S550 to S650 parts swap and interchangeability possibilities

[GenericNick]

So help me to understand the basics. How is this intended to work?
The trunk button is straight forward.

What does the dial do? The dial spins indefinitely so I don't understand its purpose that well

What does the top right button do?
What does the bottom right button do?

What is the intention for each of the buttons?

Do you want them to function literally as they do but for your car?

Or is there some alternate function you are looking to get from it?

The icons to the right of the switch, one of them will be lit up. When you spin the dial right, it changes to the icon below (and looping back). When you spin left, changes the icon up (And loops back).

The buttons on the right side, increase/decrease your dash/radio brightness. Up for increase, down for decrease

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[WolfMxbee]

So help me to understand the basics. How is this intended to work?
The trunk button is straight forward.

What does the dial do? The dial spins indefinitely so I don't understand its purpose that well

What does the top right button do?
What does the bottom right button do?

What is the intention for each of the buttons?

Do you want them to function literally as they do but for your car?

Or is there some alternate function you are looking to get from it?

Top right increases gauge brightness, bottom right decreases gauge brightness, the knob spins indefinitely cause it uses canbus, somehow the knob will change light modes but can spin forever and the newer sync 4 know what position it is in even if it spins forever, weird lol but yea i wanna maintain like stock function

 

[slonison]

The icons to the right of the switch, one of them will be lit up. When you spin the dial right, it changes to the icon below (and looping back). When you spin left, changes the icon up (And loops back).

The buttons on the right side, increase/decrease your dash/radio brightness. Up for increase, down for decrease

Top right increases gauge brightness, bottom right decreases gauge brightness, the knob spins indefinitely cause it uses canbus, somehow the knob will change light modes but can spin forever and the newer sync 4 know what position it is in even if it spins forever, weird lol but yea i wanna maintain like stock function

Thanks to both of you for your answers.

I noticed that the 2015-2023 vs 2024+ is

Fog Light Button: S550 only
Dial Off: Both
Dial Park: Both
Dial Auto: Both
Dial On: Both
Increase Brightness: Both
Decrease Brightness: Both
Open Trunk: S650 Only

How do you want to address the lack of a fog light button on the S650 unit?

Also, does the S550 dial spin indefinitely or is it like the S197 where it has a predefined rotation limit?
If it has a predefined rotation limit, would you be ok with the S650 retrofit having a pre-defined limit?

 

[WolfMxbee]

Thanks to both of you for your answers.

I noticed that the 2015-2023 vs 2024+ is

Fog Light Button: S550 only
Dial Off: Both
Dial Park: Both
Dial Auto: Both
Dial On: Both
Increase Brightness: Both
Decrease Brightness: Both
Open Trunk: S650 Only

How do you want to address the lack of a fog light button on the S650 unit?

Also, does the S550 dial spin indefinitely or is it like the S197 where it has a predefined rotation limit?
If it has a predefined rotation limit, would you be ok with the S650 retrofit having a pre-defined limit?

The s550 spins only at 4 points, wont spin indefinitely and the foglight I could always run a seperate switch for it

 

[bbowes9]

Figure I'll throw it out here but If at any point you need an s650 owner to look at anything I'd be happy to help in any free time I have.

 

[WolfMxbee]

Hope this helps but heres the connector info for both 2019 and 2024
2024: uses canbus instead of physical

2019 :

 

[ray=out]

Just stopping in to say that this is one of my favorite threads on this forum and that you(@WolfMxbee) are a mad scientist in the best way. And thumbs up for all the collaborative info from all the other guys contributing info to progress the integration.

Carry on.

 

[slonison]

Hope this helps but heres the connector info for both 2019 and 2024
2024: uses canbus instead of physical

2019 :

This is actually very helpful. I have an all data account as well. I have 2013 mustang and, ironically, the 2019 Ecoboost as well. It's what I used to retrofit the the s550 into the s197.

Alas, I don't have the s650 so that is very helpful.

Ironically I have a lot of experience retrofitting canbus backwards to analog. I have been canbus sniffing the s197 for the last 6 months and logged about 80% of the can bus signals. I also retrofitted the 6g Camaro wheel into the 5g Camaro and this is an example where they went from analog in 5g to Lin bus (similar to can bus) in 6g. I built a black box that would mimic the IPC and trick the integrated chip into waking up, listen to the Lin bus signals and translate it back to analog for the 5g to understand. It's also where I realized that just redesigning the chip to fit the newer gen housing is just 100x easier for something like this.

So in that instance, I think the best course of action is going to be designing a new PCB that simply mimics the analog nature of the s550 on a PCB that fits the s650 housing.

I've already identified the connector in my past experience which is:
https://www.te.com/en/product-1456989-1.html

Available at
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/1456989-1/10478278

So it's just about setting up the header to appropriately fit in the back of the housing.

I have more questions regarding the steering wheel but let's just pause that for later.

Here, I am retrofitting the s550 SCCM to work with an s197 plug and play so that you don't have have make any other modifications to hardware. I design the board so it fits right in the modern housing.

