A10 tranny lugging in 10th - anyone else?

Matco · Apr 25, 2018

you'd be surprised how sensitive some engines can be to octane, especially with the higher compression ratio. the lower octane combined with higher compression is more susceptible to pre-detonation and pinging, I know its not a car engine but on my dirt bike, honda requires 91-93 octane to be used, sometimes when 91 is not available I would used 87 and it would run terrible, throw a fresh tank of 91 in it and its great. Its not a apples to apples but the engine principle is the same

Loki-GT · Apr 25, 2018

c-rizzle said:
REALLY? :headbonk:

Problems:

10th gear is like double overdrive, made for fuel conservation

3.15 gears are for fuel economy.

You're using 87 octane, so your missing probably 10hp+

Solutions:

use S mode, change gears manual, or change to Sport/Track modes if you want it to be more responsive (and come out or not go in to such a high gear)

Should have bought a 3.55 gear car

use higher octane gas, and the car will feel a little zippier

I'm guessing you didn't read the problem.

Loki-GT · Apr 25, 2018

Matco said:
you'd be surprised how sensitive some engines can be to octane, especially with the higher compression ratio. the lower octane combined with higher compression is more susceptible to pre-detonation and pinging, I know its not a car engine but on my dirt bike, honda requires 91-93 octane to be used, sometimes when 91 is not available I would used 87 and it would run terrible, throw a fresh tank of 91 in it and its great. Its not a apples to apples but the engine principle is the same

Keep in mind they use a combo of port and direct injection, also they added 2 more knock sensors. Ford knows how sensitive a 12.01 compression is, the fact they could get 87 octane to be acceptable in all kinds of conditions is amazing. However the OP is trying to figure out why his A10 isn't dropping a gear like mine or other A10 18's are.

I do think octane will help but not with the A10 dropping a gear when it should but maybe the programming changes with 93, unsure. I still think he should unplug the battery and let it wipe out the learned portion and try again. If it continues he needs to go to Ford and have it checked out.

Matco · Apr 25, 2018

Loki-GT said:
Keep in mind they use a combo of port and direct injection, also they added 2 more knock sensors. Ford knows how sensitive a 12.01 compression is, the fact they could get 87 octane to be acceptable in all kinds of conditions is amazing. However the OP is trying to figure out why his A10 isn't dropping a gear like mine or other A10 18's are.

I do think octane will help but not with the A10 dropping a gear when it should but maybe the programming changes with 93, unsure. I still think he should unplug the battery and let it wipe out the learned portion and try again. If it continues he needs to go to Ford and have it checked out.

Agreed, battery reset would be a good first step if the OP is going to keep running 87

DickR · Apr 25, 2018

FYI I drove from Raleigh to middle Tennessee today up and down hills in D. Trans downshifted easily when needed or wanted with what seems like an appropriate amount of throttle to ME :-). Always smooth. Mostly I 40 at speed limits and a little higher. Nominal 477 miles and computer says almost 28 mpg on 275/35x19 RE71R tires which are NOT low rolling resistance tires. Since the tires are shorter than oem the actual miles are somewhat lower. Premium fuel "for the record" since probably not relevant. GT PP. 3.55 gears. Note that there were a few "trapped behind a slow vehicle then accelerate from slow speed"" situations where more throttle and more gears were needed but those were smooth also. Only paddle use was for engine braking in D to experiment.

Rash · Apr 25, 2018

I’ll try 93 next tank and the battery reset when I get a chance. I honestly think it’s just a combination of eco-calibration causing too low rpm/too low speed in 10th along with 3.15 gears. Perhaps 93 would provide slightly better power to downshift more easily with the pedal - we’ll see.

I doubt it matters, but I upgraded to 20” wheels, so the speedo is slightly off, but I don’t see how that would affect anything. Just putting that out there in case someone thinks it would contribute to the issue somehow.

Freedom · Apr 25, 2018

UAmach1 said:
I'm noticing a trend in cars:
Q50 RedSport
CRV
Altima
Civic

All of those I(and others) get better MPG in D, Sport or S+ than in Eco mode. I'm starting to think it's due to S and S+ modes making it easier to modulate the throttle.

Maybe Eco/D works for "normal" drivers, but if you know how to properly modulate gas and brake it actually makes it worse.

did someone say crank up those Epa Mpg numbers?!?!

cobrapatrol · Apr 26, 2018

I experienced a similar 10th gear lugging yesterday in commuting traffic while driving uphill (D mode). The engine was stuck at about 1600-1700 RPM. A stab of the throttle wasn't possible and some gentle prodding with the throttle had no effect. I paddled it down a couple of gears to get out of the situation but it's not logical to be running up to 10th gear in that situation anyway. In our other cars (Scion FR-S for example) it's easiest to go to Manual mode and keep the tranny in the same gear when you expect to be tipping in and out of the throttle constantly at low speeds or climbing on a curvy road. I'm sure that S would serve better.

Loki-GT · Apr 26, 2018

Rash said:
I’ll try 93 next tank and the battery reset when I get a chance. I honestly think it’s just a combination of eco-calibration causing too low rpm/too low speed in 10th along with 3.15 gears. Perhaps 93 would provide slightly better power to downshift more easily with the pedal - we’ll see.

