GT350 vs. Z/28

Detroit or Die!!!

Chevy needs to preview something, Ford is continuously going upside their head. Right now, a preview of the 6th Gen over a year out will KILL the remaining sales. The 20% off sale hit them hard for sure, there is obviously less units on the lot. Remember they did have 30,000 unsold vehicles when you tally'd up the production/sales numbers. If they do show a 6th Gen, the 5th Gen's remaining sales lead will vanish.

What about a n additional package for the z28? I've asked around but nobody has even looked into anything Camaro. They could show it now and it get delayed... then sales would continue to tank for the next 18-22 months while lots get filled.

Could we see an LS9 Camaro to take the platform out? We are talking a $90,000 Camaro that weighs 4300lbs. Probably still sporting a 1.9l blower.

I know Chevy has something set aside, I'm just not sure it's anything z28 or Camaro. A peek at the 6th Gen now will see sales dropped significantly. They only sold 6000 cars last month, even with the fire sale. They were likely in danger of selling less than the Chally. Oh god, what would Fenwick say then?

For some reason, the good people at Chevrolet's Social Media want me banned from ALL Automotive Forums. These are the same people that had me banned at Camaro5 for warning about a sales slump after the 3rd year of sales. I also warned of a refresh around that time period. I called attention to the ZL1's 4150lbs curb weight, over a year before it was official... the 600+ HP GT500 (they laughed in 2010, shit themselves in 2012).

One of the main voices that were adamant on the legality of the z28 in road racing...

...doesn't want me to post on the internet anymore :(

I know this doesn't really mean much but, a certain GM employee has already begun the back peddling from the "It's not going to be heavier" comment for the 6th Gen.

Are we going to see an actual lightweight Camaro n Detroit? With the C7 already pushing 3500lbs in All Aluminum and a 3.6 ATS already just over that... it will be difficult.

They could always fatten the 5th Gen up right before it is discontinued. Then in 2016, a 3970lbs LT1 Camaro WILL be lighter. The 2015 Camaro is 3935lbs for a manual already, almost 4000lbs in a automatic.

They also DO NOT have a naturally aspirated engine to compete with the Flat Snake...

Edit: GOOD NEWS for Ford in CTSCC

The z28 was docked another 7mm of restriction before the season ended. Reports suggest that the mighty LS7 will take yet another 5mm of restriction on in the near future. Right now, the z28 uses a 68mm R-Tube (down from 75mm, down from 80mm). The Boss 302 used a 57mm... Both used a 90mm Throttle Body.

The z28 will not be a dominant this year. In fact, that large restriction will likely cause engine trouble.

Norm Peterson said:

As I understand it, MRC programming is pretty damn complex, so what (if any) opportunities are likely to exist for individuals or even small teams to tweak transient handling via damping adjustments? Or is everybody but maybe a couple of top-shelf teams going to be stuck with however the OE programming is set up? A second question involves curiosity about what the damping(s) would default to should either power or communication to one or more of the dampers be [abruptly] lost while at speed.

I hope that anybody messing with CC brakes remains aware of the potential for damaging them during any "routine" maintenance. I know that the repair industry is aware of this (poke around over at Brake & Front End's site, I've read about this in their print magazine).


Norm

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I will make every attempt to communicate this to all GT350 owners. I believe most of my efforts here have raised awareness about this very issue in my z28 crusade. I see a lot of people just "Knowing" that CCB and MRC is not permitted in racing... it use to not be that way. Now that these are coming our way, we can provide an intelligent response to those that may plan on swapping them out for racing. This could have been helpful to z28 owners but they took it as me bringing up stupid issues... tirelessly...

I will keep bringing this up as much as possible Norm, thanks buddy... I'll keep digging as well.

Trackaholic said:

Good thing you aren't a Porsche fanatic.

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I like them a lot, not enough to buy one for me personally. I bought an '83 911 for my wife's 30th and she told me to return it. She said "VW?".

