1000 miles with new engine update

[Dfeeds]

Not sure where this belongs, but considering all the warrantied engine swaps are discussed here I'll throw it in this section unless mods deem otherwise.

So a quick update. I took my car in for some excessive noise, was told it was normal, fought it, and was given authorization for a new short block. Upon teardown, camshaft damage was found a long block soon followed.

Symptoms were (excluding the rattle and tick) a high pitch metallic clanging sound at idle, rough idle, poor acceleration, and metal in the oil filter.


The new engine also sounds like sneakers in a dryer but it gets much better when warm and I was tired of dealing with it. I swapped in Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 after about 50 miles (whatever the test driving and distance to my home was).

It has the bbq tick, although it's infrequent. I noticed that, if I just do short trips, the bbq becomes much more frequent. One good, long trip with some spirited driving and it goes away for a while.

It also has the rattle, but this goes away after warmed up. I can still hear a rattle, but that sound can be eliminated by moving the shifter around, so that's probably driveline related. It has a bad belt chirp, but considering the trail of oil running down the engine cover, I think I know why... It also has a very rapid ticking at idle that doesn't follow engine speed and doesn't seem consistent. The sound is most prominent from the DI pump, using a stethoscope. I'm not worried, but it is odd why I hear it now and never did on the old engine, all things being equal. If someone knows about this, feel free to chime in.

I haven't babied this engine, nor adhered to any break in rules. I simply just didn't care this time around, because I had to have the car sit for nearly 3 months upon getting it back (thank you winter and factory summer tires). The car pulls like crazy, revs without any hesitation, and generally just feels great. I even had a quick run with a 2018 pp2. I pulled on it by a decent amount, so either that driver held back or this engine is on the faster side of the allowed variance. Well, I do run 93, so that could've been a factor, but no matter.

I want to bring up the 1000 mile mark because I've been keeping tabs on my oil and coolant level (for obvious reasons). Coolant is good, no real surprise as long as it was assembled properly. The oil is my biggest surprise. It's at the exact same spot it was from day one. As I said, I have not babied this engine. I've only red lined it once, but I've frequently revved it to above 6k rpms every time I've driven it. I never took it beyond 2500 when cold, for what it's worth. I really did expect some loss, and am pleasantly surprised at the outcome. Who knows, maybe it is because I'm not babying this engine.


I want to note that the 1000 miles are very mixed driving. I've gotten there through a couple long expressway trips, my short 10 minute commute to work, some stop and go city driving, and mostly highway/suburban driving.

Come my next oil change I'll crack open the filter, but for now I have high hopes. I'll live with a noisy engine any day if it means little to no oil consumption, good power, and hopefully good reliability.

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[Zinc03svt]

Good news.

My car has burned zero oil. I would not keep a burner around for long myself.

Run good fuel and you should be good to go.

 

[Dfeeds]

Good news.

My car has burned zero oil. I would not keep a burner around for long myself.

Run good fuel and you should be good to go.

Indeed. I know the manual says 87 is okay, but running 87 with a 12:1 compression ratio just seems like it's asking for bad news. If e85 were easy to get around me then I'd be all over that, but fortunately 93 with e10 is plentiful. My mpg seems to go down about 1 or 2 with it, but it runs great.

 

[mustangpegasus51]

@Dfeeds how many miles between oil changes are you planning (or had planned considering how long ago this thread was) to check the oil for metal? I feel like I'm experiencing some performance issues, but from what I've heard it's hard to blame the engine unless we get shavings in the oil. I'm currently mulling waiting 500 miles than asking dealer to do an oil change + filter and then to tear open the filter and inform me if they find anything.

 

[Dfeeds]

@Dfeeds how many miles between oil changes are you planning (or had planned considering how long ago this thread was) to check the oil for metal? I feel like I'm experiencing some performance issues, but from what I've heard it's hard to blame the engine unless we get shavings in the oil. I'm currently mulling waiting 500 miles than asking dealer to do an oil change + filter and then to tear open the filter and inform me if they find anything.

I checked on my first change which was around 5k miles and it was fine. I've had two other changes since. I probably should have pulled open the old filter but laziness got the better of me. I'm sticking to 5k/6 month oil change intervals and used the previous filter for a little under 10k miles.

Where do you live, and what performance issues are you experiencing? Performance issues aren't exactly uncommon this time of year. High heat and especially high humidity aren't an engine's friend, especially not one with a high compression ratio. Your low end will feel a bit worse. There's so many factors into why an engine can occasionally be down on power that it's hard to contribute it to one specific reason.

