PP2 vs. Lund Tune - how much am I leaving on the table?

[mikes2017gt]

Been curious about this for a while now and am finally looking into it.

I have the PP2. Been happy with it. But I want more. However, I don't want to sacrifice driveability, so no PP3/IM swap/E85. If I could afford a Whipple I wouldn't be posting this. ;)

My thought process is this: I know the Ford Perf PP2 tune is a safe tune for 91 octane. I have access to very good 93 octane everywhere I drive and it's what I use daily anyway. I've got a decent catback to help get the dead dinosaurs out and the suspension mods to put the power down, so I can't help but feel I'm leaving some performance on the table.

My GT is my DD, and getting stuck in traffic when it's 100-degrees outside is the norm here. So I can't have some top-end only, spitty, lumpy tune.

My car idles and runs like stock (plus some additional oomph and better throttle response from the PP2) and that "good behavior" is a mandatory requirement for any new tune.

Based on all that, is there a benefit to moving to a Lund tune/nGauge? Thanks for your time!

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[EFI]

Do you think spending an extra $800 is worth for 8hp?

If so, go with the Lund as it will pick up power for sure. But don't expect to see double digit hp gains.

 

[whalesalad]

Agree with EFI. Unless you're interested in putting E85 in... I don't think a 93 octane Lund vs PP2 engine map is going to be worth the cost of the nGauge device and the tune.

 

[Loki-GT]

Been curious about this for a while now and am finally looking into it.

I have the PP2. Been happy with it. But I want more. However, I don't want to sacrifice driveability, so no PP3/IM swap/E85. If I could afford a Whipple I wouldn't be posting this. ;)

My thought process is this: I know the Ford Perf PP2 tune is a safe tune for 91 octane. I have access to very good 93 octane everywhere I drive and it's what I use daily anyway. I've got a decent catback to help get the dead dinosaurs out and the suspension mods to put the power down, so I can't help but feel I'm leaving some performance on the table.

My GT is my DD, and getting stuck in traffic when it's 100-degrees outside is the norm here. So I can't have some top-end only, spitty, lumpy tune.

My car idles and runs like stock (plus some additional oomph and better throttle response from the PP2) and that "good behavior" is a mandatory requirement for any new tune.

Based on all that, is there a benefit to moving to a Lund tune/nGauge? Thanks for your time!

Good question, Chris explained I would see a power increase on my stock 18 GT with the nGuage/Tune on 93 octane. Will it be $594.00 worth of performance, not sure but it will also allow me to log while driving and hopefully find out why the wrench pops up.

Others have stated their tunes make the cars drive incredible for daily driving so I can't see how it wouldn't stay awesome or better.

 

[mikes2017gt]

Thanks guys. That's kind of what I figured. A Lund tune would be great if I was still stock, but as I'm not, I didn't think it would be much of a gain over PP2...but you don't know unless you ask. :cheers:

Thanks again. I'll try to put a few bucks into the Whipple Fund this weekend.

 

[TheLion]

Thanks guys. That's kind of what I figured. A Lund tune would be great if I was still stock, but as I'm not, I didn't think it would be much of a gain over PP2...but you don't know unless you ask. :cheers:

Thanks again. I'll try to put a few bucks into the Whipple Fund this weekend.

What about trading up to a 2018 and then a tune for that? Or the Charger / Challenger R/T Scat Packs with the 6.4L, they run 485 HP stock (albeit they are also bricks at 4,400 lbs). Although from what I"ve been hearing (possibly just rumors) the 2018's don't have a whole lot left in them on pump gas just like the LT1 6.2 doesn't either. IF you want more NA you need to change fuel type.

A Whipple or any other super charger with your 5.0 would beat the pants off of anything NA + Pump Gas currently on the market unless you go high dollar exotic like Koenigsegg, Lotus, Ferrari, BMR, Mercedes etc. which I'm guessing is not inside your budget.

 

[UPRSteve]

You are going to see a much better power curve in the middle rpm range with a Lund tune. Even on pump, its going to have a ifference. And he isn't going to tune it for just WOT. You are going to get a good all around driving car with a Lund tune. You will not regret it.

 

[mikes2017gt]

Whipple is not in the budget right now, unfortunately.

AFA buying a different car: I wanted a Mustang GT, not a Challenger, which is actually a Chrysler 300 with a 2-door body, or a Charger, which is actually a gussied-up Chrysler 300, so that's what I bought.

I originally actually wanted a GT350 and was willing to pay MSRP for one. Oh, how ignorant I was. In Feb 2017 when I bought my GT you could not touch a GT350 in my city for less than $85K and they could not keep them in stock. No way I'm having a $85K car for a DD. I'd be afraid to drive it. Nor could I afford the payments. Anyway, back OT.

