Stuck on Manifold choice Sniper vs. 302

MyLilPony · Jul 30, 2017

ok that vacuum line fixed a little. LTFT up to .797 and .813 from .789 and .805 under WOT. Looked at my old logs pre-Boss Manifold and LTFT was at .992 to 1

I am now venting the Purge valve and not seeing an CEL. Top right port is still brake boost and lower right port is vacuum block leading to Boost controller and the BOV.

3 logs inside
http://www.datazap.me/u/mylilpony/vacuum-leak-hunting?log=0&data=1

Davepurp · Jul 31, 2017

Hey Guys

I just swapped out for a boss 302 manifold as well in my procharged GT,

I am super early on my tune revisions from the procharged manifold expert [MENTION=20966]diablomatt[/MENTION] so I dont know if any of this information could be helpful in my log for a comparison not to mention that our setups are drastically different, but didnt think it could hurt for some sort of comparison since it was readily available

http://datazap.me/u/davepurp/boss-302-1st-tune?log=0&data=8&mark=3657

I also setup my Vaccum Lines similar to Mylilpony, Purge Valve on left, Brake Booster Top Right, and Procharger Vacuum block bottom Right

is it my understanding this is not correct?

[MENTION=15176]MyLilPony[/MENTION] have you experience any rev hang since your install? I noticed it with mine, swapped my Purge valve vaccuum line and it seemed to go away.

MyLilPony · Jul 31, 2017

I checked injectors today using carb cleaner and water at idle. Slowly rotated the injectors while spraying to see if I would get a reaction, nothing. Sprayed down the pipes and all seams around the IM with water and carb cleaner and never got a reaction. Tried a soapy water test too around the boost pipes and nothing.

I looked over every log since I put the manifold on and under WOT I have never seen better than .844 under WOT. Wouldn't the tuner see this as an issue? I know someone else using the same tuner, same set up as me and is at 1 solid under WOT. Wonder why this has never been brought up?!

MyLilPony · Jul 31, 2017

Davepurp said:
Hey Guys

I just swapped out for a boss 302 manifold as well in my procharged GT,

I am super early on my tune revisions from the procharged manifold expert [MENTION=20966]diablomatt[/MENTION] so I dont know if any of this information could be helpful in my log for a comparison not to mention that our setups are drastically different, but didnt think it could hurt for some sort of comparison since it was readily available

http://datazap.me/u/davepurp/boss-302-1st-tune?log=0&data=8&mark=3657

I also setup my Vaccum Lines similar to Mylilpony, Purge Valve on left, Brake Booster Top Right, and Procharger Vacuum block bottom Right

is it my understanding this is not correct?

[MENTION=15176]MyLilPony[/MENTION] have you experience any rev hang since your install? I noticed it with mine, swapped my Purge valve vaccuum line and it seemed to go away.

I haven't ever had rev hang issues. I have a hypothesis I am going to test here shortly

So when I put the manifold on I was under the assumption having an extra port on the IM after the Purge and Brake booster was connected was a good thing and I could use it for the vacuum block. After seeing your log and we have the same LTFT at WOT with a similar set up only your hoses are flipped I am changing my mid a bit.

I think having the vacuum block directly connected may be causing the issue. Previously the vacuum block was part of the tree that was connected to the brake boost that and was spliced into that system. Not it has its own dedicated feed that I think may be causing the issue.

So what I am going to try now is to splice into the brake booster line and pull vacuum from there, then reconnect the Purge valve. Brake booster will be connected to the top port and the Purge to the lower, I will splice the vacuum block into the brake booster line.

I don't know if that will help as in the volume of air leaving the manifold will remain the same... But I have nothing to lose. If that works I will edit my video etc...

Stay tuned...

MyLilPony · Jul 31, 2017

In other words, I think this little guy is needed....

ProChargerTECH · Jul 31, 2017

MyLilPony said:
Factor 1 Wastgate...
I watched the boost gauge to ensure it kept building boost and just like always the gate creeps open at 10psi as set (5500) and builds to about 11.5 at 7700. So there is no drop in boost or flat lining of boost all the way to 7700... it merely slows down to peak... If boost was dropping or not building I would say it is the wastegate, but since it is still climbing after it opens I don't think it is the WG.

I never like running a wastegate with a blower... for one simple reason.

The more air you "vent" or "bleed" off....

The drive power it takes to turn the belt goes up exponentially.
(just ask all the guys with broken front cranks with wastegate blowers)

If you want to see an example of what I am talking about.
Take a peek at my youtube (Search Erik Radzins)
And look at the video of the HPTuners mustang. (it has a gate on it)

Look at the power "curve" as the pulley goes down. (boost up)
And the gate bleeds off more pressure.

If I ran a gate (which I never will) I wouldn't bleed more then 2-3 psi max.
(in which case there isn't much point)

MyLilPony · Jul 31, 2017

ProChargerTECH said:
I never like running a wastegate with a blower... for one simple reason.

The more air you "vent" or "bleed" off....

The drive power it takes to turn the belt goes up exponentially.
(just ask all the guys with broken front cranks with wastegate blowers)

If you want to see an example of what I am talking about.
Take a peek at my youtube (Search Erik Radzins)
And look at the video of the HPTuners mustang. (it has a gate on it)

Look at the power "curve" as the pulley goes down. (boost up)
And the gate bleeds off more pressure.

If I ran a gate (which I never will) I wouldn't bleed more then 2-3 psi max.
(in which case there isn't much point)

Is it the 1000hp PC video?

Why would there be an exponentially higher increase in drive power because of the gate? I am only on a 4.38 pulley which I would assume is ~ a 15 psi pulley at 7500 rpm.