 

[mustangpegasus51]

Okay hmmm I might just have to wait until my next scheduled oil change then.

As far as the summer, I'm in SoCal so it definitely gets warm. I suspected the same, but I bought the car end of September which is still a pretty warm time of year out here.

Performance wise the car feels a bit jerky and the exhaust note is a bit off. If you've seen the other threads I've been on I think the exhaust note is a pretty simple fix to the active exhaust valve. To me it sounds too much like an I4 or something, and besides the thumping (which I've heard is what the typewriter tick sounds like from the top of the engine or in the interior,) the idle feels super quiet, even if the RPMs seem about right.

The jerkiness, I can't tell if it's the trans or the engine not getting enough of something. Silly question: without the digital dash, is there a way to tell what gear I'm in with the 10r80? I can faint a guess but I don't actually see a number anywhere.

I had the transmission computer reflashed and it helped a bit, but something just feels under-powered. I'm not stalling or getting a rough idle, but it jerks when I hit it most of the time, jerks if I keep a light, consistent throttle, and if I slow down/stop and try to go again, sometimes there's significant delay before the throttle seems to respond. I'm also getting about 11mpg which seems abnormal even for this car. I pulled a P0300 a few weeks ago, on a night drive in quiet mode gunning it -- I don't think the ae valve would affect performance at all, but I only got the P0300 in quiet mode that one time. Dealer tried several pulls trying to set off the misfire again, got nothing so far.

I thought maybe the throttle body was acting up (I swear I hear it make a pop noise sometimes) especially since my assembly date matches customer satisfaction program 18B34. When I called Ford they said I wasn't on the VIN list despite assembly date match, which set me off a bit because I figured what's the harm in trying this if it's so close to being part of a bad batch? Even if this is something else, I'd rather be safe that sorry with the TB, and the dealer will have a tough time justifying a preventative measure without corporate giving the go-ahead.

But alas, it is what it is. I got a little upset with Ford but honestly the dealer I get service from is super nice and whatever happens might even buy my next car from them. They're trying their best even when staffing is probably lower during these crazy times we're all living in right now.

Turned into a rant a bit but I really do love my car. Oh, and I forgot, on top of all this, between servicing the car, I had to move mine for street cleaning and someone tapped the bumper a block away from my apartment. The dealer actually offered to have their bodyshop see if they can snap it back in right, which again makes me really like them.

 

[GMONSTAH]

It also has the rattle, but this goes away after warmed up. I can still hear a rattle, but that sound can be eliminated by moving the shifter around, so that's probably driveline related.

I have been saying this for a while too. In 5th and 6th it doesn't exist, and in 4th I can change it by moving the shifter around. It's either the notorious MT82 tranny, or the clutch. I have heard other people say that is a common characteristic of this type of clutch. I was I could swap both and figure it out once and for all.

 

[Dfeeds]

Okay hmmm I might just have to wait until my next scheduled oil change then.

As far as the summer, I'm in SoCal so it definitely gets warm. I suspected the same, but I bought the car end of September which is still a pretty warm time of year out here.

Performance wise the car feels a bit jerky and the exhaust note is a bit off. If you've seen the other threads I've been on I think the exhaust note is a pretty simple fix to the active exhaust valve. To me it sounds too much like an I4 or something, and besides the thumping (which I've heard is what the typewriter tick sounds like from the top of the engine or in the interior,) the idle feels super quiet, even if the RPMs seem about right.

The jerkiness, I can't tell if it's the trans or the engine not getting enough of something. Silly question: without the digital dash, is there a way to tell what gear I'm in with the 10r80? I can faint a guess but I don't actually see a number anywhere.

I had the transmission computer reflashed and it helped a bit, but something just feels under-powered. I'm not stalling or getting a rough idle, but it jerks when I hit it most of the time, jerks if I keep a light, consistent throttle, and if I slow down/stop and try to go again, sometimes there's significant delay before the throttle seems to respond. I'm also getting about 11mpg which seems abnormal even for this car. I pulled a P0300 a few weeks ago, on a night drive in quiet mode gunning it -- I don't think the ae valve would affect performance at all, but I only got the P0300 in quiet mode that one time. Dealer tried several pulls trying to set off the misfire again, got nothing so far.

I thought maybe the throttle body was acting up (I swear I hear it make a pop noise sometimes) especially since my assembly date matches customer satisfaction program 18B34. When I called Ford they said I wasn't on the VIN list despite assembly date match, which set me off a bit because I figured what's the harm in trying this if it's so close to being part of a bad batch? Even if this is something else, I'd rather be safe that sorry with the TB, and the dealer will have a tough time justifying a preventative measure without corporate giving the go-ahead.

