6G Sponsors - Please build quicker steering ratio/response for S550

valentinoamoro · Feb 5, 2018

The S550 has moved the mainstream Stang from a drag and cruiser to a proper handling car - EXCEPT there are a few issues. Most of these (wheel hop, roll etc) have been extensively addressed by vendors here (thanks!) and most of us have lapped these products up.

One last area remains unresolved - our beloved Stangs have a 16.0:1 steering ratio. Quoting [MENTION=10281]BmacIL[/MENTION] - "The 16:1 ratio is the angle change of the steering wheel to the steer wheels.

16:1 is a slow ratio for a performance car, but fairly typical for the average passenger car/sedan." For example, my RAV 4 has a 14.5:1 ratio.:headbonk:

Proper performance cars like the Evo X (13:1), Alfa Romeo Guila (11.8:1), M3 (12.5:1) have MUCH more response steering, leading to an overall better feeling of agility.

There could be different ways to solve this - steering rack, column, tie rod changes etc. Please look into addressing this - us handling guys will be all over a reasonably priced solution that gets us under 13:1 (heck, I'll take 13.5 or less). Bonus points for removing any soft bushings in the steering linkages. Ford has apparently revised the steering ratio for the PP2 'Tremor Package' in the S550 so this can be done.

Tagging [MENTION=25806]SteedaTech[/MENTION] and [MENTION=9985]BMR Tech[/MENTION]

P.S - a lot of us are running wider tires, changed our toe settings etc (basically, max'ed out what we can do with the existing options) and want a more direct solution. Have $$, will spend! :cheers:

Cobra Jet · Feb 5, 2018

I’m pretty sure that based on which S550 (option/wheel packages), the Performance Pack equipped models have different racks than say a base model with 18” rims. Someone confirm or deny by posting actual Ford rack part numbers.

Since the S550 rack is electronic assisted, here’s some thoughts:

1) Is there another current Ford product that uses a similar steering rack with a quicker ratio than what is available for the S550? I know older Mustang steering racks were 15:1 ratio.

2) Is an update needed in the S550 software for the electric rack to respond better? Maybe someone can see if there are placeholders in the As Built datasets where they can be modified using Forscan?

3) Check out Howe Racing’s steering quickeners: http://howeracing.com/index.php/stealth-steering-quickener.html

4) Has anyone developed a manual steering rack for the S550? I know folks who use these cars solely as drag racing, road racing or autoX, like to save weight and get rid of “nannies” and want more of a raw feel of the road and how the car reacts. Manual racks were really popular with the Mustang platforms for years. Not sure if it’s been a thought for the S550...
EDIT: Found that Watson Racing offers a K-member that can accept an electronic rack or manual rack:
http://www.watsonracing.com/s550-lightweight-k-member-kit/

5) What about the retrofitting the BOSS 302R steering rack available through Ford Performance: https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-3200-EPAS

6) Ford FR500C/FR500S steering rack (would require modifications for getting it to work on an S550): https://www.kohrmotorsports.com/pro...ing-mustang-fr500s-fr500c-race-steering-rack/

Freedom · Feb 5, 2018

reviews love the gt350s steering response. is it any diff?

valentinoamoro · Feb 7, 2018

Cobra Jet said:
I’m pretty sure that based on which S550 (option/wheel packages), the Performance Pack equipped models have different racks than say a base model with 18” rims. Someone confirm or deny by posting actual Ford rack part numbers.

Since the S550 rack is electronic assisted, here’s some thoughts:

1) Is there another current Ford product that uses a similar steering rack with a quicker ratio than what is available for the S550? I know older Mustang steering racks were 15:1 ratio.

2) Is an update needed in the S550 software for the electric rack to respond better? Maybe someone can see if there are placeholders in the As Built datasets where they can be modified using Forscan?

3) Check out Howe Racing’s steering quickeners: http://howeracing.com/index.php/stealth-steering-quickener.html

4) Has anyone developed a manual steering rack for the S550? I know folks who use these cars solely as drag racing, road racing or autoX, like to save weight and get rid of “nannies” and want more of a raw feel of the road and how the car reacts. Manual racks were really popular with the Mustang platforms for years. Not sure if it’s been a thought for the S550...
EDIT: Found that Watson Racing offers a K-member that can accept an electronic rack or manual rack:
http://www.watsonracing.com/s550-lightweight-k-member-kit/

5) What about the retrofitting the BOSS 302R steering rack available through Ford Performance: https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-3200-EPAS

6) Ford FR500C/FR500S steering rack (would require modifications for getting it to work on an S550): https://www.kohrmotorsports.com/pro...ing-mustang-fr500s-fr500c-race-steering-rack/

Helpful response! Thanks.