Tonight, I'm going to see if I can get the s650 housing open and start mapping out the board. I use graphing paper with 1mm squares so I can get pretty accurate to the 0.5mm

 

[WolfMxbee]

So I may be scrapping the 2024 Gateway Idea, I was talking to a buddy of mine and he pointed out that If I were to seperate the HS2 and HS3 and reroute it to the 2024 Gateway, in theory everything I meantioned could work, however there are 2 issues, although everything I would want to work may work with the steering controls and drive modes finally be able to be displayed with the correct "sport" "track" and "drag" visual display, he said its pointless in doing so because I may lose pcm functionality by seperating the gateway since everything goes to the gateway module and branches out from there, second, even if it does work, the next hurdle will be able to access the gateway for forscan/trouble codes as the gateway wouldn't be able to share the same OBD port as the S550s, I could wire in 2 but would possibly raise issues for state inspection etc. For me personally like I mentioned before, when i had my stock S550 interior, I would always only keep it in Sport and my drive was always enjoyable, so now onto phase 2 which would be the more pratical and actual physically working approach because lets say I do make the drive modes visually show up and it changes the gauges to match, its not actually going to change how the car reacts, because the S650, the apim and IPC connects to the abs module and the EPAS through canbus where ours does but doesn't, it goes to the BCM before connecting to those other modules where S650 doesn't, so I may disable drive modes screen since its blank anyways, heres a pic for reference of what I see

Lmao says "normal" on every option, which is why I may turn it off because it isn't able to pull S650 info that ties into the ABS Module and EPAS from a S650 where this data is shared, not soley in a dedicated module alone, makes sense? So I found a good spot to do a mod in right here

Cortex racing sells a canbus harness for the power steering to be able to adjust it with a knob since the S650 can runs on a new FD can circuit that just isn't worth the lack of info and very long reverse engineering process, so I read of S197 owners putting the S550 racks in them and having a rotating knob to adjust steering feel for track use which is perfect for me, there is also a guy who put a s197 rack in his S550 on youtube for drifting with a electric hydraulic pump to still maintain electric power steering but its more direct because its still hydraulic, second i mentioned before that there is a switch behind the air filter assembly that is wired in a loop, and disconnected will disable stability and traction completely hence my traction switch, third I ordered a throttle controller for $50 (c&l black edition) to try out, If it works perfect, I'll order the banks pedal monster with the safety addition if it fails, it will automatically revert to stock as a safety measure so I dont lose throttle pedal

 

[zackmd1]

Stupid question…. Have you tried just plugging in a 2024 gateway module in place of your original and just seeing what happens? The gateway module just listens for CAN messages and routes them to the appropriate bus… Sounds like the S650 might be using the same messages just on a different bus than the S550 module is expecting. S650 module might just plug in and work… If not, I imagine the ABS module would need to be swapped.

 

[slonison]

So I've completely deconstructed the headlight switch. The good news it's, the system is a bit easier than I anticipated.. The bad news it's, it's going to take a bit more than I originally anticipated and a bit longer. There's two road blocks, one bigger than the other

The first is that because they share this design across multiple models, they made the side buttons hot swappable. The trunk button may be consistent but the far right is not. They use a mezzanine connector that is board to board. It is the black one that connects those two PCBs. The problem is, it is from irisoele japan and I cannot find a single public source for it. It is the same connector that they used for the turn signal and wiper stalks in the s550. And try as I may for the last 4 months. No amount of emails to the manufacturer has gotten me anywhere.

It's not the end of the world but means that we need two custom boards instead of one with a new mezzanine connector (trying to scavange the old one is too difficult, at least for me).

The second problem is the infinitely spinning dial. It uses and optic sensor to detect the light changes which translates to a setting change, and all changes are managed by an IC. We can figure this out, it's just going to take more time. I will be out of the country for about a minth so just hang tight till I get back.

 

[bbowes9]

For anyone else looking at that suede wrap here are my results! I went with the charcoal gray color.

 

[WolfMxbee]

For anyone else looking at that suede wrap here are my results! I went with the charcoal gray color.

That looks so good!! It actually doesn't look as bright as i thought it would like a light gray, also the red accents with the red stitching looks awesome

 

[WolfMxbee]

I ordered a forged carbon steering wheel trim thats been at customs for a month already, but I have some new headlights coming in, I bought the Morimoto LF414's, I use to have morimoto XB till they got discontinued and loved them so I know I wont be disappointed but I'll be getting rid of the ebay headlights, my girl is not working at the moment so I been covering her bills and car payment hence the slow down of S650 Retrofitting, next plans are still... electronic calipers, rear interior trim like all the plastics, I actually like the S650 plastic package tray because I may wrap in carbon fiber or just keep it plastic

 

[bbowes9]

That looks so good!! It actually doesn't look as bright as i thought it would like a light gray, also the red accents with the red stitching looks awesome

Thank you! I still haven’t finished the red stitching lol, I’ve been dyeing that red and only have some of the front done on that. Thanks for the idea on the suede, I would’ve never even found something like that without this thread

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