2015 5.0 Mustang GT PP vs. Mercedes 6.3 C63 AMG

[Entick]

All,

Given we can't order the Mustang yet in the UK (and no dates have been released) I've started getting impatient and considering alternatives. I wanted to ask this group for their views on how a new 5.0 GT PP stacks up against a 1 year old 6.3 C63 AMG.

The Mustang GT is expected to launch at c. £35k in the UK – while the Mercedes is available at that price immediately (for a used car with less than 10,000 miles on the clock).

The Mercedes has a more powerful engine (457bhp), nicer interior trim and probably a higher quality fit and finish. It also seems to be more practical (real back seats, larger trunk). Not sure how parts / servicing costs will work out given the Mustang is a new car to the country, but I’d guess the Merc is going to be more expensive.

The Mustang will be much more exclusive here, and more of an iconic car. The C-class body shape is very common here, so outside of the driving experience it won't feel like anything special.

Has anyone driven both cars? Which is faster / more fun? How do they compare?

Thanks!

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[Tm@c1965]

That is a lot of money for a Mustang. I think about as much as an AMG costs here in the US. I imagine the new Stang will not get embarrassed by an AMG, but they really are in different price leagues (at least here they are).

 

[Grimace427]

I am a Mercedes tech and I've driven many C63's, some with the P30/31 package, and some modded. The fact that the AMG only comes with an auto is a big turn off for me. It's a spectacular car, really a modern German muscle car in the truest sense.

It has a few issues namely a severe lack of room for big rear tires(275 is the max without modding the fenders), it will go through rear tires every 5,000-6,000 miles because of the torque and skinny tires, the ride is very firm(I like it, others might not), maintenance is pricey unless you do it yourself, and the exhaust becomes extremely loud if you mod it at all. Removing the cats to add longtube headers makes the exhaust sound like flatulence through a thousand megaphones(I'll later post some videos I shot of a few customer cars in my shop).

The last few years of the C204 have been very good to us in reliability. We are finishing up a taillight recall that repairs the ground wire circuitry. Some front struts make a clunking sound. Otherwise not too many issues.


IMO the Mustang, especially in Europe, will garner much more attention and praise over the likely more common MB C-class AMG or not. I think you would enjoy the C63, but you would fall in love with the Mustang.

 

[NiddyGriddy]

Honestly I think US and UK have differing tastes in what we prefer in our performance cars and what it should cost. I think the best thing for you to do would be to either wait until the mustang comes and test drive or rent both cars and see what you like and what you're willing to pay for. If you're really itching to get another car then go ahead and get the used Merc drive it for a bit, get a good feel of it, then when the mustang comes out test drive or rent one and see how it stacks up and decide. If you like the mustang trade the Merc for the stang. If not then just keep the Merc.

Of course if you don't like any of those options then (personally) I'd say go for the exclusiveness. Personally I like going against the grain and doing my on thing for what I like and what's right for me. I'm a little put off with having the exact same thing as everyone else.

 

[OppoLock]

We have one in the family and I've been fortunate enough to borrow it for a couple of weekends over the past 5-6ish years. It's an amazing car, but you're really going to get a different experience. The C63 has its ups and downs. Anything specific you had questions about?

 

[tbonez3858]

I am a Mercedes tech and I've driven many C63's, some with the P30/31 package, and some modded. The fact that the AMG only comes with an auto is a big turn off for me. It's a spectacular car, really a modern German muscle car in the truest sense.

It has a few issues namely a severe lack of room for big rear tires(275 is the max without modding the fenders), it will go through rear tires every 5,000-6,000 miles because of the torque and skinny tires, the ride is very firm(I like it, others might not), maintenance is pricey unless you do it yourself, and the exhaust becomes extremely loud if you mod it at all. Removing the cats to add longtube headers makes the exhaust sound like flatulence through a thousand megaphones(I'll later post some videos I shot of a few customer cars in my shop).

