Thinking about going big turbo? Spool Data.

Tune+ · Mar 15, 2016

I have been lucky enough to tune almost every turbo kit and turbo upgrade available for the Ecoboost Mustang. So, because of this I have been able to collect a ton of data on these different upgrades, but one question I get asked the most is "what does it spool like"? With the latest release of the Full-Race Twin Scroll turbo kit, and the Vargas Stage 2 stock frame upgrade the spool question is getting asked so much that I decided to just make a post and document everything.

How this is going to work, or how I envision this working is if you are in the market for a turbo kit and are interested in seeing a spool comparison between two turbo kits please request it below. I will quote you and post the comparison for you. I would love to have the spare time to just compare everything but it is not realistic with everything I have going on right now. I have dynographs and logs for the following turbo kits:

- Stock
- CP-E Twin Scroll 8374EFR Ball Bearing
- Full-Race Twin Scroll 7163EFR Ball Bearing
- FFTEC Open Scroll 7670EFR Ball Bearing (waiting for file)
- MAPerformance Open Scroll 5858 Journal Bearing
- MAPerformance Open Scroll 6466 Ball Bearing
- Vargas Turbo Technologies Stage 2 Stock Frame Journal Bearing

Here is all of them on one graph for now.

Juben · Mar 15, 2016

The torque curve is so flat on the 7163. It's hard for any turbo to match the EFR line-up.

Sent from my XT1095 using Tapatalk

dragonacc · Mar 15, 2016

I'd like to see the CP-E 8374 vs the Full Race 7163 when you get the chance.

EDIT: I'll hopefully have my car on the dyno within the next month or two so if no one else has a chart for a single scroll 8374 I'll share mine.

Tune+ · Mar 15, 2016

Juben said:
The torque curve is so flat on the 7163. It's hard for any turbo to match the EFR line-up.

Sent from my XT1095 using Tapatalk

Well they all almost take a nosedive in torque at 5200rpms. This is because of the factory head and camshafts. With a good ported head and some camshafts this thing will make torque all the way to redline with almost ANY turbo upgrade.

Tune+ · Mar 15, 2016

dragonacc said:
I'd like to see the CP-E 8374 vs the Full Race 7163 when you get the chance.

The CP-E kit is on a built motor that we are looking to push into the 9's this season. This is NOT turned up, there is much more power left on the table but I figured this was in the 400-range and is a good comparison for most street customers.

Edkiefer · Mar 15, 2016

The Full-Race Twin Scroll 7163EFR seems impressive for its size, spools fast .
The Vargus 2 seems like something holding it back from fast spool, at least from a turbo size view, its one of smallest ?
It could also be not loading engine low enough on dyno to i guess .

stang77 · Mar 15, 2016

Tune+ said:
I have been lucky enough to tune almost every turbo kit and turbo upgrade available for the Ecoboost Mustang. So, because of this I have been able to collect a ton of data on these different upgrades, but one question I get asked the most is "what does it spool like"? With the latest release of the Full-Race Twin Scroll turbo kit, and the Vargas Stage 2 stock frame upgrade the spool question is getting asked so much that I decided to just make a post and document everything.

How this is going to work, or how I envision this working is if you are in the market for a turbo kit and are interested in seeing a spool comparison between two turbo kits please request it below. I will quote you and post the comparison for you. I would love to have the spare time to just compare everything but it is not realistic with everything I have going on right now. I have dynographs and logs for the following turbo kits:

- Stock
- CP-E Twin Scroll 8374EFR Ball Bearing
- Full-Race Twin Scroll 7163EFR Ball Bearing
- FFTEC Open Scroll 7670EFR Ball Bearing (waiting for file)
- MAPerformance Open Scroll 5858 Journal Bearing
- MAPerformance Open Scroll 6466 Ball Bearing
- Vargas Turbo Technologies Stage 2 Stock Frame Journal Bearing

Here is all of them on one graph for now.

I'm looking at kits now. Trying to decide if I want the MAP 5862 Ball Bearing or the Vargas Stage 2. Which would you recommend? How do they compare?

Joe_Stang · Mar 15, 2016

stang77 said:
I'm looking at kits now. Trying to decide if I want the MAP 5862 Ball Bearing or the Vargas Stage 2. Which would you recommend? How do they compare?