#1, the new PP2 package will have a faster rack as I mentioned above. Hopefully, will work with the 2015-2017s (it should).

#2, I dont think the electrical assist has anything to do with ratio, just effort.

#3 - interesting. This might be the ticket. Have you any experience or knowledge on these and their compatibility with the S550? I'll reach out to them.

#4 - Manual rack is too much for me - esp on a car this heavy with wide wheels. It's my DD

$5 - Wow, thats a good idea as well. There isnt any technical data I could find on whether it would fit the S550 and work with the Electronic assist there, or the ratio. Also, why are they saying this is not intended for street?

Cheers,

valentinoamoro · Feb 7, 2018

Freedom said:
reviews love the gt350s steering response. is it any diff?

Some changes, the R has an aluminum knuckle. Also, the wider front track and likely more aggressive alignment can help a lot. Ratio is the same as the S550 (actually slightly slower).

I've read mixed reviews on the 350s response. Most of the favorable mentions are for the R, which has that aluminum knuckle.

Coyote Red · Feb 7, 2018

My 2014 Cyclone would turn around in the street, my 2016 base GT won't and it really bothers me. I can tell a difference in 1.5 neg camber and spec. also "comfort" steering feels more responsive to me than "sport" setting.

Grintch · Feb 8, 2018

The steering ratio is not a great measure of steering quickness. Turns lock to lock, and maybe turning circle are much better.

Using the hated MT test numbers
The Camaro has 2.8 vs the Mustang's 2.5 turn lock to lock
The Camaro has a 38 vs the Mustang's 40 ft turning radius

So essentially they are a wash, in general I would classify anything lower than 3 turns lock to lock as quick steering.

Also note that quick steering does NOT mean good steering feel. In particular adding a steering quickener tends to reduce the steering feel because you have more stuff between you and the road. I had one of the Coleman steering quickeners that someone mentioned above on a track car, and it didn't improve the feel. And I ended up swapping out the faster 2:1 ratio for a 1.5:1 ratio.

BmacIL · Feb 8, 2018

Grintch said:
The steering ratio is not a great measure of steering quickness. Turns lock to lock, and maybe turning circle are much better.

Using the hated MT test numbers
The Camaro has 2.8 vs the Mustang's 2.5 turn lock to lock
The Camaro has a 38 vs the Mustang's 40 ft turning radius

So essentially they are a wash, in general I would classify anything lower than 3 turns lock to lock as quick steering.

Also note that quick steering does NOT mean good steering feel. In particular adding a steering quickener tends to reduce the steering feel because you have more stuff between you and the road. I had one of the Coleman steering quickeners that someone mentioned above on a track car, and it didn't improve the feel. And I ended up swapping out the faster 2:1 ratio for a 1.5:1 ratio.

1.5:1 is a faster ratio than 2:1...

The Mustang has a 16:1 steering wheel to steered wheel ratio. This is worse than your average family car (the Camry and Accord are 13.8:1 and 13.4:1, respectively). I would like to have a quicker ratio. The turning circle is actually fine, it just takes so much lock to get there (for a performance car).

Grimace427 · Feb 8, 2018

You can't directly compare steering ratios across different makes and models due to differing suspension/steering geometries. The length of the steering arm on the knuckle directly affects the amount the wheels are turned when steering. Likely other factors as well like wheel offset and tire scrub but those aren't as easily described.

BmacIL · Feb 8, 2018

Grimace427 said:
You can't directly compare steering ratios across different makes and models due to differing suspension/steering geometries. The length of the steering arm on the knuckle directly affects the amount the wheels are turned when steering. Likely other factors as well like wheel offset and tire scrub but those aren't as easily described.

The ratio includes those things. We're not talking about the rack ratio only, rather the total steering wheel to steered wheel ratio.

Grintch · Feb 9, 2018

BmacIL said:
1.5:1 is a faster ratio than 2:1...

The Mustang has a 16:1 steering wheel to steered wheel ratio. This is worse than your average family car (the Camry and Accord are 13.8:1 and 13.4:1, respectively). I would like to have a quicker ratio. The turning circle is actually fine, it just takes so much lock to get there (for a performance car).

Not with a steering quickener.

A 2:1 quickener made my 4 turns lock to lock rack into a 2 turns lock to lock system.
1.5:1 made it a 3 turns lock to lock setup.

And when was the last time you heard anyone say anything good about the steering feel of a Camry? Don't be fooled, one of the tactics they take when replacing better feeling hydraulic power steering with (crappy feeling) electric power steering is too speed up the steering to help provide some semblance of a sporty feel. Semblance being the key word, I much prefer actual steering feel.