I have heard a lot of stories about their split personality and I have always felt uncomfortable in them.

Backorder said:

If it's an evolution of 66 and 2000 then it is going for the jugular and I would hope it would be very Z28 like in the aspect it would be mostly stripped down. No rear seats, no sound deadening, etc...also would wonder how limited it would be as they only made 300 of the 2000 cobra Rs right?

It'll be interesting for sure. I'll be looking at the regular GT350 since it'll already be more than I can handle, but I can't wait to see which route ford takes with the R


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Oh man, good question! I never asked anything about production numbers for either GT350 or GT350R.

I have heard weight figures from 3500lbs to 3750lbs. I am told the GT350 (from A Pillar up) is the direction of the future Mustang. This 3500-3600lbs curb weight is speculated to come from the cradle/bumper support area. It is far fetch but, if the GT350 ends up shedding a decent amount of weight, I believe the S550 will evolve into a lighter GT350 eventually. I think 3500lbs is a bit too much...

Keep this in mind though, what if Ford just sheds some of that 3705lbs off just by merely using a Base GT to start from. The Base GT's are already in the 3640-3660lbs range. Getting a 3550lbs GT350 might just be a bag of tricks coupled with some expensive, extensive weight loss somewhere else.

Just keep an eye on stuff like that...

What if the GT350's use 10 gallon fuel tanks instead of 16? That would register as a weight loss... but would it actually be lighter? What if hefting the GT up with some Luxury equipment was just to roll out a lighter de-contented GT350? I hope it isn't like that... I will be mad at Ford.

thePill said:

Keep this in mind though, what if Ford just sheds some of that 3705lbs off just by merely using a Base GT to start from. The Base GT's are already in the 3640-3660lbs range. Getting a 3550lbs GT350 might just be a bag of tricks coupled with some expensive, extensive weight loss somewhere else.

Just keep an eye on stuff like that...

What if the GT350's use 10 gallon fuel tanks instead of 16? That would register as a weight loss... but would it actually be lighter? What if hefting the GT up with some Luxury equipment was just to roll out a lighter de-contented GT350? I hope it isn't like that... I will be mad at Ford.

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I really hope they don't do shady things like that. As it is, I don't have respect for GM because of the bailout and 75+ recalls in a year, I don't like dodge because they have a bad history of crap products (for the people I know) and the bailout...I'm proud of what ford was able to do to make it through a crisis and not have to file bankruptcy...I respect what hey have done with the brand but if they start usin trickery like that in a high $ special model, my respect for them will decrease quite a bit especially since I'm so excited about this car and plan to order it as soon as I can...I'm honestly not looking at anything else...there is nothing else this unique for the price and I don't even know all the specs! Lol


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Gonna go a bit off topic here...but I like two things about this specific page over on camaro6 http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=384527&page=9

1) I'm glad to see so many camaro fans giving props to the GT350, I like seeing people play nice and it makes every conversation or debate that much better when everyone respects one another.

2) Of course everyone's fav "thePill" is mentioned! Your fandom just can't get enough! They love you! Lol I especially like the comment about "I'm suprised he hasn't been banned from every automotive forum" one lol

Personally, I take everyone on forums with a grain of salt. I think there is a bit of truth to some of your points but at the same time everything is speculation. I can see why some may not like you though, your wording can be a bit harsh...but that's you and it's what makes reading your posts so entertaining! You have passion when you write and whether it's true or not, it's entertaining to me [emoji106]

Addition: I would probably hate you if I was a camaro guy lol...
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Blah... Let 'em whine... Him and I are one in the same, both up late trying to get info before the show. He's just mad im not bound by corporate because I like the freedom to type the F-word.

Anyway, I don't think Chevy is doing much beyond the Volt and CTS-V. This is a Detroit Performance themed autoshow. Not performing this year?

What about an LS9 5th Gen?