I've got over $4K in mods into the car already, so trading it in for a 2018 is not an option. As much as I dig the digital dash on the 2018's, I happen to like the 2015-2017 body style better. I think the 2018's are darn good looking...just not as nice as the '15-'17s. I like what Ford did with the 18's with the improved engine and quad/active exhaust. Snazzy. BTW, I have seen the digital dash mod thread...still too many bugs being worked out. I'll look again in 6 months.

I may email Lund and see what they say. At least in my car, with the PP2, power comes on at 3K and then past 5K the motor gets to the rev limiter very quickly with a mad rush at the top, which makes keeping out of the limiter that much harder. Would be nice to have a beefier midrange, which is where most of my driving is done. I like the top end for the highway on-ramp charges.

 

[AlmostFamous]

I may email Lund and see what they say. At least in my car, with the PP2, power comes on at 3K and then past 5K the motor gets to the rev limiter very quickly with a mad rush at the top, which makes keeping out of the limiter that much harder. Would be nice to have a beefier midrange, which is where most of my driving is done. I like the top end for the highway on-ramp charges.

Keep in mind Lund is not a PP2/GT350 TB friendly tuner. If you're dead set on a Lund tune, you would be better off going back to the stock TB. As others have stated, if you're going to make the plunge into an aftermarket tune and void your warranty, you mite as well get the 47lb fuel injectors and go E85. There's a huge jump in power throughout the powerband when you switch to E85.

 

[Thub]

Is there an ethanol sensor in these cars from the factory or does an e85 tune lock you into e85 all the time? (Asking specifically about 2018)

 

[GTBOB]

Is there an ethanol sensor in these cars from the factory or does an e85 tune lock you into e85 all the time? (Asking specifically about 2018)

There is not an ethanol sensor on Ford vehicles, including the '18. The o2 sensors are widebands and can sniff the alcohol content. If you run a ethanol only tune, you can only run ethanol...pretty simple. If you were to put gasoline in with that tune, it will run extremely rich and most likely ping a lot because of the advanced timing you can get away with ethanol. Get a flex fuel tune, and run whatever you want.

 

[re-rx7]

PP2 OR PP3 are within spitting diff of other pump gas tunes.

 

[TheLion]

PP2 OR PP3 are within spitting diff of other pump gas tunes.

That's what the OP was asking in general, there's not much benefit going to an after market tuner on pump gas over what FP is currently offering for the 2015-2017 GT's. If he's wanting big mid-range punch, he needs either shorter gearing with the PP2 (I think he has 3.31's, his sig doesn't say PP GT, just Manual) to get a little higher up in the mid range when merging or go to a whole new platform.

Honestly however, going to a SS with the LT1 6.2 isn't going to buy you anything but more low end torque either (I see he's not a fan of the big boat Dodge offerings). A Power Pack 2 5.0's power band is literally almost identical to the LT1 6.2's just shifted 500 RPM higher. I mean IDENTICAL wheel HP for wheel HP.

Here are some Area Comparrisons (a 4,000 RPM rev range) of the different Power Packs relative to a stock LT1 6.2 in a 2016 SS 6M:

The SS is geared taller however, so unless you geared it down (shorter final drive), you won't have any more access to the mid-range than with a PP GT. Based on the OP's signature I'm assuming he might be running 3.31's which are a bit tall for acceleration even with PP2 power band. Huge mid-range punch honestly is only going to come from a Super Charger if you want to stay on 93 pump gas. Even E85 isn't a "massive" increase. Noticeable I'm sure, but nothing spectacular compared for FI.

3.55 or 3.73's are good for Manuals and give you a decent rev range in 2nd and 3rd with stock tire diameters. You probably couldn't tell much of a difference between 3.55 and 3.73, but you can tell the difference between 3.31 and 3.73 in a GT or even the Ecoboost.

I think a 3.73 Torsen diff would be the best bet unless he has a PP GT and not a base. That will get you higher up in the rev range. I typically am at about 4~4.5k RPM when rounding a curved exit ramp before I can really punch it. Acceleration is VERY strong with 3.73's at that RPM range with my Power Pack 2. At some point your at the limits of 93 pump gas and starting to really sacrifice reliability for barely noticeable gains...or you have to go to more exotic fuels or FI.

 

[CNCLester]

I can't say with Lund, but I went from pp2 to vmp and gained .18 in et. I did loose the Rev match downshifting on the 6r80. In the end it was not worth the money. Took 5 revisions to dial it in.
If you want better mid-range I'd save coin and go suprecharger.
Just my .02.

 

[CNCLester]

I also second what TheLion said. You find a 3.73 diff out of a performance pack car and it will wake up nicely.

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