I would assume the amount of energy needed to make 15# would be the same as the boost curve is linear on a PC. I am merely eliminating the excess boost I don't need. I wouldn't think the blower would need to exert any extra effort; it shouldn't know the difference since the blower would put out the same boost level irrespective if the system was closed or vented.

Just trying to get a better understanding of why no wastegate. I am loving this low end torque the 4.38 gives me.

On the vacuum line issue, I have tried a couple of reroutes and nothing has solve the LTFT issue. I have one more reroute I am going to attempt now. We will see...If that doesn't work, I will try locking the wastgate and see if the WG is causing the issue. I don't think it is as the LTFT issue is present while the gate is closed.

To [MENTION=27384]Davepurp[/MENTION] is this reroute doesn't fix my issue then there is nothing wrong with my original line routing.

dubster99 · Jul 31, 2017

MyLilPony said:
In other words, I think this little guy is needed....

I left that stock vacuum/check valve block on my setup and capped what wasn't being used. I haven't had mine on a dyno, but it certainly doesn't feel like what your dyno shows. Pulls hard all the way to 7500.

MyLilPony · Jul 31, 2017

dubster99 said:
I left that stock vacuum/check valve block on my setup and capped what wasn't being used. I haven't had mine on a dyno, but it certainly doesn't feel like what your dyno shows. Pulls hard all the way to 7500.

i just switched back to the check valve and routed the hoses like I have seen others I have managed to find pictures of. Didn't change anything even after a KAM reset.

I am going to load my race tune and see if it wipes clean everything and maybe triggers a clearing to start the KAM process from scratch. If that does nothing I will know 2 things for sure. The lines are fine how I had them originally set up and in their current layout and 2 the wastegate is not causing any of the issues.

From there I am pulling the manifold out and replacing all the seals.

MyLilPony · Jul 31, 2017

Scratch that, just read the seals are built into the manifold...looks like fuel rail and injectors then...

markmurfie · Aug 1, 2017

I just want to point out dave's LTFT are in percentage and yours are based on lambda. his .78 is not the same as your .78-.81.

I would have thought you would have found something by now with this kind of trims. I would do some compression test just to make sure your engine is in ok shape. I really dont want to think your tune is the cause. Maybe ask your tuner if they even noticed long term fuel trims.

MyLilPony · Aug 1, 2017

markmurfie said:
I just want to point out dave's LTFT are in percentage and yours are based on lambda. his .78 is not the same as your .78-.81.

I would have thought you would have found something by now with this kind of trims. I would do some compression test just to make sure your engine is in ok shape. I really dont want to think your tune is the cause. Maybe ask your tuner if they even noticed long term fuel trims.

I did and they didn't notice them until I pointed them out. They then said, looks like you have a Boost leak...kinda depressed about that miss since it has been present since day one... :(

Looked over all my logs, and the issue showed up immediately after the boss swap. My first log shows .813/.852. Second .828/.844 third .852/.805 fourth .859/.805. Now .797/.813.... (summary view of logs, I have at least 20+ in that time period)

I may pull the whole manifold off today and re-install it from scratch. - EDIT. Going to start with re-seating and moving the injectors around to see if that helps. I may also take the spacers down a little to put a little more pressure on the injectors to seat them more firmly

MyLilPony · Aug 1, 2017

[MENTION=16352]markmurfie[/MENTION]

I just got back a revised tune and the top the adjustment made was to the top end cam adjustments to help solve for the power top off.

While I waited I went ahead and added rubber spacers to the injectors. They are not moving and are seated firmly now.

Below is the most recent data log

http://www.datazap.me/u/mylilpony/new-tune-and-spacers-added-injectors?log=0&data=1-16-17

markmurfie · Aug 1, 2017

That looks better. LTFT are .99, but STFT went from 1.02-1.04 to .93-.89. so still 10% rich. That's better than 20%.

Either you found some of the leak or the tune was that far off. Id say another revision and you will be even better.

MyLilPony · Aug 1, 2017

ProChargerTECH said:
I never like running a wastegate with a blower... for one simple reason.

The more air you "vent" or "bleed" off....

The drive power it takes to turn the belt goes up exponentially.
(just ask all the guys with broken front cranks with wastegate blowers)

If you want to see an example of what I am talking about.
Take a peek at my youtube (Search Erik Radzins)
And look at the video of the HPTuners mustang. (it has a gate on it)

Look at the power "curve" as the pulley goes down. (boost up)
And the gate bleeds off more pressure.

If I ran a gate (which I never will) I wouldn't bleed more then 2-3 psi max.
(in which case there isn't much point)

So let's say I split the difference and close the wastegate and run pulley only. The middle ground from 4.75 to 4.38 is the 4.5 pulley correct? I do not belive you make a 4.63 in 8 rib. So if the max impeller speed is 60799 at 7700 rpm, do you know what amount of Boost that would be at 750ft above sea level? (Dallas). I want to stay below 12.5. Gracias [MENTION=11041]ProChargerTECH[/MENTION] !

Stuck on Manifold choice Sniper vs. 302

MyLilPony

Naw It's Stock

Davepurp

Dave

MyLilPony

Naw It's Stock

MyLilPony

Naw It's Stock

MyLilPony

Naw It's Stock

ProChargerTECH

Well-Known Member

MyLilPony

Naw It's Stock

dubster99

Well-Known Member

MyLilPony

Naw It's Stock

MyLilPony

Naw It's Stock

markmurfie

Well-Known Member

MyLilPony

Naw It's Stock

MyLilPony

Naw It's Stock

markmurfie

Well-Known Member

MyLilPony

Naw It's Stock

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