The Camaro Zora...

thePill said:

Blah... Let 'em whine... Him and I are one in the same, both up late trying to get info before the show. He's just mad im not bound by corporate because I like the freedom to type the F-word.

Anyway, I don't think Chevy is doing much beyond the Volt and CTS-V. This is a Detroit Performance themed autoshow. Not performing this year?

What about an LS9 5th Gen?

The Camaro Zora...

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I think the sun has set on the 5th Gen, they wouldn't waste money to put the 20,000+ dollar LS9 into a dead platform and certify it, CARB it, etc.

I think GM knows they've lost the glory for this NAIAS, and are hoping to make up by dominating the rest of the auto shows (Chicago, New York, etc).

Then again GM is trying to deal with the fact the Z06 hasn't exactly been a home run, the only place it's been able to claim glory is VIR. Otherwise the Z06 is showing itself inferior, or at least marginally equal, to the Viper, slower in a straight line (where the MAJORITY OF ACTUAL PEOPLE RACE) than the "Hellcraps/Hellokittys", and the Mustang has outsold the Camaro for the last two months even with a 20% off tag on a lot of Camaro models.

GM is facing Federal trials, their products are underwhelming and they're making promises they cannot keep. Bad mojo for General Motors.

1320' said:

I think the sun has set on the 5th Gen, they wouldn't waste money to put the 20,000+ dollar LS9 into a dead platform and certify it, CARB it, etc.

I think GM knows they've lost the glory for this NAIAS, and are hoping to make up by dominating the rest of the auto shows (Chicago, New York, etc).

Then again GM is trying to deal with the fact the Z06 hasn't exactly been a home run, the only place it's been able to claim glory is VIR. Otherwise the Z06 is showing itself inferior, or at least marginally equal, to the Viper, slower in a straight line (where the MAJORITY OF ACTUAL PEOPLE RACE) than the "Hellcraps/Hellokittys", and the Mustang has outsold the Camaro for the last two months even with a 20% off tag on a lot of Camaro models.

GM is facing Federal trials, their products are underwhelming and they're making promises they cannot keep. Bad mojo for General Motors.

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i agree with what you are saying.i think in the past the PILL said something like,with all of the things going on at gm alot of money wont go into the next CRAPMARO.I really think that have some truth to it.as far as the z06 goes,its junk.check this site out on z06.PeterMJ's Corvette C7 Stingray and Z06 Exposed

:lol::cheers:

I can't believe no one put this in here yet!

http://www.stangtv.com/news/exclusive-gt350r-makes-debut-at-daytona-roar-before-the-24/

FATTBoss said:

I can't believe no one put this in here yet!



http://www.stangtv.com/news/exclusive-gt350r-makes-debut-at-daytona-roar-before-the-24/

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It's in the GT350 thread...or at least the pics are.


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The GT350R should be overkill at this point if what they say is true. It would be a total handful. The only thing that I question is, you cannot have a CTSCC entry without homologation unless the "R" designation is now sole property of IMSA. Even the Laguna Seca needed at least 500 sold to the public. It will be interesting to see how IMSA and Ford come to terms on homologation. With all the waivers with other cars, I would surely hope Ford got a pass.

Now my source makes sense, why does there need to be an additional model? If the GT350 can handle a z28 on a more livable tire, why add another R for amatures to skip around the course on open track days. I would definitely go for a dedicated "R", especially with the GT but look, I'm hearing the GT350 is trying to break into the 1:35.99 at Laguna... Do you understand how fast that is? If it's not just jibber-jabber. It could be running a 1:39 and they are set on breaking 1:36 FLAT. Even if it's in the 1:36, that is EXTREMELY fast for $50-$60,000.

