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Eritas

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The GTR’s wing is closer to the new 2018 wing than it is to the 350R’s wing. And the ZL1 1LE is nothing compared to the Viper’s wing. The 350R’s wing is a bit wider and has more effective surface area than the ILE’s wing, and their Angle of Attack is about the same. I have access to the CAD data for both wings.

Top is 350R's wing and button is ZL1 1LE's wing. The 1LE's wing is longer because the Camaro is a wider car than the Mustang.
Thanks for providing that. So the 350R has a longer Chord, but there outer 7" isnt contributing much because it curves down to attach to the trunk, while the 1LE wing is not only wider, but all of the width contributes to downforce, making for a far larger effective area and span.
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Thanks for providing that. So the 350R has a longer Chord, but there outer 7" isnt contributing much because it curves down to attach to the trunk, while the 1LE wing is not only wider, but all of the width contributes to downforce, making for a far larger effective area and span.
I don’t think you’ve actually seen this wing before in real life, or versed in how aero works. It curves downwards at the leading edge, but the trailing edge still curves upwards dramatically. This means there still a very low pressure region below its surface. This is how downforce happens. The extra 7” you deem ineffective produces most of the wing’s downforce due to its exposure to a cleaner laminar flow and a more aggressive AoA.
 

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I don’t think you’ve actually seen this wing before in real life, or versed in how aero works. It curves downwards at the leading edge, but the trailing edge still curves upwards dramatically. This means there still a very low pressure region below its surface. This is how downforce happens. The extra 7” you deem ineffective produces most of the wing’s downforce due to its exposure to a cleaner laminar flow and a more aggressive AoA.
Re-read what I said. The outer 7" (of the span) that curves down and attaches to the trunk (like a Nissan GTR) rather than a proper straight wing like a ACR, GT3, or 1LE.

The 350Rs 61" span is actually more like 45".

350R - 45x9.44 = 424.8sq-in
1LE - 64x7.25 = 464sq-in

So it's actually fairly close.

Edit - but then again, the 1LE has an even wider effective span because of how it wraps around the cars green house (the edges are angles down from the above picture you provided - which mean they angle towards the front of the car when the wing is mounted on the car.). So if you run a string down the middle of the chord, it would have a longer span than 64". So it'll end up having even more surface area than the 350R.
 

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Spirit Of Fire

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Re-read what I said. The outer 7" (of the span) that curves down and attaches to the trunk (like a Nissan GTR) rather than a proper straight wing like a ACR, GT3, or 1LE.

The 350Rs 61" span is actually more like 45".

350R - 45x9.44 = 424.8sq-in
1LE - 64x7.25 = 464sq-in

So it's actually fairly close.

Edit - but then again, the 1LE has an even wider effective span because of how it wraps around the cars green house (the edges are angles down from the above picture you provided - which mean they angle towards the front of the car when the wing is mounted on the car.). So if you run a string down the middle of the chord, it would have a longer span than 64". So it'll end up having even more surface area than the 350R.
You seem to be making up your own numbers, even though you have no access to the data. Here is a cross section of the "outter 7'" you invented and somehow deem to be ineffective, it is still an airfoil and still has an AoA. The wing's section that is aero neutral is only 5.02", not 7, so your math is wrong. 50.8x9.44 = 479.3 sq-in.

So, no. It's not a "fake" wing.
cross-section-R.jpg
aero nuetral.PNG
 
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Spirit Of Fire

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Have YOU seen an R wing in person? My friend has one and I can assure you that the 5" you have outlined is not the shape of an airfoil (perpendicular to it's chord) and thus does not contribute to downforce. -unless you can provide a crossection in the middle of that 5" that's cut perpendicular to it's chord (~45*)

Past that 5", it slowly turns into an airfoil so I stand behind my 7" of wasted width and. 45" of effective span. So we can agree to disagree there.

Since you do have the data, can you measure the true span of the 1LE, by measuring the length of the centerline of the wing?

Good Lord you're dense. Apparently I have to spell it out for you that when I called the wing "fake" it was SARCASM DIRECTED TOWARD ttime500 :frusty:

I believe the 350R wing is "real" and that it creates a lot of downforce. I disagree with you on the effective span and that the uprights don't make downforce.
The one your friend has is probably an aftermarket knockoff, not the real thing or scaled 1:1 to a 350R’s spec. I have not only seen the real ones, I’ve built them. I also build the 1LE’s wings, it’s not like I have cad data just lying around for no good reason. The only part of the R’s wing that is aero neutral(Isn’t an airfoil) is only 5 inches, not 7. I made that clear previously with pictures.
 

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Well you replied quicker than my edit so read below.

Yes Ford put a knockoff wing on his 2016 350R :headbonk:

You build knockoffs? For what company?
You seem to be making up your own numbers, even though you have no access to the data. Here is a cross section of the "outter 7'" you invented and somehow deem to be ineffective, it is still an airfoil and still has an AoA. The wing's section that is aero neutral is only 5.02", not 7, so your math is wrong. 50.8x9.44 = 479.3 sq-in.