The last few years of the C204 have been very good to us in reliability. We are finishing up a taillight recall that repairs the ground wire circuitry. Some front struts make a clunking sound. Otherwise not too many issues.


IMO the Mustang, especially in Europe, will garner much more attention and praise over the likely more common MB C-class AMG or not. I think you would enjoy the C63, but you would fall in love with the Mustang.

This is the most positive thing I've read from you regarding Mercedes. Im sure you get sick of Merc because you work on them everyday but your lack of "love" for Mercedes really surprised me...

On a side note new sets of rear tires every 5k? Is this normal driving or if you are hooning it?

 

[OppoLock]

This is the most positive thing I've read from you regarding Mercedes. Im sure you get sick of Merc because you work on them everyday but your lack of "love" for Mercedes really surprised me...

On a side note new sets of rear tires every 5k? Is this normal driving or if you are hooning it?

It's a matter of use it and lose it. My mother would go through a set every 12-15k, but that thing never saw much throttle and the tach wouldn't be caught above 3k with her behind the wheel.

There's some heavy camber out back which can cause some premature wear, but it's really not as bad as people make it out. Just comes down to driving style.

 

[Entick]

Thanks for the responses so far. Grimace427, appreciate your insights.

Oppolock - when you say it has ups and downs, what do you mean? What are the key negatives?

I'm ultimately looking for something that is very fast, handles well and can eat the miles - but is also (relatively) comfortable at low speeds / in traffic etc (where I usually end up spending most of my time). I like the idea of auto / paddle shift - but have heard some bad things about the Mustang's auto box - is it true that its old tech / slow to shift?

Outside of the speed and comfort, I want to feel I've spent my cash on a high quality product, so am a bit worried by all of the quality control / panel gap issues and interior problems many have reported about the new Mustang on here. Are they as common as the forum suggests?

In reality I want a Mustang but I feel like I should want a C63. Is it the better car at the same price?

 

[Grimace427]

This is the most positive thing I've read from you regarding Mercedes. Im sure you get sick of Merc because you work on them everyday but your lack of "love" for Mercedes really surprised me...

On a side note new sets of rear tires every 5k? Is this normal driving or if you are hooning it?

I reserve my 'Benz praise for the appropriate times to avoid sounding like a fanboy. I had seriously considered buying a used '10-11 C63 with my employee discount before I got my 5.0 but the lack of a manual and of course the price turned me away. I love road testing AMG's, especially our new M157 5.5l TT models which are some of the most beastly cars on the road. My current favorite MB is the R231 SL, and it doesn't even need to be an AMG. The way they drive is pure magic, no better way to describe it. Well worth the $100k+ pricetag IMO.

The Mustang is my favorite car, but MB is my favorite manufacturer. Invented the car in the first place, more automotive firsts than any other manufacturer, participated in the first auto race, first electric car, first supercharged car, 4-wheel independent suspension, crumple zone, ABS/ESP, I could go on. The cars are crazy-complicated and make me feel like a trained monkey sometimes while working on them.

Regarding rear tire change intervals, 5-6k is just what I notice from my customers. I don't really know how they are driving, but I can see their service history and see every time they need to replace their tires. I recommend Michelin Super Sport or Pilot A/S 3 tires to every AMG customer and they do much better in terms of wear than the OEM Pirellis or Conti Sport Contacts.

 

[Grimace427]

Thanks for the responses so far. Grimace427, appreciate your insights. I like the idea of auto / paddle shift - but have heard some bad things about the Mustang's auto box - is it true that its old tech / slow to shift?

Outside of the speed and comfort, I want to feel I've spent my cash on a high quality product, so am a bit worried by all of the quality control / panel gap issues and interior problems many have reported about the new Mustang on here. Are they as common as the forum suggests?

In reality I want a Mustang but I feel like I should want a C63. Is it the better car at the same price?

The Mercedes 7G-Tronic transmission is absolutely excellent. Of course there are issues with some models, but most are resolved with software updates. The NAG-2Sport version in AMG models shifts very fast, especially the latest models with the MCT wet-startup clutch installed in (I believe) '12+ C63's and SL63's.