But alas, it is what it is. I got a little upset with Ford but honestly the dealer I get service from is super nice and whatever happens might even buy my next car from them. They're trying their best even when staffing is probably lower during these crazy times we're all living in right now.

Turned into a rant a bit but I really do love my car. Oh, and I forgot, on top of all this, between servicing the car, I had to move mine for street cleaning and someone tapped the bumper a block away from my apartment. The dealer actually offered to have their bodyshop see if they can snap it back in right, which again makes me really like them.

How long ago was the car flashed/how many miles? If the KAM was reset then your car will take a bit to relearn its fuel trims. When I reset mine it felt like a total dog for over 100 miles.

Hard to diagnose though. A sticking active exhaust valve would cause a lot of issues. The exhaust plays a crucial role in the exhaust of the car because it causes a vacuum effect that draws out the exhaust fumes. Sticking open isn't an issue if it's sticking closed then your engine can choke because those exhaust fumes have no where to go. It's one reason why I specifically didn't want active exhaust. Just one more problem to occur... what you described sounds like misfiring (jerkiness at steady part throttle) so the ecm will either pull timing, enrichen the mixture, or both. This directly correlates to your low end torque and throttle response.

If your exhaust valve is sticking intermittently and causing the exhaust gasses to move back into the chamber then this will cause a misfire. The ecm will then run it rich to see if it solves the problem. Hence your poor fuel economy. A sticking exhaust valve is nothing to scoff at. See if there's a way to turn it off or force it to stay open.

EDIT: post errored out and only half actually got posted. Hopefully nothing is missing, I'm too lazy to reread.

 

[Jetnoise]

The exhaust plays a crucial role in the exhaust of the car because it causes a vacuum effect that draws out the exhaust fumes.

Is there some tech sheet about the vacuum you can point to?

If your exhaust valve is sticking intermittently and causing the exhaust gasses to move back into the chamber then this will cause a misfire. The ecm will then run it rich to see if it solves the problem. Hence your poor fuel economy. A sticking exhaust valve is nothing to scoff at. See if there's a way to turn it off or force it to stay open.

Do AE cars utilize a different part number ecm? Do AE cars make more hp at any rpm in any mode than non AE cars?
Curious

 

[Dfeeds]

Is there some tech sheet about the vacuum you can point to?

Do AE cars utilize a different part number ecm? Do AE cars make more hp at any rpm in any mode than non AE cars?
Curious

No? We have an exhaust pipe for a reason. Air and gas mix to produce a flammable mixture. Spark plug ignites mixture that produces a flame front that travels up and, ideally, reaches peak pressure when the piston is at the top and on its way down. This force pushes the piston down. The exhaust fumes remain in the combustion chamber. These fumes are terrible for combustion so the exhaust valve opens to expel it. The exhaust fumes travels through the exhaust and out the tailpipe. Google exhaust scavenging. The better an exhaust is at creating a vacuum affect that sucks out the exhaust, the faster it clears out, and the more room is available for gas and clean air. If a tailpipe is plugged it will, at the bare minimum, cause a loss of power.

Exhaust scavenging isn't black and white, either. Optimal exhaust scavenging varies from engine platform to engine platform, individual engine to individual engine, and engine speed. But what is black and white is if your exhaust can't exit the tailpipe, you have problems.


As for AE creating more power? Doubt it, especially if you're in quiet mode. It's just a restriction at that point.

 

[Jetnoise]

No? We have an exhaust pipe for a reason. Air and gas mix to produce a flammable mixture. Spark plug ignites mixture that produces a flame front that travels up and, ideally, reaches peak pressure when the piston is at the top and on its way down. This force pushes the piston down. The exhaust fumes remain in the combustion chamber. These fumes are terrible for combustion so the exhaust valve opens to expel it. The exhaust fumes travels through the exhaust and out the tailpipe. Google exhaust scavenging. The better an exhaust is at creating a vacuum affect that sucks out the exhaust, the faster it clears out, and the more room is available for gas and clean air. If a tailpipe is plugged it will, at the bare minimum, cause a loss of power.

Exhaust scavenging isn't black and white, either. Optimal exhaust scavenging varies from engine platform to engine platform, individual engine to individual engine, and engine speed. But what is black and white is if your exhaust can't exit the tailpipe, you have problems.


As for AE creating more power? Doubt it, especially if you're in quiet mode. It's just a restriction at that point.