So, no. It's not a "fake" wing.
Have YOU seen an R wing in person? My friend has one and I can assure you that the 5" you have outlined is not the shape of an airfoil (perpendicular to it's chord) and thus does not contribute to downforce. -unless you can provide a crossection in the middle of that 5" that's cut perpendicular to it's chord (~45*)??

If they do have an airfoil profile, then they act like "winglets" on a plane:

"Winglets...generate lift perpendicular to the relative wind. If you didn't have wingtip vortices, the winglet would generate lift inward, which isn't very helpful."

http://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/aerodynamics/winglets-and-wingtip-vortices/

Past that 5", it slowly turns into an airfoil so I stand behind my 7" of wasted width and. 45" of effective span. Assuming the uprights have an airfoil, and taking half of the downforce created by them (due to the ~45* mounting angle) I would give half of their width back (that contributes to vertical downforce) and say the effective span is 55".

Since you do have the data, can you measure the true span of the 1LE, by measuring the length of the centerline of the wing?

Good Lord you're dense. Apparently I have to spell it out for you that when I called the wing "fake" it was SARCASM DIRECTED TOWARD ttime500 :frusty:

I believe the 350R wing is "real" and that it creates a lot of downforce. I disagree with you on the effective span and that the uprights don't make downforce.
 

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The only part not making downforce is the area highlighted in red, and that area is only 5 inches, not 7 like you keep insisting on without providing any relevant data.
5B1D09CA-EF70-4F87-AB8B-D3210E449F03.jpeg
 

Eritas

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The only part not making downforce is the area highlighted in red, and that area is only 5 inches, not 7 like you keep insisting on without providing any relevant data.
If you actually read what I type instead of selectively reading what you disagree with (the problem with society today and why we can't have useful debates that move forward in any beneficial way) you would realize that I would possibly give back half of that 5" back if you could provide a cross section of the middle of that 5" perpendicular to its chord, to see if it we're truly an airfoil :frusty:
 

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If you actually read what I type instead of selectively reading what you disagree with (the problem with society today and why we can't have useful debates that move forward in any beneficial way) you would realize that I would possibly give back half of that 5" back if you could provide a cross section of the middle of that 5" perpendicular to its chord, to see if it we're truly an airfoil :frusty:
The area right next to the highlighted region is also an airfoil, I posted this picture previously. There is a reason I told you that only the highlighted region in red is aero neutral. The highlighted region is 5”, not 7.
608F41EC-A6DC-4448-9FFB-CD643B299A59.jpeg
 

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Eritas

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The area right next to the highlighted region is also an airfoil, I posted this picture previously. There is a reason I told you that only the highlighted region in red is aero neutral. The highlighted region is 5”, not 7.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like the cut is made at a 90* angle, which is why I asked you to cut it perpendicular to the chord (~45*) in the MIDDLE of that 5" upright.

Due to your responses and lack of reading comprehension, I'm getting the feeling your "friend" is the engineer who works for a knockoff wing company and you're just repeating what he says.
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like the cut is made at a 90* angle, which is why I asked you to cut it perpendicular to the chord (~45*) in the MIDDLE of that 5" upright.

Due to your responses and lack of reading comprehension, I'm getting the feeling your "friend" is the engineer who works for a knockoff wing company and you're just repeating what he says.
The cut isn’t made at any angle. The position you see the wing is the position it sits on the trunk of the car. It is angled by design. You asked me to correct you if you are wrong, and I have.
 

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The cut isn’t made at any angle. The position you see the wing is the position it sits on the trunk of the car. It is angled by design.
I really hope you're not an engineer that makes parts :frusty::frusty::frusty:

Ask your engineer friend to make the cross sectional cut (orange box) that he did (that shows the airfoil profile) perpendicular to the wing chord in the middle of that 5" area that we are debating if it creates downforce or not. That cross sectional cut will be around 45* because the uprights are at 45* curving down to the trunk (acting like uprights or winglets) and are not parallel to the ground.

I don't know how to be any more clear. Just copy this message and text it to him.
 

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I really hope you're not an engineer that makes parts :frusty::frusty::frusty:

Ask your engineer friend to make the cross sectional cut that he did (that shows the airfoil profile) perpendicular to the wing chord in the middle of that 5" area that we are debating if it creates downforce or not. That cross sectional cut will be around 45* because the uprights are at 45* curving down to the trunk (acting like uprights or winglets) and are not parallel to the ground.

I don't know how to be any more clear. Just copy this message and text it to him.
No one is debating wether the 5” area creates downforce or not, I already told you like 5 times already that it does not. You seem to lack reading comprehension yourself.
 

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The picture I showed you is the cross section of the area right before the 5” area, that is the area that has an airfoil.
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