Kinda like how setting to your steering to Sport increases the effort, but doesn't increase the feedback.

P. S. 2017 Porsche Cayman S (Motor Trends #2 best handling car) has exactly the same 2.5 turns lock to lock of the Mustang. So saying it doesn't have quick enough steering for a sports/sporty car doesn't hold water.

BmacIL · Feb 9, 2018

Grintch said:
Not with a steering quickener.

A 2:1 quickener made my 4 turns lock to lock rack into a 2 turns lock to lock system.
1.5:1 made it a 3 turns lock to lock setup.

And when was the last time you heard anyone say anything good about the steering feel of a Camry? Don't be fooled, one of the tactics they take when replacing better feeling hydraulic power steering with (crappy feeling) electric power steering is too speed up the steering to help provide some semblance of a sporty feel. Semblance being the key word, I much prefer actual steering feel.

Kinda like how setting to your steering to Sport increases the effort, but doesn't increase the feedback.

P. S. 2017 Porsche Cayman S (Motor Trends #2 best handling car) has exactly the same 2.5 turns lock to lock of the Mustang. So saying it doesn't have quick enough steering for a sports/sporty car doesn't hold water.

2.5 turns is only relevant if the turning radius of whatever you're comparing to is also the same. 2.5 turns for a car that has a 30 ft turning radius is way different than 2.5 turns for one with 40 ft. Hence, the overall ratio. The Camry example is not at all in reference to steering feel or feedback, but rather rate of change. Many performance cars have much quicker overall ratios.

It doesn't have quick enough steering to me and it seems at least a few others on this forum. Is it far off? No. I know why, and that's because it's used as a DD for the vast majority of buyers, and the vast majority of those will never see an autocross, for instance. For that type of duty, it's more than fine.

Grintch · Feb 9, 2018

The bigger issue is it doesn't have particularly good feel. It's not bad, but not really good. The 6th Gen Camaro is better (with arguably slower steering). Yes the Camry and CRV, and plenty of crappy econo boxes may have faster steering. That doesn't mean they have better steering. It's like the pedal commander and similar factory sport modes that just turn up the gain on the DBW throttle to fool people into thinking the engine has better throttle response.

But from a performance aftermarket standpoint, replacing steering racks is costly, and few people are likely to do it. Maybe tuning would help given it is EPS, and the calibration/software from many reports can make quite a difference to the feel. Maybe talk with Ford racing about the differences between the GT, GT350, and GT350R hardware and software. Swapping some GT350 parts is likely to be a more affordable solution than engineering an all new rack.

As someone who actually had a car with a steering quickener, I wouldn't recommend using them as a standard hot rod component. They are best left to oval track guys limited to slow, OEM manual steering boxes (mostly not rack & pinion) by the class rules.

BmacIL · Feb 9, 2018

Grintch said:
The bigger issue is it doesn't have particularly good feel. It's not bad, but not really good. The 6th Gen Camaro is better (with arguably slower steering). Yes the Camry and CRV, and plenty of crappy econo boxes may have faster steering. That doesn't mean they have better steering. It's like the pedal commander and similar factory sport modes that just turn up the gain on the DBW throttle to fool people into thinking the engine has better throttle response.

But from a performance aftermarket standpoint, replacing steering racks is costly, and few people are likely to do it. Maybe tuning would help given it is EPS, and the calibration/software from many reports can make quite a difference to the feel. Maybe talk with Ford racing about the differences between the GT, GT350, and GT350R hardware and software. Swapping some GT350 parts is likely to be a more affordable solution than engineering an all new rack.

As someone who actually had a car with a steering quickener, I wouldn't recommend using them as a standard hot rod component. They are best left to oval track guys limited to slow, OEM manual steering boxes (mostly not rack & pinion) by the class rules.

Thus why I'm waiting to hear the details on the 18 PP level 2, which in the press release has a quicker steering ratio.

GT-SV · Feb 9, 2018

I'd prefer slightly quicker steering ratio on the GT personally.

6G Sponsors - Please build quicker steering ratio/response for S550

Do you think your S550's steering response and feel is perfect?

No - it can be better

Yes - it's perfect the way it is

valentinoamoro

Well-Known Member

Cobra Jet

Well-Known Member

Freedom

Well-Known Member

valentinoamoro

Well-Known Member

valentinoamoro

Well-Known Member

Coyote Red

Well-Known Member

Grintch

Well-Known Member

BmacIL

Enginerd

Grimace427

Well-Known Member

BmacIL

Enginerd

Grintch

Well-Known Member

BmacIL

Enginerd

Grintch

Well-Known Member

BmacIL

Enginerd

GT-SV

Well-Known Member