Vibration after swapping carrier

[bubbasneed]

Hey everyone, I am hoping someone can help me out. I have a 2018 Mustang GT with the 10 spd automatic. My car came from the factory with 3.15 gears and I wanted 3.55. I bought a used carrier from a junkyard that has 20,xxx miles on it. It is out of a 2016 eco boost automatic performance pack car.

The flanges looked a little different but I didn’t swap them since they were both out of an automatic car. I can post pictures but I currently have any but the 2018 3.15 flange is black and had two small slots. The 2016 3.55 had two much larger slots. The 2018 drive shaft bolted up to the 2016 flange without issue.

I have a moderate vibration between 50-80 mph. It not terrible but enough to annoy me and it wasn’t there before the swap. I am wondering if I should try to rotate the drive shaft or if I need to swap the pinion flange. I read something about it may be out of phase.

Has anyone experienced anything similar or know of a fix? Thanks in advance for any help.

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[JohnVallo]

Hey everyone, I am hoping someone can help me out. I have a 2018 Mustang GT with the 10 spd automatic. My car came from the factory with 3.15 gears and I wanted 3.55. I bought a used carrier from a junkyard that has 20,xxx miles on it. It is out of a 2016 eco boost automatic performance pack car.

The flanges looked a little different but I didn’t swap them since they were both out of an automatic car. I can post pictures but I currently have any but the 2018 3.15 flange is black and had two small slots. The 2016 3.55 had two much larger slots. The 2018 drive shaft bolted up to the 2016 flange without issue.

I have a moderate vibration between 50-80 mph. It not terrible but enough to annoy me and it wasn’t there before the swap. I am wondering if I should try to rotate the drive shaft or if I need to swap the pinion flange. I read something about it may be out of phase.

Has anyone experienced anything similar or know of a fix? Thanks in advance for any help.

Pretty common for this to happen, I have dealt with several like this.
Pre 2018, Ford used a different technique to get the driveshaft/rear-axle in balance.
The newer zero balanced Black painted pinion flange was introduced on 2018 models.
Yes, you could swap the pinion flange, but you may want to keep the original carrier intact.

If it were me, since the vibration isn't very bad, this is what I would try.
Leave both carriers intact, and work on the driveshaft balance:
Mark all 6 bolt-holes/positions (1-6) on the pinion flange (I use permanent number stamps, but you could use a silver sharpie)
Mark 1 place on the driveshaft at bolt-hole #1 on the flange, for your matching reference.
Rotate the driveshaft 180 degrees from where it is now,(i.e. #4 bolt-hole) then test drive.
It will either be Better, the Same, or Worse.
BETTER
If it's better, and satisfactory, your done.
If its better but not satisfactory, you can try rotating driveshaft 60 degrees both directions. (i.e. #3, or #5)

THE SAME OR WORSE
In this case, I would either:
1. try the double hose-clamp balancing method.
2. swap the pinion flanges
3. Buy a new 2018 pinion flange, (To keep the original intact, -you may want to sell it, or put it back in someday-)

 

[bubbasneed]

Pretty common for this to happen, I have dealt with several like this.
Pre 2018, Ford used a different technique to get the driveshaft/rear-axle in balance.
The newer zero balanced Black painted pinion flange was introduced on 2018 models.
Yes, you could swap the pinion flange, but you may want to keep the original carrier intact.

If it were me, since the vibration isn't very bad, this is what I would try.
Leave both carriers intact, and work on the driveshaft balance:
Mark all 6 bolt-holes/positions (1-6) on the pinion flange (I use permanent number stamps, but you could use a silver sharpie)
Mark 1 place on the driveshaft at bolt-hole #1 on the flange, for your matching reference.
Rotate the driveshaft 180 degrees from where it is now,(i.e. #4 bolt-hole) then test drive.
It will either be Better, the Same, or Worse.
BETTER
If it's better, and satisfactory, your done.
If its better but not satisfactory, you can try rotating driveshaft 60 degrees both directions. (i.e. #3, or #5)

THE SAME OR WORSE
In this case, I would either:
1. try the double hose-clamp balancing method.
2. swap the pinion flanges
3. Buy a new 2018 pinion flange, (To keep the original intact, -you may want to sell it, or put it back in someday-)

John, thanks for the info. I rotated my drive shaft 180 last night and I am going to test drive it today to see the results. I definitely want to keep my original carrier intact just in case I can’t get this figured out I will just put it back.