I doubt it matters, but I upgraded to 20” wheels, so the speedo is slightly off, but I don’t see how that would affect anything. Just putting that out there in case someone thinks it would contribute to the issue somehow.

I believe they have an aggressive lock on the converter in 10th gear but in cars with 3:31 or 3:55's it's less pronounced. I could be completely full of it as well but a call to my Ford dealer was useless as their response was "I don't know".

For the speedo the height of the tire is the determination I believe. If your height with 20" is the same as the previous wheel/tire you should be fine, just measure the height of both. Another way is to use your phone and a speed app to check how close it is to your speedo.

Rash · Apr 26, 2018

cobrapatrol said:
A stab of the throttle wasn't possible ...

That's a very good point. Sometimes it not safe to jab at the throttle - you don't want the car lurching forward into the car in front of you. But light throttle isn't enough in 10th at 43-44 mph - it just lugs. Ideally Ford should recalibrate it so it downshifts into 9th at about 46-47 mph, not 42 like it does now. I don't get the lugging in 10th at 46-47 mph as I do at 42-43. Below 45 mph just seems to low a speed for 10th gear. Yea I could paddle shift it, but it's an AUTOMATIC transmission - I shouldn't HAVE to shift manually if I don't want to.

Interestingly, the manual (p 148) recommends upshifting from 9-10 at 49 mph for best fuel economy (for 3.15 rear). Yet my car will often shift into 10th at 46-47, and won't let go when decelerating until 42.

Anyway, I'll just paddle shift or use S mode and live with it. At least it doesn't seem to be just my car, and that was my main concern. There's always a tune I guess if it bothers me enough. I'm already getting used to it, so no big deal.

Loki-GT · Apr 26, 2018

cobrapatrol said:
I experienced a similar 10th gear lugging yesterday in commuting traffic while driving uphill (D mode). The engine was stuck at about 1600-1700 RPM. A stab of the throttle wasn't possible and some gentle prodding with the throttle had no effect. I paddled it down a couple of gears to get out of the situation but it's not logical to be running up to 10th gear in that situation anyway. In our other cars (Scion FR-S for example) it's easiest to go to Manual mode and keep the tranny in the same gear when you expect to be tipping in and out of the throttle constantly at low speeds or climbing on a curvy road. I'm sure that S would serve better.

"Stuck" at 1600-1700?? Wow, do you have 3.15's as well?

Loki-GT · Apr 26, 2018

Rash said:
That's a very good point. Sometimes it not safe to jab at the throttle - you don't want the car lurching forward into the car in front of you. But light throttle isn't enough in 10th at 43-44 mph - it just lugs. Ideally Ford should recalibrate it so it downshifts into 9th at about 46-47 mph, not 42 like it does now. I don't get the lugging in 10th at 46-47 mph as I do at 42-43. Below 45 mph just seems to low a speed for 10th gear. Yea I could paddle shift it, but it's an AUTOMATIC transmission - I shouldn't HAVE to shift manually if I don't want to.

Interestingly, the manual (p 148) recommends upshifting from 9-10 at 49 mph for best fuel economy (for 3.15 rear). Yet my car will often shift into 10th at 46-47, and won't let go when decelerating until 42.

Anyway, I'll just paddle shift or use S mode and live with it. At least it doesn't seem to be just my car, and that was my main concern. There's always a tune I guess if it bothers me enough. I'm already getting used to it, so no big deal.

Rash, this does sound like a possible issue with the taller geared cars, it would be nice if somebody from Ford could comment.

When do you plan on unplugging the battery?

Rash · Apr 26, 2018

Loki-GT said:
Rash, this does sound like a possible issue with the taller geared cars, it would be nice if somebody from Ford could comment.

When do you plan on unplugging the battery?

MAYBE this weekend, but with 2 kids, a house, a dog, a business, etc I never know what will happen. I didn't even mention the better half.

Loki-GT · Apr 26, 2018

Rash said:
MAYBE this weekend, but with 2 kids, a house, a dog, a business, etc I never know what will happen. I didn't even mention the better half.

Oh brother do I understand. :lol: Thankfully the wife supports me jumping into the car once in a while to get some stress out. We don't have kids but we have a lot of nieces and nephews plus I manage a 5 office cancer clinic network by myself so being able to just get in the car and hit some country roads is really helpful, I almost have a 1,000 miles on the car already after just 3 weeks tomorrow.

More so than getting onto my motorcycle. :crazy:

gmupatriot · Apr 26, 2018

I have a 2018 GT with 3.55 and A10. I hear you OP when you say it lugs in 10th gear. However, I can get the car to downshift rather easy with a slight push of the gas pedal. The response of the downshift is better when cruising at 55+ mph (kicks down from 10 to 8 for good passing power) and not so great when doing 45 mph in 10th gear, however, it is never as bad as your experience. Reset the ECU by disconnecting the battery as others have suggested. I hope that resolves this for you. I have a hunch that having 3.55 helps a little compared to 3.15 in yours but I have no way to confirm.

A10 tranny lugging in 10th - anyone else?

Matco

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Loki-GT

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Loki-GT

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Matco

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DickR

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Rash

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Freedom

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cobrapatrol

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Loki-GT

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Rash

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