lab but also take into account feedback from actual car accidents. A friend of mine just moved into a new job doing accident forensics. These guys can collect data to report to manufacturers showing how their safety designs functioned in the real world.




Over the last few years on the forums I've seen quite a few S197 owners reporting severe frontal and side(t-bone) impacts and lived to tell all about it, some walking away with barely minor injuries. All I can say is that I am very thankful for that and praise Ford's work in safety especially with a sporty car like the Mustang. I would disagree with any idea of reducing the effectiveness of safety systems for reductions in weight. Ford has been pretty good at leaving the expensive and heavy infotainment systems as optional.

IMO we should have at least two front airbags, side torso bags, and side curtain airbags. Beyond that would probably be excessive unless you want extra protection for rear occupants.

 

[Stuntman]

F=MA

Lighter cars are inherently safer.

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