I will report back my findings after the test drive. I may try all 6 positions if I have too. I will have to lookup the double hose clamp balancing method I have never heard of that. I may get a 2018 flange if rotating doesn’t help. I will attach the pictures of the two flanges as well. The cleaner one is the 2018 and the rusted one is the 2016 3.55.

 

[JohnVallo]

If you're interested in how Ford recommends you do the hose clamp method here it is:

 

[bubbasneed]

If you're interested in how Ford recommends you do the hose clamp method here it is:

John thanks for posting the instructions for the hose clamp balancing. I rotated the drive shaft 180 and the vibration is gone. Thanks for your help.

 

[bubbasneed]

Well I drove the car today and the vibration seems a little worse than it did originally. I am not sure why it was fine Saturday when I took it for a test drive.

I am going to try rotating it 60 degrees from the original location and keep trying the different positions until I find the best one. If none of them are satisfactory then I will try the hose clamp balancing.

 

[bubbasneed]

Hey just an update I put my 3.15 back in and the vibration is gone. I did rotate the drive shaft 60 degrees from the original position (so this would be the third rotation) and the vibration was still there. I got tired of messing with it because each time I rotated the driveshaft I would have to drop the car from the stand and drive it around.For some reason I can't run my car on the the jack stands the car freaks out. My car has the smart and safety package with adaptive cc. I get ABS lights (even though i turned of traction control) cross traffic alerts, and I can't remember what else, it was like 4-5 alerts, the digital dash looked like a Christmas tree lit up. All the alerts went away once I drove the car. Due to this I didn't try the hose clamp method, it would have been a nightmare to adjust it.

One thing I noticed is when the 2018 3.15 housing is installed it is very hard to get the drive shaft out of the flange. I couldn't get it out until I started dropping the carrier, it was a tight fit. When the 2016 3.55 housing was installed it was very easy to get the drive shaft in and out of the flange. It almost seemed like the drive shaft was a little too short. I had to use the be bolts to pull it in to the flange. Maybe the 2018 flange is longer?

Now since having the 3.55's though I really do miss it and want to try again.
So I am weighing my options. I am not going to disassemble my original I want to keep that intact.
Option 1 Put a 2018 pinion flange on the 3.55. I assume this would fix it but I am not sure.
Option 2 Sell this carrier and try to find one out of a 2018 that has the correct flange already installed.
I am leaning toward option 2. I don't have the specialty tools to do the pinion swap.

I just wanted to give an update in case someone else was having a similar issue.

 

[bubbasneed]

@JohnVallo If I decide to put the 2018 pinion flange on the 2016 3.55 carrier do you know any tips or tricks? Does it need to go on a certain way or be clocked? I read the instructions for the Ford Performance pinion flange swap and it said to phase it the same way but I honestly not sure what that means. I probably should go with the 2018 specific flange instead of the Ford Performance one correct? Thanks

 

[JohnVallo]

@JohnVallo If I decide to put the 2018 pinion flange on the 2016 3.55 carrier do you know any tips or tricks? Does it need to go on a certain way or be clocked? I read the instructions for the Ford Performance pinion flange swap and it said to phase it the same way but I honestly not sure what that means. I probably should go with the 2018 specific flange instead of the Ford Performance one correct? Thanks

Being a Ford Registered Technician (Driveline Specialist) for over 17 years, I have done hundreds and hundreds of rear-end overhauls. Having said that, I also have seen almost every combination of factory recommended repair methods, as well as a lot of non factory recommended repair methods and short cuts.
What they mean by: " phase it the same way" is: The end of the pinion shaft (the threaded end, has 2 notches at the very end. Ford stakes the pinion nut into these 2 notches from the factory so the pinion nut won't come loose. These two notches have an index relationship with the flange itself, being there are 2 notches on the outside of the flange also, this is what they mean by the phase. The phasing is most important when using the same parts for reassembly, (So you get the flange back on the pinion in the same exact location). When you are replacing either the flange or ring & pinion, the phasing becomes less important.
No doubt the 2015-2017 IRS Mustang Driveshaft to Pinion flange was uniquely balanced. With the introduction of the 2018 model, a greatly improved pinion flange was introduced.
This 2018 pinion flange had some impressive improvements:
A. An anodized finish
B. A tighter-spec balance (Zero balance)
C. Painted on the outside, with part number markings.
I believe the part number is still: HR3Z-4851-B
So, your last question: I would go with the 2018 specific flange.
tips or tricks: You will probably need a puller to get the flange off of the pinion shaft. At least all of the ones I have done, needed a puller. (Do not hammer on the flange)
Getting the same preload as original is the most important thing you need to accomplish.
Some mechanics can feel the preload, and get as close as possible without any measurements.
Myself, I have a (beam-style) inch-pound torque wrench I use for the before and after, But I have also done many without.
Other things to consider: This job can be done by simply removing the old flange, installing the new flange (and new pinion nut always), tightening the nut until the preload is the same as original, and all is well.
Others say they prefer to remove the flange, pinion seal, thrust washer, bearing, and collapsible spacer. The only problem with replacing the collapsible spacer in the S550 is you have to remove the differential from the housing because the spacer won't come out unless you remove pinion shaft from housing. (The spacer won't clear the front pinion bearing cup, therefore it can't be removed from the front)
Using a new collapsible spacer (crush sleeve), pinion seal, and pinion nut, reassembling and tightening the nut until the correct preload is achieved. (It will take a lot of torque to collapse the new spacer, I have needed a long breaker bar with a jack handle extension to collapse mine. You will need a good 1/2" drive 1 1/8" socket for the torqueing of the pinion nut. You also will most likely need a pinion flange holding tool (NOT a good idea to tighten the pinion nut with an impact wrench !)