Of course the Mercedes is going to be more luxurious than the Mustang but it will cost much more.

 

[OppoLock]

Oppolock - when you say it has ups and downs, what do you mean? What are the key negatives?

I'm ultimately looking for something that is very fast, handles well and can eat the miles - but is also (relatively) comfortable at low speeds / in traffic etc (where I usually end up spending most of my time). I like the idea of auto / paddle shift - but have heard some bad things about the Mustang's auto box - is it true that its old tech / slow to shift?

Outside of the speed and comfort, I want to feel I've spent my cash on a high quality product, so am a bit worried by all of the quality control / panel gap issues and interior problems many have reported about the new Mustang on here. Are they as common as the forum suggests?

In reality I want a Mustang but I feel like I should want a C63. Is it the better car at the same price?

There are plenty of positive traits that the car possesses, but I'll start with the cons. Bear in mind that this is largely aimed at the MY08-11 models, as the MY12-14 received some key improvements and changes.

The interior build quality is superb in every sense of the word; every panel has some serious heft and the switchgear is all positive in terms of feel and actuation, but the overall materials do not correspond with the pricetag. Plenty of questionable plastics and materials cover a lot of touch points. So it's built like a vault, but the interior design and tactile sensations don't keep up. This is largely rectified with the MY12-14 models which not only have a different interior layout, but a better steering wheel and plenty of respectable surface materials.

The transmission is better than the S550's AT in some areas, but it's also worse in others. The 7G works best when left in any of its automated settings. It doesn't shine so bright when it comes to the manumatic functions; shift input response is inconsistent. Around cruising speeds with minimal throttle - regardless of what drive mode you're in (C/S/M) - it lags pretty badly. Oddly, the moment you give it some serious throttle while simultaneously commanding an upshift, it gets better... on par with the S550's in that situation. Downshifts vary in intensity and sound fantastic. They're mostly well matched (not as well as the S550's I'd venture to say), and there's serious aural drama if you're rapidly decelerating while holding down the left paddle as the car rows down through the gears like a series of rifle shots. Seven speeds is a plus, but the car can be reluctant to go into the gear you're looking for when the tach gets near the upper or lower reaches.

Ride quality on the standard suspension is okay. There isn't any real harshness, but it's not plush by any standard. The MY08-11 stumbles when driven at the limit. I did not feel confident when pushing the tires, even when my inputs remained smooth. It definitely leads with its nose, and while it responds to throttle and brake inputs mid-corner, it feels like the weight stumbles haphazardly between the four contact patches.

The brakes feels great, but the actual performance didn't feel all too confidence inspiring when I pushed them hard. And as far as traction control is concerned - it's pointlessly limiting while on, be it in standard setting or stepped down after tapping the TCS button. Turning it off is like flipping a behavior switch. The car becomes a bit of a point-the-nose, stab-the-throttle, and hang-on-for-dear-life at that point. There isn't a real fluency when it comes to corner entry to corner exit if you're not shy with the throttle.

Electronic features and the COMAND system lack in comparison to the S550's MFT. Operation is intuitive, but there's a shallow list of features. iPod integration is terrible, and last I remembered, you cannot sync via Bluetooth. You have to plug your iPhone/media device into the glovebox and then you cannot control anything through the main screen; you're forced to use the tiny panel in between the instrument cluster using the steering wheel buttons.

On the positive side of things...

The engine is by far and away infinitely better than the Coyote if I'll be honest. The aftermarket potential is so easily accessible and the car has so much potential in it. The exhaust is pure eargasm material. It's extremely practical in terms of luggage storage and back seat volume. It's just a practical car with a nuclear bomb strapped under the front hood. It also looks really cool... totally brutish, like what I'd imagine a dual-persona executive would drive.

So it's a great car overall, but for the money I think the S550 GT offers a really competitive package and a largely different experience.