Mufflers are way down stream on an S550
Vacuum theory was long ago dismembered
If back pressure increases hp you have other issues up stream

 

[Dfeeds]

Mufflers are way down stream on an S550
Vacuum theory was long ago dismembered
If back pressure increases hp you have other issues up stream

What are you talking about? Exhaust scavenging isnt back pressure. It's an affect that occurs to that creates a vacuum to suck out the exhaust fumes on the exhaust stroke which is paramount for a high revving engine. Too restrictive or free flowing an exhaust can hinder this affect.

 

[mustangpegasus51]

How long ago was the car flashed/how many miles? If the KAM was reset then your car will take a bit to relearn its fuel trims. When I reset mine it felt like a total dog for over 100 miles.

Hard to diagnose though. A sticking active exhaust valve would cause a lot of issues. The exhaust plays a crucial role in the exhaust of the car because it causes a vacuum effect that draws out the exhaust fumes. Sticking open isn't an issue if it's sticking closed then your engine can choke because those exhaust fumes have no where to go. It's one reason why I specifically didn't want active exhaust. Just one more problem to occur... what you described sounds like misfiring (jerkiness at steady part throttle) so the ecm will either pull timing, enrichen the mixture, or both. This directly correlates to your low end torque and throttle response.

If your exhaust valve is sticking intermittently and causing the exhaust gasses to move back into the chamber then this will cause a misfire. The ecm will then run it rich to see if it solves the problem. Hence your poor fuel economy. A sticking exhaust valve is nothing to scoff at. See if there's a way to turn it off or force it to stay open.

EDIT: post errored out and only half actually got posted. Hopefully nothing is missing, I'm too lazy to reread.

KAM reset was about 200 miles ago.

Yeah it's funny, I remember wanting as few "extra" features as possible after watching a Scotty Kilmer video, where he points out exactly what you said: more features, more things to break. I thought the AE was largely a cosmetic thing, but what you're saying makes complete sense to me. It did feel like the sound was being "sucked back in" when revving, maybe that's related. To your point, would this mean during normal operation of the AE valve that the timing/richness of mixture depends on the mode selected? Or maybe the PCM adjusts based on exhaust mode? Also, will misfires always set off a CEL or throw a code?

Yeah I don't envy the mechanics having to look at my car. I've done some light IT work before, and "my computer's slow" is about as helpful as all hell. So here's to maybe hoping they can figure it out, even if my experience is vague. I'm just trying to be patient and understanding as I can.

 

[Jetnoise]

What are you talking about? Exhaust scavenging isnt back pressure. It's an affect that occurs to that creates a vacuum to suck out the exhaust fumes on the exhaust stroke which is paramount for a high revving engine. Too restrictive or free flowing an exhaust can hinder this affect.

Scavenging and tail pipe muffler go together?
Free flow is bad?
K

 

[Dfeeds]

KAM reset was about 200 miles ago.

Yeah it's funny, I remember wanting as few "extra" features as possible after watching a Scotty Kilmer video, where he points out exactly what you said: more features, more things to break. I thought the AE was largely a cosmetic thing, but what you're saying makes complete sense to me. It did feel like the sound was being "sucked back in" when revving, maybe that's related. To your point, would this mean during normal operation of the AE valve that the timing/richness of mixture depends on the mode selected? Or maybe the PCM adjusts based on exhaust mode? Also, will misfires always set off a CEL or throw a code?

Yeah I don't envy the mechanics having to look at my car. I've done some light IT work before, and "my computer's slow" is about as helpful as all hell. So here's to maybe hoping they can figure it out, even if my experience is vague. I'm just trying to be patient and understanding as I can.

Funny you mention that. Software engineering was my major while the engineer aspect of cars has always been a big hobby. Knowing both has actually helped gain a better understanding of the other.

Anyways, as for the modes: on a healthy engine during regular driving, I don't see the different modes largely impacting fuel economy. The difference would more so come into play when you're redlining at WOT. The issue would be more so if your AE valves are sticking shut. Restricted exhaust flow is 10x than no exhaust flow. Think of the childish prank of sticking a shoe in someone's tailpipe and then learning later the engine blew.

It depends on the frequency. The occasional misfire isn't really unusual, especially with an engine that relies on high compression. If the cam advance is set for 93 octane and someone dumps in 87 then the car will misfire, under load, and the computer will just retard the cam timing. If something like that set off the CEL then dealerships would be overrun. I'm not sure what variables will trip a code.

Scavenging and tail pipe muffler go together?
Free flow is bad?
K

Strawman, much? I didn't say free flow is bad, but too much isn't optimal. If it were, then race cars wouldn't bother having headers.

Is the muffler part of the exhaust? I thought so

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