I also heard the the "$53,000" GT350 can match the current Boss 302R in equal rubber and optioned right, that's under 1:35 and way too fast for that price range... The 350 just seems like it should be in IMSA GT with the C7 Corvette, not with the M4, 99whatever and z28. Not with those lap times... The Boss did Laguna in 1:39.5, with the GT considerably faster than the Boss, a 1:38-1:39 isn't far fetched... A GT PP in race rubber will be in the 1.37's and right behind a z28.... So, I can definitely see a 1:37 out of a GT350. (Edit: Motor Trend/Randy Pobst did a 1:37.8 in the z28. Not what I expected...)

Anything faster than 1:37 flat is gettin serious.... If they break 1:36 I'll be in total disbelief. The z28 ran a mid-1:37 I believe... It seems like it should have been faster but they claim it isn't the z28's track on C5 so...

Is the aluminum cradle confirmed? I am hearing that was already official. I never heard that but admit, I do skim. Can they break 3600lbs? I can't even begin to guesstimate the losses by changing to aluminum.

Apparently, the Tremec is a compact, lightweight (or lighter than a 6060) competitor to the Global Getrag. I do not have any specs on the transmission at this time. I am working on that tonight... I was told that the GT350 was going to Mexico months and months ago but never heard anything about its arrival. This took me off guard...

The GT350 will follow the "Steed for every need" credo and will offer lots of options.

As with the Boss 302R, the GT350R came first and the GT350 was spawned from the racecar. I favor this approach in the stead of the Camaro's OEM to racetard angle. The s28 looks hilarious in those 18's and those stupid Autozone fender flare stickers. I imagine the whole S550 was developed from the racer.

I am still hoping they are made to homologate at least 500. It is the rules and I think a specific GT350R be made available. The special Cobra R badge on the fender gives me hope that it will be an OEM car too. Would that make it a GT350R.R?

Man, Ford nailed it in Detroit... still hoping for a Cobra Roadster that was also done in secret. This is already a lot to handle...

So, we can see that the GT350R lost 130lbs over the GT350. I can't assume the GT350 is lighter than the GT PP with Recaro's. However, if Ford was ultra aggressive, the GT350 may have lost some weight too. Could we be looking at a 3550lbs GT350R? 130lbs from the 3705 gets you under 3600... This is as lightweight as a 4 seater gets.

thePill said:

Man, Ford nailed it in Detroit... still hoping for a Cobra Roadster that was also done in secret. This is already a lot to handle...

So, we can see that the GT350R lost 130lbs over the GT350. I can't assume the GT350 is lighter than the GT PP with Recaro's. However, if Ford was ultra aggressive, the GT350 may have lost some weight too. Could we be looking at a 3550lbs GT350R? 130lbs from the 3705 gets you under 3600... This is as lightweight as a 4 seater gets.

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i think this car will kill the z28.:lol::ford:

thePill said:

Man, Ford nailed it in Detroit... still hoping for a Cobra Roadster that was also done in secret. This is already a lot to handle...

So, we can see that the GT350R lost 130lbs over the GT350. I can't assume the GT350 is lighter than the GT PP with Recaro's. However, if Ford was ultra aggressive, the GT350 may have lost some weight too. Could we be looking at a 3550lbs GT350R? 130lbs from the 3705 gets you under 3600... This is as lightweight as a 4 seater gets.

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The Ford Racing School posted on Facebook that the new GT350R is 500lbs lighter than the GT.

I think they've got the wrong info, or they really messed up and posted something they shouldn't, because that would make for a 3,200lb GT350R

1320' said:

The Ford Racing School posted on Facebook that the new GT350R is 500lbs lighter than the GT.

I think they've got the wrong info, or they really messed up and posted something they shouldn't, because that would make for a 3,200lb GT350R

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500lbs lighter!!! Man, that is too aggressive to be real... 3200lbs 2 door coupe with a 107 inch wheelbase is nearly impossible.

Holy sh!t! That might be accurate... That could give you a 3550lbs GT350 and a 3205lbs GT350R?

Waaaaay out of my talents reach and waaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond the z28. I'm also hearing it is SCCA/NASA compliant and will be represented in IMSA, FIA and PWC. That's a busy car...