The map turbo is making that power on race gas. I'm not that impressed with it.

mtpavelka · Mar 15, 2016

Tune+ said:
Well they all almost take a nosedive in torque at 5200rpms. This is because of the factory head and camshafts. With a good ported head and some camshafts this thing will make torque all the way to redline with almost ANY turbo upgrade.

Not trying to derail the thread but a question about what you said there. What do you think a ported head, lets say MAP stage 5, with a stock turbo would look like?

Just thinking out loud from a foundation stand point. Build up from the ported head with a bigger turbo.

Tune+ · Mar 15, 2016

Edkiefer said:
The Full-Race Twin Scroll 7163EFR seems impressive for its size, spools fast .
The Vargus 2 seems like something holding it back from fast spool, at least from a turbo size view, its one of smallest ?
It could also be not loading engine low enough on dyno to i guess .

The Vargas, even though it is in a stock frame configuration, it is a decently size turbo in there. The spool characteristics are based on the turbine housing design and the wheel sizes. The wheel sizes are great, however because you are working with the stock frame you are limited to what you can do. It is definitely not small in anyway.

stang77 said:
I'm looking at kits now. Trying to decide if I want the MAP 5862 Ball Bearing or the Vargas Stage 2. Which would you recommend? How do they compare?

If you are going to go with a MAP kit you would want to go with a 5558 Ball Bearing to get decent spool. I am waiting for a customer to get on the dyno with his 5558BB setup so I can do the overlay comparisons. The 5558 spools about 500rpms faster than the 5858/5862.

Joe_Stang said:
The map turbo is making that power on race gas. I'm not that impressed with it.

Don't look at the power, this is only for spool comparison sake. I chose the graphs with the BEST spool for each turbo. I also tried to use graphs with 400-500whp for torque comparison. I made 500whp on the MAP 5862 about 5 dynopulls later on the same day as the graph above.

mtpavelka said:
Not trying to derail the thread but a question about what you said there. What do you think a ported head, lets say MAP stage 5, with a stock turbo would look like?

Just thinking out loud from a foundation stand point. Build up from the ported head with a bigger turbo.

Like trash, the turbo can't keep up with the new high flowing head. You would want to do a turbo upgrade before doing any head work. I'm tuning a ported head/stock turbo car right now and it can barely hold 17psi at redline.

stang77 · Mar 15, 2016

Joe_Stang said:
The map turbo is making that power on race gas. I'm not that impressed with it.

According to MAP's website they provide a tune file that is good for 390whp. Any idea what tune file comes with the kit from Vargas? I'm leaning more towards Vargas because it's direct bolt on. Don't want to replace existing intake/downpipe.

Tune+ · Mar 15, 2016

stang77 said:
According to MAP's website they provide a tune file that is good for 390whp. Any idea what tune file comes with the kit from Vargas? I'm leaning more towards Vargas because it's direct bolt on. Don't want to replace existing intake/downpipe.

You won't get a tune file with the MAP turbo kit. I used to supply it and when we separated I didn't leave any tune files for the turbo kit as each big turbo car should be individually tuned as there are too many variables that can't make every car perform exactly the same. Same thing goes for the Vargas Stage 2, there will be no tune file included as each car should be tuned for their modifications, location, and fuel.

stang77 · Mar 15, 2016

Tune+ said:
You won't get a tune file with the MAP turbo kit. I used to supply it and when we separated I didn't leave any tune files for the turbo kit as each big turbo car should be individually tuned as there are too many variables that can't make every car perform exactly the same. Same thing goes for the Vargas Stage 2, there will be no tune file included as each car should be tuned for their modifications, location, and fuel.

OK. That's understandable.

stang77 · Mar 15, 2016

Tune+ said:
You won't get a tune file with the MAP turbo kit. I used to supply it and when we separated I didn't leave any tune files for the turbo kit as each big turbo car should be individually tuned as there are too many variables that can't make every car perform exactly the same. Same thing goes for the Vargas Stage 2, there will be no tune file included as each car should be tuned for their modifications, location, and fuel.

So I assume that the customer would install the turbo and send you a log on whatever file he/she as last using?

Tune+ · Mar 15, 2016

stang77 said:
So I assume that the customer would install the turbo and send you a log on whatever file he/she as last using?

They would need to purchase an E-tune from me in order to have a file created for the new turbo. You aren't going to be able to use this turbo on any off the shelf tune.

Thinking about going big turbo? Spool Data.

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