Here are some other links I have discussed on the same subject:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/pinion-flange-removal-install.100875/#post-2198225
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/gear-change-from-4-11-rear-gear-to-4-56-in-my-gt350.104766/
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/differential-flanges-any-experts.120933/#post-2525947


Specs from the Ford Factory Manual
Pinion preload: 16-29 lb-in

I hope this helps, my friend

 

[bubbasneed]

@JohnVallo Thanks for the info. I will buy the 2018 flange and a new pinion nut. I am fairly confident that I can do the swap.

So just to be clear, the 2 notches on the flange should be lined up with the two notches on the pinion shaft like in a straight line? If you look at my post 3 i have a picture of both and the 3.55 isn't close to that it is almost 90 degrees off but the notch on the 2018 3.15 is really close to lining up.

I think the new flange will make a big difference, and I shouldn't have that vibration anymore.

Thanks again.

 

[JohnVallo]

@JohnVallo Thanks for the info. I will buy the 2018 flange and a new pinion nut. I am fairly confident that I can do the swap.

So just to be clear, the 2 notches on the flange should be lined up with the two notches on the pinion shaft like in a straight line? If you look at my post 3 i have a picture of both and the 3.55 isn't close to that it is almost 90 degrees off but the notch on the 2018 3.15 is really close to lining up.

I think the new flange will make a big difference, and I shouldn't have that vibration anymore.

Thanks again.

You phase the new flange the same as the phase on the one you are replacing, (The same relationship).
Not necessarily in a straight line.
You will put the new flange on the 3.55 the exact same: "almost 90 degrees off", don't pay any attention to the 3.15 phasing.
Honestly on the new 2018 flange, the phasing isn't really that important, but it never hurts to try to follow the written instructions.

 

[K4fxd]

Looking I only see one flange for 15 to 20 automatic rears.

https://www.cjponyparts.com/ford-pe...sion-kit-v6-ecoboost-gt-2015-2020/p/M4851M8A/

I'm going the opposite way of the OP, I have a 17 car and want to install an 18 pumpkin. Will it need the pinion flange off my 17 to work properly? Both rears are from auto cars.

 

[bubbasneed]

Looking I only see one flange for 15 to 20 automatic rears.

https://www.cjponyparts.com/ford-pe...sion-kit-v6-ecoboost-gt-2015-2020/p/M4851M8A/

I'm going the opposite way of the OP, I have a 17 car and want to install an 18 pumpkin. Will it need the pinion flange off my 17 to work properly? Both rears are from auto cars.

@K4fxd I am not sure, it should bolt up okay since both flanges are out of a automatic. The flange that is sold by Ford Performance looks different than the one on my 2018 housing. If you do the swap and want to sell your 2018 automatic flange I would be interested in buying it. It looks like you are in NKY and I am from the Cincinnati area so I could meet up with you. What gears are in the housing you are removing and installing in your 2017? Do you already have the 2018 Pumpkin?

 

[K4fxd]

I've got the pumpkin. I'm going from 3.15 to 3.55.

Calling around Ford does make 2 automatic flanges. The old style, 15 to 17 is discontinued and the new style 18+ replaces it.

 

[Dominant1]

Is this a stock driveshaft or aftermarket driveshaft connecting to the replacement diff? Im interested because i just bought used 3:15 diff but its the same exact year gt car as mine and i have a dynotech aluminum shaft which doesn’t vibrate at any speed. Going to replace my original 3:55’s with them.

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