 

[Grimace427]

Oppolock, I agree with pretty much everything you said. Unfortunately I don't drive customer cars hard enough to share your handling opinions!

The Comand vs MFT/SYNC is definitely something I agree on. I've spent countless years dealing with Comand to know it's many points of failure, with voice recognition being #1 IMO. Ford SYNC voice recog is so much better that it's a huge relief getting back into my car at the end of the day.

Interior materials is another point I can agree on though it's a different perspective. I have to constantly remove and reinstall panels at work and I've broken a plastic piece or seventy. The wood trim is 95% of the time real wood with occasional vaneers so that's a good point, though replacing them requires getting the entire interior wood trim kit otherwise they won't match. Pieces are fit very snug but unfortunately when they start to make noise it can take all day to fix it.


My opinion on AMG brakes might be a touch different as I feel they are the best in the business. Perhaps the model you drove had an issue or the tires were a factor.

Coyote vs M156, stock for stock it's AMG all day. 6.2 liters of German engineering vs a very good 5.0 liters of American muscle. I would put my modded 5.0 up against a stock C63 any day, and some modded C63s on stock tires(spin city!), but a C63 on drag tires would destroy me in a race.

 

[OppoLock]

Oppolock, I agree with pretty much everything you said. Unfortunately I don't drive customer cars hard enough to share your handling opinions!

The Comand vs MFT/SYNC is definitely something I agree on. I've spent countless years dealing with Comand to know it's many points of failure, with voice recognition being #1 IMO. Ford SYNC voice recog is so much better that it's a huge relief getting back into my car at the end of the day.

Interior materials is another point I can agree on though it's a different perspective. I have to constantly remove and reinstall panels at work and I've broken a plastic piece or seventy. The wood trim is 95% of the time real wood with occasional vaneers so that's a good point, though replacing them requires getting the entire interior wood trim kit otherwise they won't match. Pieces are fit very snug but unfortunately when they start to make noise it can take all day to fix it.


My opinion on AMG brakes might be a touch different as I feel they are the best in the business. Perhaps the model you drove had an issue or the tires were a factor.

Coyote vs M156, stock for stock it's AMG all day. 6.2 liters of German engineering vs a very good 5.0 liters of American muscle. I would put my modded 5.0 up against a stock C63 any day, and some modded C63s on stock tires(spin city!), but a C63 on drag tires would destroy me in a race.

You know what, I do think the tires were the issue. Everything about the brake pedal is on point. They do exactly what you'd expect them to do, and there's some actual granular feedback that corresponds with the different surfaces and pressure you give it. I just know that there was some serious pucker factor involved with some panic stops where the car gave a sense of over-confidence. Probably a weight/grip issue at that point.

I would love to see how these things are assembled. Last I recall, her car had about 45-50k miles on it with nary a peep. It blows me away to see how well it's aged compared to my shit-house E92. My car turned into a squeak factory as early as 15k miles in. I despise my interior build quality, but I do love the materials that it's composed of.

I'm really curious to see if you notice any build quality differences with the new W205. Got to test drive one about a month ago. Lawd have mercy on the competition. ;)

 

[Grimace427]

I would love to see how these things are assembled. Last I recall, her car had about 45-50k miles on it with nary a peep. It blows me away to see how well it's aged compared to my shit-house E92. My car turned into a squeak factory as early as 15k miles in. I despise my interior build quality, but I do love the materials that it's composed of.

I'm really curious to see if you notice any build quality differences with the new W205. Got to test drive one about a month ago. Lawd have mercy on the competition. ;)

From '12+(13+ for some models) Mercedes made a huge turnaround in terms of quality and design. The C204 has been rock solid for us inside, outside, and underneath. I have yet to drive a 205 but I see them on our lots and getting PDI's all the time. Their pricetags though. Lawd have mercy on those who think they are the entry level Mercedes now! The CLA is a nice car but damn, the C-Class can't be considered accessible anymore! We have them listed at $51,000-54,000!! For a C-Class! Dat TTV6 though.

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